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Re: England Map [D] - Update Mar 25th - p1/12
Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 6:39 pm
by Teflon Kris
'Regions'
It is a good point that consistency is needed. However, that is a wider debate. For this map, it is clear which meaning is meant and how the bonus system works.
Bonus System
The Wales bonus system seems unique and is really interesting.
This system is different, a change from the standard bonus region/continent system yet not too complicated, which is fitting with the general style of the map. I can see it working. I would personally prefer to have a neutral in the north-east (sorry, I;m not sure of the outcome of previous discussion on this).
As it is, it is fine, I cant forsee any problem with it. Introducing something more complex may lead you down the London road again where you decide to return back to the current format. If you do try anything different, maybe an idea would be to add industrial icons and a bonus for holding all, or some of, the late nineteenth century industrial areas/ports (e.g. parts of yorkshire, northumberland, lancashire, middlesex, west midlands etc.)? A bit like a capitals bonus. Just an idea, I'm not sure if it would be fitting with the green and pleasant land theme though.
Graphics
Your recent adjustments have added a little to what was already a good-looking map of your established standards.
Re: England Map [D] - Update Mar 25th - p1/12
Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 5:32 am
by yeti_c
MrBenn wrote:I'm in two minds about the bonus structure... Any thoughts?
I like it.
C.
Re: England Map [D] - Update Mar 25th - p1/12
Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 11:30 am
by sailorseal
Could you make the area names even lighter like in New World, so you only see them when you look for them because they feel a bit crowded.
Love the map!
Re: England Map [D] - Update Mar 25th - p1/12
Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 3:07 pm
by The Chosen
MrBenn wrote:I'm in two minds about the bonus structure... Any thoughts?
It is an interesting bonus system and the only problem I can see with it is the problem in the North East. If one person has both territories in the first turn of the game and gain 4 extra territories and you add to that with the natural advantage of going first... you're going to have some very annoyed gamers on your back.
If you only get the normal 2 bonuses for 2 territories then no problem.
Another way is if you had a standard system of bonuses and gave the North East a 1 army bonus - 'bit boring though.
The other option (which has been mentioned before) is to always have one of the territories starting as neutral... but that seems a little odd.
Re: England Map [D] - Update Mar 25th - p1/12
Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 3:50 pm
by MrBenn
I can fix the northern bonus drop issue by including some of those territories as start positions, so that nobody will get the northeast from the drop.
Re: England Map [D] - Update Mar 25th - p1/12
Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 4:22 pm
by MrBenn
It is with great pleasure that I introduce you to the little brother of the big map, as I have finally got around to making a small version!
The small has a slightly different aspect, as I've topped-and-tailed the map to assist legibility. I thought I was going to struggle to fit army numbers in, but it seems to have been relatively simple once I turned off the army shadows
There are a couple of minor changes to both versions, including a slight reduction in the opacity of the region names - if I go any lower some areas become difficult to read.
Re: England Map [D] >>> Update Mar 30th <<< p1/13
Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 5:22 pm
by LED ZEPPELINER
tis a work of art. oxford is missing 88, and if you aren't gonna have the army circles on the small, i don't think you should have them on large (just a personal preference). I think that the opacity of the names is just fine. I see what you are doing in trying to have all of the 88's right above or below the names, but i was thinking that it would look better if on somerset, you put the 88 centered on the upper region of the territ. Hope this is helpful.
LZ
Re: England Map [D] >>> Update Mar 30th <<< p1/13
Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 5:30 pm
by MrBenn
LED ZEPPELINER wrote:tis a work of art. oxford is missing 88,
Actually, it's on the Wiltshire/Gloucestershire/Somerset border 
and if you aren't gonna have the army circles on the small, i don't think you should have them on large (just a personal preference).
I prefer the map with the circles on, but cannot accommodate them on the small. I don;t see a real problem with having subtle differences between the images - I think it's purely a matter of personal taste! I think that the opacity of the names is just fine. I see what you are doing in trying to have all of the 88's right above or below the names, but i was thinking that it would look better if on somerset, you put the 88 centered on the upper region of the territ. Hope this is helpful.
I think you lost me there 
Re: England Map [D] >>> Update Mar 30th <<< p1/13
Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 5:36 pm
by the.killing.44
I think he's trying to say put the large's 88 in Somerset on the top right corner. I think it's fine there, nice job. And I don't mind the non-army circles on the small.
.44
Re: England Map [D] >>> Update Mar 30th <<< p1/13
Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 5:42 pm
by LED ZEPPELINER
i was talking about something like this
Re: England Map [D] >>> Update Mar 30th <<< p1/13
Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:13 pm
by saaimen
Somerset doesn't really bother me, though it's an option.
W Sussex does bother me though. Maybe shove the 88s to the right, somewhere above W Sussex?
Re: England Map [D] >>> Update Mar 30th <<< p1/13
Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:16 pm
by LED ZEPPELINER
saaimen wrote:Somerset doesn't really bother me, though it's an option.
W Sussex does bother me though. Maybe shove the 88s to the right, somewhere above W Sussex?
you cant do that becuase the words "South East" are taking up that room
Re: England Map [D] >>> Update Mar 30th <<< p1/13
Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:24 pm
by saaimen
LED ZEPPELINER wrote:you cant do that becuase the words "South East" are taking up that room
Lol... Completely missed that
(Still think those 88s don't look nice over there
)
Re: England Map [D] >>> Update Mar 30th <<< p1/13
Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:43 pm
by MrBenn
LED ZEPPELINER wrote:saaimen wrote:Somerset doesn't really bother me, though it's an option.
W Sussex does bother me though. Maybe shove the 88s to the right, somewhere above W Sussex?
you cant do that becuase the words "South East" are taking up that room
I'd much rather have "East Sussex"/ "West Susssex" too, but I've had to shorten it to fit.
Why did you underline
ss in Sussex?
Re: England Map [D] >>> Update Mar 30th <<< p1/13
Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 7:24 pm
by LED ZEPPELINER
he underlined the ss becuase thats where he wanted you to put the 88
Re: England Map [D] >>> Update Mar 30th <<< p1/13
Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 7:59 pm
by tlane
the small version looks great!
I think it is fine that there are no army circles on the small but there are on the big, as Benn said it is a matter of personal taste.
Also I may be wrong but I don't think there are 88's on Leicester(on the small).
great job
tlane
Re: England Map [D] >>> Update Mar 30th <<< p1/13
Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 3:27 am
by saaimen
MrBenn wrote:I'd much rather have "East Sussex"/ "West Susssex" too, but I've had to shorten it to fit.
Why did you underline ss in Sussex?
LED ZEPPELINER wrote:he underlined the ss becuase thats where he wanted you to put the 88
Re: England Map [D] >>> Update Mar 30th <<< p1/13
Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 7:13 pm
by Merciless Wong
Did you award yourself draft status?
Wow that must have been hard to earn.
Earlier you made a big deal about each map having to be unique. Why is this not just another geographical map?
I mean you have Ireland further along which is also plain and there are already other UK maps.
Also bonuses are less clear than many maps you criticized for having unclear bonuses e.g. Iceland.
Re: England Map [D] >>> Update Mar 30th <<< p1/13
Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 7:28 pm
by LED ZEPPELINER
[player]iancanton[/player] awarded him the draft status. as for uniqueness, from my point of view this is very unique. it has a look that most other maps don't have (especially with the water).
Re: England Map [D] >>> Update Mar 30th <<< p1/13
Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 3:30 am
by yeti_c
Merciless Wong wrote:Did you award yourself draft status?
No - Iancanton did.
Merciless Wong wrote:Wow that must have been hard to earn.
All CA's have to reach the same standard as any mapmaker.
Merciless Wong wrote:Earlier you made a big deal about each map having to be unique. Why is this not just another geographical map?
This map is unique in two different ways.
a) No other map of England is on the site.
b) The bonus system on this map is unique.
Merciless Wong wrote:I mean you have Ireland further along which is also plain and there are already other UK maps.
Are you saying that Ireland is part of the UK? - I think you need to learn some geography & history.
Also - England is not "The UK" it is a country in its own right - the UK is a collection of countries.
Merciless Wong wrote:Also bonuses are less clear than many maps you criticized for having unclear bonuses e.g. Iceland.
Bonus system seems pretty clear to me - as long as you can count that is.
I assume your above post is a petty response to some comments Mr Benn has made on one of your maps - if so I suggest you grow up.
C.
Re: England Map [D] >>> Update Mar 30th <<< p1/13
Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 4:01 am
by owenshooter
yeti_c wrote:I assume your above post is a petty response to some comments Mr Benn has made on one of your maps - if so I suggest you grow up.
i fully agree with my booby, yeti_c on this one. move along if you are just trying to hash out some long ago issue... i like how the map is moving along and love the look of the water... great job...-0
Re: England Map [D] >>> Update Mar 30th <<< p1/13
Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 9:59 am
by Merciless Wong
Quting MrBenn
"If you're going for a unique map, then I'd encourage you to develop unique gameplay to match it "
Why is the bonus reflective of the culture, history or nature of the UK?
I mean its just a slight tweak to the map to reward numbers in same county instead of plain numbers. Otherwise its another geographical map. I'm Ok with a vanilla map, but wonder if some one of the uniqueness criteria is being applied subjectively.
I mean if we take away the different graphics, the shape and number of territories make it a lot like Ireland.
I am just repeating the concerns that are raised for the Rio map, which is not my map BTW.
Also want to argue that the onlything that tells me what a region is, is the color and since its all shades of green I could get confused.
I got told a map must be unique in two fronts out of gameplay.graphics and theme.
On theme this is just another geography, on gameplay its slightly different and on graphics, it is pretty but not pretty in a different way from other geographical maps.
Slightly different undertones in the sea, yes...but is that enough to match the uniqueness standard applied elsewhere?
Re: England Map [D] >>> Update Mar 30th <<< p1/13
Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 1:06 pm
by MrBenn
Merciliess Wong wrote:Also want to argue that the onlything that tells me what a region is, is the color and since its all shades of green I could get confused.
Yes, each region is a different shade of green, but the colours have deliberately been chosen to be different enough so that it is clear where one region ends and the next begins. Also, each region has a label running through the middle of it.
If you think this map is confusing, you should have a look at some of Cairns' maps
Re: England Map [D] >>> Update Mar 30th <<< p1/13
Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 1:36 pm
by Merciless Wong
True. Although someone could decide 2 similar non-adjacent greens are the same district... Can we not do a list of districts.
Also have to dispute the balance of the game. +2 for all districts mean really small (2-3 terit) districts do very well? Also +1 per 3 in same district means because of rounding, 4 and 5 terit districts are shortchanged because they can nver get to +2 on terits in district.
Also... where are the chokepoints and impassability? Not much strategy if everything is indefensible other than by garrisoning every territory in the district.
I don't mean to dispute that the mpa is graphically beautiful but apparently the criteria is on multiple fronts. Unique in terms of looks, theme and gameplay?
I don't see the theme and gameplay uniqueness other than the fact its England... which is just UK with areas blocked out when there are no thematic components.
The game would play almost exactly like the Ireland game.
The "green and pleasant land" is very England and fits with the shades of green. But
how is that consistent with a wargame? Try the full quote from Blake.
"I will not cease from mental fight,
Nor shall my sword sleep in my hand,
Till we have built Jerusalem
In England's green and pleasant land".
Re: England Map [D] >>> Update Mar 30th <<< p1/13
Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 1:54 pm
by saaimen
Merciless Wong wrote:True. Although someone could decide 2 similar non-adjacent greens are the same district...
That would be a very silly person. Because
MrBenn wrote:the colours have deliberately been chosen to be different enough so that it is clear where one region ends and the next begins. Also, each region has a label running through the middle of it.
So
Merciless Wong wrote:Can we not do a list of districts?
No. There's no reason for it, since there are no district bonuses.