Page 8 of 30
Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 9:25 am
by DiM
my suggestions:
*split forrest 2 in 2 territories. and add another river between midlands 4&5 and forest 1&2. this way midlands and forrest will share a border between midlands 6 and forrest 2&5
*do something with the colours in forrest swamp and camp, they are too alike. imagine a colour blinded person will have no idea which is which
*as keyogi said i don't quite like the change from perspective to top view. and the problem is the sudden change in the River Camp. the perspective tent and the top view bridges are so close and the change is too brutal. maybe try making the bridges with a hint of perspective. then the castle being top view will not be such a problem because it is further away.
*remove the 4way borders in the west-east ward and the one in front of the forrest camp.
*add another torch in tunnel 7 it is so dark you can't even tell it continues to the swamp.
*do something about the colours in the legend. the tunnel is very unclear and forest and woods camp
on a more personal note i would have really loved the whole map to be in perspective, to see the walls the stairs the towers, etc. but since you started like this i guess there's no turning back
Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:40 am
by mibi
changes:
bonuses changed, great hall now 1, wards, now 3, swamp and plains, now 4, tunnel, now 2. soem graphic changes, colors a bit different on the swamp forest and forest camp, and the key to match. river camp bridge have a little depth, and a light in tunnel 7.
can someone please explain to be by 4 ways are so shunned?
Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:43 am
by Gozar
As the diagonals at a four way border cannot attack each other, they create unnecessary confusion.
Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:51 am
by mibi
Gozar wrote:As the diagonals at a four way border cannot attack each other, they create unnecessary confusion.
heh, i have never been confused by them... i think would be confusing if i refiggered the wards 4 way so that a sliver of one territory were able to touch the other 3 just to get rid of a 4 way would ultimately be more confusing
Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 11:02 am
by DiM
mibi wrote:can someone please explain to be by 4 ways are so shunned?
i've never had any problem with 4 way borders. but many people will complain tha the diagonals don't attack. and the confusion will be very annoying. it's a common agreement that 4 way borders will not be used.
Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 11:51 am
by mibi
ok so now there are now the 4ways in the wards and the woods camp on gone... it certainly throws the symmetry off, but those dreaded four ways are gone!
personally i liked it better with the 4 ways in there.
Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 11:55 am
by DiM
i just found out there are 3 more 4 way borders
here
edit//
and here:
Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 12:23 pm
by mibi
DiM wrote:i just found out there are 3 more 4 way borders
here
edit//
and here:
negative...the walls can only be breached via the stairs, so while the borders look 4 way, they dont operate as such.
and the gate has arrows that make it a non- 4way.
its too bad people get all heated about 4 ways, they really arnt complicated and can add to the gameplay.
Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 12:44 pm
by DiM
mibi wrote:negative...the walls can only be breached via the stairs, so while the borders look 4 way, they dont operate as such.
and the gate has arrows that make it a non- 4way.
its too bad people get all heated about 4 ways, they really arnt complicated and can add to the gameplay.
i know about the stairs and the arrows but i'm willing to bet that when this map will become playable we'll have threads like:
"BUG in SIEGE MAP" i tried attacking outer wall 2 from west ward 4 and it is impossible. this made me lose, bla bla bla.
Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 1:59 pm
by Lone.prophet
maybe redused the number of bonusses?
Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 2:31 pm
by mibi
DiM wrote:mibi wrote:negative...the walls can only be breached via the stairs, so while the borders look 4 way, they dont operate as such.
and the gate has arrows that make it a non- 4way.
its too bad people get all heated about 4 ways, they really arnt complicated and can add to the gameplay.
i know about the stairs and the arrows but i'm willing to bet that when this map will become playable we'll have threads like:
"BUG in SIEGE MAP" i tried attacking outer wall 2 from west ward 4 and it is impossible. this made me lose, bla bla bla.
this is ridiculous, when has there ever been diagonal attacks, why would someone assume they can attack in a diagonal when they never have before.
if a person claims that 'bug' caused them to lose you can bet that wasn't the only reason they lose.
Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 3:42 pm
by KEYOGI
mibi wrote:people like seem to like them, as do i. it goes from a 75 degree veiw to a 90 degree view which gives the impression of forward motion.
Sorry, but I disagree. I understand you've put a lot of work into this map and thus are probably more reluctant to change but this really bugs me now that I've figured it out. It is just my opinion, but I'd prefer to see the tent, trees and fence done in a top-down perspective as well.
mibi wrote:i dont think the 'clashing' is bad at all. I'm currently the blue player on a classic map and im not even sure if Im still in the game or now, i mean, im not eliminated but i can't find my armies. But i may darken some shields.
Well it is bad. The problem with a lot of old maps is that they were made before the current foundry process was put in place. That's why there's a lot maps on the site that aren't up to current standards. BeNeLux is currently in hot debate over this very issue.
mibi wrote:maybe your monitor needs adjustment, or maybe mine does.
My monitor is fine, but could you make the numbers just a touch darker. I think contrast is an important part of a map. While it may not always look good, it needs be pratical more than anything else.
Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 4:18 pm
by Lone.prophet
Lone.prophet wrote:maybe redused the number of bonusses?
Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 5:31 pm
by mibi
Lone.prophet wrote:Lone.prophet wrote:maybe redused the number of bonusses?
is there a reason?
Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 5:37 pm
by Nerrimus
:/ A +3 for a one border continent feels... wrong. Any comment? (Great hall + throne = one border).
I think the rest of the map is fine though.
Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 5:43 pm
by mibi
Ok well I, and this map, are currently on vacation for a week. I will be out of the country and unable to do any updates until I get back. I will check this thread though so keep the suggestions coming.
As it stands, the bonuses look good, as does the game play for the most part. Keyogi and one other have issue with 3D forest, fence, and tent, but others like them so I dont plan on changing them. I think it gives a little depth to an otherwise flat map.
I've darkened the numbers and the shields in areas so there is less clashing.
Below are two version. One with 4 way borders in the wards and woods camp, one without. As you can see the loss of the tidy 4 way can create some off angles. I prefer the 4 ways but if its really going to be a game play fiasco then I'll due with out.
Cya in a week!
without:
with:
Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 5:56 pm
by Teya
mibi wrote: Keyogi and one other have issue with 3D forest, fence, and tent, but others like them so I dont plan on changing them. I think it gives a little depth to an otherwise flat map.
I respect what you are trying to do, but the perspective really is out. The castle looks like it is a birds eye view, the trees and fence should be leaning in the opposite direction as you are above the castle and you are looking back at the trees. They really should just go the other way.
Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 8:56 pm
by hulmey
Maybe the wind is blowing them in that direction Teya
Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 9:07 pm
by Teya
yeah, But im being serious. Its just basic perspective that a graphic designer should know.
Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 9:20 pm
by unriggable
Teya wrote:mibi wrote: Keyogi and one other have issue with 3D forest, fence, and tent, but others like them so I dont plan on changing them. I think it gives a little depth to an otherwise flat map.
I respect what you are trying to do, but the perspective really is out. The castle looks like it is a birds eye view, the trees and fence should be leaning in the opposite direction as you are above the castle and you are looking back at the trees. They really should just go the other way.
Yeah it does kind of look like this:
Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:02 pm
by KEYOGI
unriggable wrote:Yeah it does kind of look like this:
I'm not sure if you're trying to prove Teya right or wrong there.
But yes, the land should be flat and the current map suggest the camera is hovering over the castle, not over the trees. This completely throws the 3D objects out.
If there's to be any sort of perspective like mibi's trying to create, the trees need to be seen from above and the castle have a more 3D look to it. If mibi wants to keep the castle 2D then I'd suggest flipping the map so the castle is at the bottom.
Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 11:33 pm
by hulmey
i dont see any problem with it the trees myself!!! Im not to keen on the wooden fence i must admit...Im sure mibi could do a better job on them....
But think the trees look ok and would not suggest fliiping the castle or making the castle look 3d....
Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 11:56 pm
by Teya
the perspective is wrong. Since Mibi is a graphic designer he should know that.
Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 4:25 am
by Qwert
Yes mibi, you have 2 diferent perspective, 3D(down half of map) and bird perspective(up half of map) but i dont mine for these.
Well you can try to put all map in 3D to see how will these look.
Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 10:25 am
by DiM
mibi wrote:Keyogi and one other have issue with 3D forest, fence, and tent, but others like them so I dont plan on changing them. I think it gives a little depth to an otherwise flat map.
i was the other one
but since you implemented the perspective bridges near the tent camp i does not bother me that much.
mibi wrote:this is ridiculous, when has there ever been diagonal attacks, why would someone assume they can attack in a diagonal when they never have before.
if a person claims that 'bug' caused them to lose you can bet that wasn't the only reason they lose.
i people see even a 1 pixel connection between 2 teritories they'll asume they border and try to attack. they wo'n be able and they'll come to the forum to complain. just look at the other maps. you'll see no 4 way connections. just my thought. as i said i don't have a problem with this.