Version 11.6 FRANCE 2.1

[nolefan5311]

there are three 3-département bonuses (basse-normande, limousin and picardie). this gives a fairly high chance of one player starting with a bonus, so we'll have to do something about that.

ian.

This still needs to be addressed to prevent players from dropping bonuses. You don't need starting n3's, n2's will be fine.

Also, Corse bonus at +2 is still too high...is there no way this can be reduced?

[Lancelot du Lac]

Also, Corse bonus at +2 is still too high...is there no way this can be reduced?

I propose :
- Add an another sea link between Corse du Sud and Bouche du Rhone and let the bonus +2 to respect regional claim and regional bonus

there are three 3-département bonuses (basse-normande, limousin and picardie). this gives a fairly high chance of one player starting with a bonus, so we'll have to do something about that.
ian.

I propose :
- Add a neutral territory (n2) in departement of Manche (Basse Normandie), Corrèze (Limousin) and Oise (Picardie)



What do you think ?

[nolefan5311]

Also, Corse bonus at +2 is still too high...is there no way this can be reduced?

I propose :
- Add an another sea link between Corse du Sud and Bouche du Rhone and let the bonus +2 to respect regional claim and regional bonus

That's not ideal, but close enough. How about instead removing the sea route from Herault, and adding sea routes from Aude and Gard for entry points from Aude, Gard, Var, and Alpes-Maritime (for a total of 4). That way it sort of alternates the sea routes in, and doesn't make entry too dependent on the PACA continent. What do you think?

there are three 3-département bonuses (basse-normande, limousin and picardie). this gives a fairly high chance of one player starting with a bonus, so we'll have to do something about that.
ian.

I propose :
- Add a neutral territory (n2) in departement of Manche (Basse Normandie), Corrèze (Limousin) and Oise (Picardie)

What do you think ?

This works fine.

I will go ahead and stamp this for the GP stamp. Great work guys.

[Lancelot du Lac]

That's not ideal, but close enough. How about instead removing the sea route from Herault, and adding sea routes from Aude and Gard for entry points from Aude, Gard, Var, and Alpes-Maritime (for a total of 4). That way it sort of alternates the sea routes in, and doesn't make entry too dependent on the PACA continent. What do you think?

If possible I like that better :

Reduction of river, to do an entrance in PACA from Gard.

Now :
- 6 entrances different to attack PACA (Gard, Ardeche, Drome, Savoie, Haute-Corse, Monaco) and 5 entrances different to defend in PACA (Vaucluse, Alpes de Haute Provence, Hautes-Alpes, Alpes-Maritime, Var)
- 3 entrances different to attack Corse (Gard, Var, Alpes Maritime) and 2 entrances differences to defend Corse

[nolefan5311]

I like the change, but it still doesn't fix the problem that you need 4 total borders with Corse if you want it to maintain the +2.

[Lancelot du Lac]

And if I put this link from Bouche du Rhone, you do not like it?

[nolefan5311]

There is a lot going on in PACA, but if it's fine with you, it works for me. I will leave it stickied for a few more days to see if we can get some more GP feedback, but in the meantime, it looks good. Nice work.

[Lancelot du Lac]

ok thanks for you help !

[nolefan5311]

[player]iancanton[/player], the real gameplay guru, has brought up some good points that need to be addressed before we can stamp the map.

First, we can run with Paris being 10 neutral as is, but during the Beta phase, if it appears it's being ignored because it's too many neutrals to conquer, we will have to lower the amount of neutrals. It wouldn't be right if Paris, one of the most important cities in the world, is ignored in over half the games.

Second, the 3-region bonus zones (Pic, Limousine) should be reduced to a +2 total instead of +3. Also, you can increase PACA to a +5.

Finally, a couple suggestions on the legend

• In the "Regional Claim" box, change the wording to, "Holding all of same flag = +1"
• In the Victory Condition area, change it to, "...one Regional Claim + one Foreign Claim". You might also think about adding another dashed line (-----------------) between the Suburb information and the WC information.

[Lancelot du Lac]

Second, the 3-region bonus zones (Pic, Limousine) should be reduced to a +2 total instead of +3. Also, you can increase PACA to a +5.

Even if I start with one territory neutral (n2), must I reduce the bonus to +2 ?

Finally, a couple suggestions on the legend

In the "Regional Claim" box, change the wording to, "Holding all of same flag = +1"
In the Victory Condition area, change it to, "...one Regional Claim + one Foreign Claim". You might also think about adding another dashed line (-----------------) between the Suburb information and the WC information.

Is it ok ?

[nolefan5311]

Second, the 3-region bonus zones (Pic, Limousine) should be reduced to a +2 total instead of +3. Also, you can increase PACA to a +5.

Even if I start with one territory neutral (n2), must I reduce the bonus to +2 ?

Finally, a couple suggestions on the legend

In the "Regional Claim" box, change the wording to, "Holding all of same flag = +1"
In the Victory Condition area, change it to, "...one Regional Claim + one Foreign Claim". You might also think about adding another dashed line (-----------------) between the Suburb information and the WC information.

Is it ok ?

The n2 only prevents bonuses from being dropped at the beginning of the game. ian suggested the bonuses be reduced because a 3 region +3 bonus is too easy to grab, and is too high a reward, in 1v1 games (1v1 games are played more often than any game type, so it has to be fair for this game type).

[nolefan5311]

And the legend looks really good.

Once you post the updated image, I believe we can go ahead and stamp this.

[Lancelot du Lac]

UPDATE done here and first topic. Thanks nolefan for your advices.

Last update
VERSION 9.1
1. Map Name France 2.0
2. Version 9.1 [11 October 2012]
3. Dimension : 915 * 927
[bigimg]http://nsa32.casimages.com/img/2012/10/11//121011072731758460.png[/bigimg]

[nolefan5311]

Awesome. I'm very excited to see this map come to fruition. Just remember that if you wanted to increase PACA to a +5, go ahead.

Otherwise, this is LAST CALL for gameplay comments. If anyone has concerns now is the time to mention them. Otherwise, this map will be given the gameplay stamp in 48 hours.

[Lancelot du Lac]

Now it's ok for PACA, there is a +5 bonus

[iancanton]

nice to see this project advancing!

after including the extra neutrals, the probability in 1v1 of the first player receiving a starting bonus is down from a very high 15% to about 6%. can u edit the list of neutrals in the first post, please, to include the extra three neutral départements? there are 95 regions and 16 starting neutrals, which means that we have 79 starting regions, a good number for games of 2, 3, 4, 6, 7 and 8 players (5-player and 7-player games are rarely played and are therefore not as important as the others).

ian.

[Lancelot du Lac]

The update is successfully done.

On the other hand, I count 19 territories who start neutral. See the updates first topic.

[ManBungalow]

The only two problems I can see at the moment:

*the nord/somme border is quite short (it probably wouldn't show up at all in the small map image)
*some borders look un-natural (eg the coast of pas de calais)

Good luck.

[nolefan5311]

Onward and upward guys. Congrats!

[Lancelot du Lac]

thanks you very much. What is the next step ?

[nolefan5311]

thanks you very much. What is the next step ?

Graphic input from the CA's and community.

The only two problems I can see at the moment:

*the nord/somme border is quite short (it probably wouldn't show up at all in the small map image)
*some borders look un-natural (eg the coast of pas de calais)

Good luck.

This might be something you want to address as well.

[nolefan5311]

The update is successfully done.

On the other hand, I count 19 territories who start neutral. See the updates first topic.

I count 97 total regions with 19 neutrals, leaving 78 distributed at drop, which is also a perfect number for every game type except for 5 player.

[jghost7]

Would have been nice to be able to attack a foreign claim from the adjoining territory to be able to bombard Paris.



Thanks,

J

[koontz1973]

Well done guys for getting here. Here are my main concerns dealing with the graphics but overall, it is looking very nice.

Manche is going into the Paris cut out. Move your layers so it fits under.
Bridges - all three are different sizes and of a different style. Can we get a bridge put in like the mountains and also at the correct orientation.
Why does BZH have a nice jagged coastline while some other parts look flat? Is this really the French coastline?
Rivers, they are massive in places. Some like the one between Gard and Bouche de rhone are nice. Can we get the others at a similar width?
Mountains, can we try to jazz them up some, less of the copy paste job, more variation.

As I said, these are my main things and have some minor ones, but will leave them for a bit so as not to overload you. Great work and looking forward to this one.

[pamoa]

congrats for the stamp
now graphics
you have to work a bit on your bridges and your mountains
I would also add a thin dark grey line around the rivers
also the blending of the Loire in the ocean is too abrupt
you can small down Ile-de-France minimap of 5% so it doesn't touch the mainland
and what about the copyright of your background image