Conquer Club

Juan_Bottom wrote:

FabledIntegral wrote:Today's "God" is just as imaginary as were these historical gods. The fact that millions of people worship a god is meaningless.

This is what I decided after reading The Iliad!

You ...read me?

How could you??

Just a quick correction for everyone, the correct spelling is 'scarring' with 2 'r'.

Funny how jay focuses his argument on about one or 2 sentences, whereas a couple of paragraphs are written. Jay answer EVERYTHING

MeDeFe wrote:Just a quick correction for everyone, the correct spelling is 'scarring' with 2 'r'.

I thought so! I looked at it for like 5 minutes..... should have gone with my gut.....

Iliad wrote:How could you??

Baby please,..... It's not what you think........ It's just a book baby, thats all........

Iliad wrote:Jay answer EVERYTHING

He is just one guy, and CC probably isn't his life...... But yeah, I see what you're saying....

Iliad wrote:Funny how jay focuses his argument on about one or 2 sentences, whereas a couple of paragraphs are written. Jay answer EVERYTHING

Because I have debated backglass long enough to know that NO ANSWER given will be "good enough" for him.

The facts remain. MS is a disease that HAS NO CURE. Once you get it, you have it for life. I had all the classic symptoms of MS. I had MRI's done, the 1990 one showed scarRing on the brain, I had a physical healing in 1991, one that I literally FELT. From that day on, I didn't have any symptoms ever again. In 2007 I had another MRI in which the scarRing was gone. ONLY a person with no faith in God will say "it must have been a misdiagnosis". Because it wasn't. I lived it. I lived almost every day with the numbness, the slurred speech, the loss of equilibrium, double vision.(by the way I still have a journal where one of the days the numbness in my hands was so great I could barely write and my handwriting could barely be made out) And then the day of the healing it all stopped. I don't expect an atheist to credit God.

MeDeFe wrote:Just a quick correction for everyone, the correct spelling is 'scarring' with 2 'r'.

Please f*ck off and never return.

jay_a2j wrote:The facts remain. MS is a disease that HAS NO CURE.

So is Ebola, but only 80 something % of people die from it. You should probably give him some stats if you have them.

Juan_Bottom wrote:And then the day of the healing it all stopped.

Not like a southern baptist on tv healing right? What kind of healing Jay?

jay_a2j wrote: I don't expect an atheist to credit God.

Seriously, not being a dick, but why bring it up then Jay?

jay_a2j wrote:

Iliad wrote:Funny how jay focuses his argument on about one or 2 sentences, whereas a couple of paragraphs are written. Jay answer EVERYTHING

Because I have debated backglass long enough to know that NO ANSWER given will be "good enough" for him.

The facts remain. MS is a disease that HAS NO CURE. Once you get it, you have it for life. I had all the classic symptoms of MS. I had MRI's done, the 1990 one showed scarRing on the brain, I had a physical healing in 1991, one that I literally FELT. From that day on, I didn't have any symptoms ever again. In 2007 I had another MRI in which the scarRing was gone. ONLY a person with no faith in God will say "it must have been a misdiagnosis". Because it wasn't. I lived it. I lived almost every day with the numbness, the slurred speech, the loss of equilibrium, double vision.(by the way I still have a journal where one of the days the numbness in my hands was so great I could barely write and my handwriting could barely be made out) And then the day of the healing it all stopped. I don't expect an atheist to credit God.

OK look - obviously you had a profound experience of some sort. Not calling you a liar or anything.
But backglass makes a very good point - you diss science all the time on these forums. Evolution is nonsense. Global warming is nonsense. These are virtually universal scientific consensuses, jay, that you have dismissed out of hand. Yet yoo have placed all your faith in one doctor, with his old equipment and human frailty, 20 years ago. Why?

And while I'm at it:
The question 'why would god allow suffering' is one that goes very deep into the belief/non belief debate. But god healed you, so he has the inclination to heal humans - so why not heal everyone? What makes you so special?
Either god allows suffering for some good, unfathomable reason, or - if your story is true - he lets thousands of children children starve to death and die of AIDS by the thousand every day without intervening, but your MS gets cured. You must have asked yourself why that is - what was your answer?

jay_a2j wrote:

Iliad wrote:Funny how jay focuses his argument on about one or 2 sentences, whereas a couple of paragraphs are written. Jay answer EVERYTHING

Because I have debated backglass long enough to know that NO ANSWER given will be "good enough" for him.

The facts remain. MS is a disease that HAS NO CURE. Once you get it, you have it for life. I had all the classic symptoms of MS. I had MRI's done, the 1990 one showed scarRing on the brain, I had a physical healing in 1991, one that I literally FELT. From that day on, I didn't have any symptoms ever again. In 2007 I had another MRI in which the scarRing was gone. ONLY a person with no faith in God will say "it must have been a misdiagnosis". Because it wasn't. I lived it. I lived almost every day with the numbness, the slurred speech, the loss of equilibrium, double vision.(by the way I still have a journal where one of the days the numbness in my hands was so great I could barely write and my handwriting could barely be made out) And then the day of the healing it all stopped. I don't expect an atheist to credit God.

So as stated before... the placebo effect... you aren't the only one.

heavycola wrote:you diss science all the time

Steven Colbert wrote "Thanks science for 'the bomb,' now go away."

heavycola wrote:

jay_a2j wrote:

Iliad wrote:Funny how jay focuses his argument on about one or 2 sentences, whereas a couple of paragraphs are written. Jay answer EVERYTHING

Because I have debated backglass long enough to know that NO ANSWER given will be "good enough" for him.

The facts remain. MS is a disease that HAS NO CURE. Once you get it, you have it for life. I had all the classic symptoms of MS. I had MRI's done, the 1990 one showed scarRing on the brain, I had a physical healing in 1991, one that I literally FELT. From that day on, I didn't have any symptoms ever again. In 2007 I had another MRI in which the scarRing was gone. ONLY a person with no faith in God will say "it must have been a misdiagnosis". Because it wasn't. I lived it. I lived almost every day with the numbness, the slurred speech, the loss of equilibrium, double vision.(by the way I still have a journal where one of the days the numbness in my hands was so great I could barely write and my handwriting could barely be made out) And then the day of the healing it all stopped. I don't expect an atheist to credit God.

OK look - obviously you had a profound experience of some sort. Not calling you a liar or anything.
But backglass makes a very good point - you diss science all the time on these forums. Evolution is nonsense. Global warming is nonsense. These are virtually universal scientific consensuses, jay, that you have dismissed out of hand. Yet yoo have placed all your faith in one doctor, with his old equipment and human frailty, 20 years ago. Why?

And while I'm at it:
The question 'why would god allow suffering' is one that goes very deep into the belief/non belief debate. But god healed you, so he has the inclination to heal humans - so why not heal everyone? What makes you so special?
Either god allows suffering for some good, unfathomable reason, or - if your story is true - he lets thousands of children children starve to death and die of AIDS by the thousand every day without intervening, but your MS gets cured. You must have asked yourself why that is - what was your answer?

I don't "diss science", a lot of good has come from science. But science can be flawed. It is not the end all that is all.


Why does God allow suffering? Why do you? or me? or President Bush? or the Pope? Why are people starving in Africa when the world produces more than enough food to feed all people? Well, I can tell you this, it isn't God's fault. It's mans.

Have you ever read all the instances in the Bible where Jesus healed people? What was it He said to them each and every time? He said, "Your FAITH has healed you", in other words faith in God is a prerequisite to healing (by God).

And FabledIntegral, I am well aware that I am not the only one.

jay_a2j wrote:

heavycola wrote:

jay_a2j wrote:

Iliad wrote:Funny how jay focuses his argument on about one or 2 sentences, whereas a couple of paragraphs are written. Jay answer EVERYTHING

Because I have debated backglass long enough to know that NO ANSWER given will be "good enough" for him.

The facts remain. MS is a disease that HAS NO CURE. Once you get it, you have it for life. I had all the classic symptoms of MS. I had MRI's done, the 1990 one showed scarRing on the brain, I had a physical healing in 1991, one that I literally FELT. From that day on, I didn't have any symptoms ever again. In 2007 I had another MRI in which the scarRing was gone. ONLY a person with no faith in God will say "it must have been a misdiagnosis". Because it wasn't. I lived it. I lived almost every day with the numbness, the slurred speech, the loss of equilibrium, double vision.(by the way I still have a journal where one of the days the numbness in my hands was so great I could barely write and my handwriting could barely be made out) And then the day of the healing it all stopped. I don't expect an atheist to credit God.

OK look - obviously you had a profound experience of some sort. Not calling you a liar or anything.
But backglass makes a very good point - you diss science all the time on these forums. Evolution is nonsense. Global warming is nonsense. These are virtually universal scientific consensuses, jay, that you have dismissed out of hand. Yet yoo have placed all your faith in one doctor, with his old equipment and human frailty, 20 years ago. Why?

And while I'm at it:
The question 'why would god allow suffering' is one that goes very deep into the belief/non belief debate. But god healed you, so he has the inclination to heal humans - so why not heal everyone? What makes you so special?
Either god allows suffering for some good, unfathomable reason, or - if your story is true - he lets thousands of children children starve to death and die of AIDS by the thousand every day without intervening, but your MS gets cured. You must have asked yourself why that is - what was your answer?

I don't "diss science", a lot of good has come from science. But science can be flawed. It is not the end all that is all.


Why does God allow suffering? Why do you? or me? or President Bush? or the Pope? Why are people starving in Africa when the world produces more than enough food to feed all people? Well, I can tell you this, it isn't God's fault. It's mans.

Have you ever read all the instances in the Bible where Jesus healed people? What was it He said to them each and every time? He said, "Your FAITH has healed you", in other words faith in God is a prerequisite to healing (by God).

And FabledIntegral, I am well aware that I am not the only one.

So basically you healed yourself?

Jay makes me laugh so much it hurts
Yes, Gods upo there, keeping an eye on jay whilst letting the lizardmen run free and the non believers waltz on their way to hell.
And God placed a scientist there just for Jay!
Mate, you're just mad. You need a shrink, not a scan


ps everyone on here is laughing AT you.

suggs wrote:

ps everyone on here is laughing AT you.

Surely there is one that is not.

jay_a2j wrote:

heavycola wrote:

jay_a2j wrote:

Iliad wrote:Funny how jay focuses his argument on about one or 2 sentences, whereas a couple of paragraphs are written. Jay answer EVERYTHING

Because I have debated backglass long enough to know that NO ANSWER given will be "good enough" for him.

The facts remain. MS is a disease that HAS NO CURE. Once you get it, you have it for life. I had all the classic symptoms of MS. I had MRI's done, the 1990 one showed scarRing on the brain, I had a physical healing in 1991, one that I literally FELT. From that day on, I didn't have any symptoms ever again. In 2007 I had another MRI in which the scarRing was gone. ONLY a person with no faith in God will say "it must have been a misdiagnosis". Because it wasn't. I lived it. I lived almost every day with the numbness, the slurred speech, the loss of equilibrium, double vision.(by the way I still have a journal where one of the days the numbness in my hands was so great I could barely write and my handwriting could barely be made out) And then the day of the healing it all stopped. I don't expect an atheist to credit God.

OK look - obviously you had a profound experience of some sort. Not calling you a liar or anything.
But backglass makes a very good point - you diss science all the time on these forums. Evolution is nonsense. Global warming is nonsense. These are virtually universal scientific consensuses, jay, that you have dismissed out of hand. Yet yoo have placed all your faith in one doctor, with his old equipment and human frailty, 20 years ago. Why?

And while I'm at it:
The question 'why would god allow suffering' is one that goes very deep into the belief/non belief debate. But god healed you, so he has the inclination to heal humans - so why not heal everyone? What makes you so special?
Either god allows suffering for some good, unfathomable reason, or - if your story is true - he lets thousands of children children starve to death and die of AIDS by the thousand every day without intervening, but your MS gets cured. You must have asked yourself why that is - what was your answer?

I don't "diss science", a lot of good has come from science. But science can be flawed. It is not the end all that is all.


Why does God allow suffering? Why do you? or me? or President Bush? or the Pope? Why are people starving in Africa when the world produces more than enough food to feed all people? Well, I can tell you this, it isn't God's fault. It's mans.

Have you ever read all the instances in the Bible where Jesus healed people? What was it He said to them each and every time? He said, "Your FAITH has healed you", in other words faith in God is a prerequisite to healing (by God).

And FabledIntegral, I am well aware that I am not the only one.

Man is not perfect - you are asking why we allow suffering. Well the point is nulled considering most of the people arguing with you don't believe in God. Thus suffering is very explainable, and there is no problem to solve. With your situation, however, it's different, because you believe in a perfect, just God. He created mankind, he allowed these situations to happen. No amount of free will with humans can possibly take away from the fact human nature was created by God. He created man, thus he created the nature of man. Just as he created snails to be slow, some people to be black and some white, etc., he created human nature as well. Thus the suffering is a direct cause of his own actions, and he's done nothing to fix it.

So basically all those Jesus healed as well, were just lucky to be where he was preaching? Sucks for all those in England that were worshiping the pagan gods.

And I was just making sure you were aware you weren't alone - the effect works very well on atheists as well!

jay_a2j wrote:

suggs wrote:

ps everyone on here is laughing AT you.

Surely there is one that is not.

no the magical invisible god in the clouds that healed you isn't.

Here's a puzzle jay find out using LOGIC why?


P.S The answer starts with "h" and ends with "e doesn't exist"

FabledIntegral wrote:
Man is not perfect - you are asking why we allow suffering. Well the point is nulled considering most of the people arguing with you don't believe in God. Thus suffering is very explainable, and there is no problem to solve. With your situation, however, it's different, because you believe in a perfect, just God. He created mankind, he allowed these situations to happen. No amount of free will with humans can possibly take away from the fact human nature was created by God. He created man, thus he created the nature of man. Just as he created snails to be slow, some people to be black and some white, etc., he created human nature as well. Thus the suffering is a direct cause of his own actions, and he's done nothing to fix it.

So basically all those Jesus healed as well, were just lucky to be where he was preaching? Sucks for all those in England that were worshiping the pagan gods.

And I was just making sure you were aware you weren't alone - the effect works very well on atheists as well!

Yes, he is perfect and just. He gave us free will and look what we've done with it? Don't worry, I believe that you will see His justice come complete in your lifetime (provided you aren't 90 or something) No, suffering is a direct result of sin. Not God.


That is exactly why I put "by God" in parenthesis. I don't think God heals those that do not have faith in Him. Not that a healing can't come from another source. But (and I may be wrong here, but the evidence I see in scripture is that all the people healed had faith in Christ, or at least someone had faith. (in the case of the Roman who asked Jesus to heal his daughter and Jesus told him to go home , that his faith had healed his daughter)

And why don't you research it? I'm sure there are plenty of people in England that God has healed.

I was talking about when Jesus was alive- sorry I didn't realize I had to explain what I considered to be common sense.

FabledIntegral wrote:I was talking about when Jesus was alive- sorry I didn't realize I had to explain what I considered to be common sense.

What's common sense is that He rose on the third day. He's STILL alive!

God is the same yesterday, today and forever.

Oh shit my bad!

jay_a2j wrote:

suggs wrote:

ps everyone on here is laughing AT you.

Surely there is one that is not.

I'm not laughing at anyone Jay.

jay_a2j wrote:

FabledIntegral wrote:I was talking about when Jesus was alive- sorry I didn't realize I had to explain what I considered to be common sense.

What's common sense is that He rose on the third day. He's STILL alive!

God is the same yesterday, today and forever.

then Jesus didn't really sacrifice himself did he? He just mildly inconvienced himself for our sins

Iliad wrote:

jay_a2j wrote:

FabledIntegral wrote:I was talking about when Jesus was alive- sorry I didn't realize I had to explain what I considered to be common sense.

What's common sense is that He rose on the third day. He's STILL alive!

God is the same yesterday, today and forever.

then Jesus didn't really sacrifice himself did he? He just mildly inconvienced himself for our sins

Oh!!!!! Burnnnnn!!!!

Juan_Bottom wrote:Oh!!!!! Burnnnnn!!!!

I seriously hope not. I'm hoping Iliad comes to know the truth.

jay_a2j wrote:

Juan_Bottom wrote:Oh!!!!! Burnnnnn!!!!

I seriously hope not. I'm hoping Iliad comes to know the truth.

Jay you've been pretty funny lately.