Conquer Club

phantomzero wrote:Wow, reading through all of this is a little crazy with all of the banter.

When the Police use photo-radar or red light cameras the ticket is sent to the registered owner of that vehicle. It doesn't matter if the registered owner was driving at the time of the infraction, unless their car was reported stolen they are on the hook for the ticket. While I hope there is another explanation and that Commander is not guilty, if the IP from his home computer was taking his turns then it's really his responsibility.

that stuff about the car tickets is not true...clearly you have no experience in the situation. You can prove that it wasn't you and also giving up your car is a bit different that letting someone have access to your cc account. Beyond that the punishment of a fine is a bit different than losing your right to play on this site forever

king sam wrote:Obviously evidence suggests us leaning one way, and benefit of the doubt is always given if it is there. Go ask anyone that's in jail right now, they will all tell you they are innocent, and have been wrongfully convicted. Doesn't make it so.

Wait, really? I know there are a few that are in denial, but I'm pretty sure a lot would admit to it.

LOL I just finished watching Fight Club.

This is probably relevant: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=144001

Fircoal wrote:This is probably relevant: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=144001

This is a great addition to the thread.

Also, I was wondering why Commander's account couldnt be reactivated. One thing we will get is answers.

Suppose one of these two situations were to happen:

1) Commander starts using his account again and restores the points he lost. He would obviously be contributing to the site again, making everyone happy. The end.

2) Commander starts abusing his account again. Get it locked, and the perma-ban initiates. This means the mods will take appropriate action and though the community is sad (that Commander actually did it), it would be over. The end.
(I am not saying Commander would actually do this, as I have shown my opinion and support earlier)

Im no computer wiz so I gotta ask is there any way somebody couldve logged in Comm's account and be completely invisible for any ip check or w/e moderators do in their investigation? if something like that is possible and combined with the fact that theres really no good motive for Comm to point dump, shudnt that be reason enough to clear Comm or give him some other lesser punishment then banning him forever?
seriously guys, plz think about this, Comm loves this game and site, he has many friends here and is a member of thota and has always maintained his high score, why would he do something stupid like point dumping???? hell even if he wanted to point dump he wouldnt need to do it the way it was done, he couldve played a bunch of speed doddles like many ppl do every day and his score wouldve dropped light speed.. u dont need to be a frikin genius to see this was a sabotage..

nikola_milicki wrote:Im no computer wiz so I gotta ask is there any way somebody couldve logged in Comm's account and be completely invisible for any ip check or w/e moderators do in their investigation?

From my knowledge (Which is limited), I don't think that is possible

TheForgivenOne wrote:

nikola_milicki wrote:Im no computer wiz so I gotta ask is there any way somebody couldve logged in Comm's account and be completely invisible for any ip check or w/e moderators do in their investigation?

From my knowledge (Which is limited), I don't think that is possible

Cough* yes it is *cough

My own take on this. Either:

i) Commander is guilty, despite what pretty much everyone who has played with or knows the guy believes, and the evidence is sufficient to support the fact, or

ii) Commander is innocent (my own belief too btw) and the evidence that points to him being the perpetrator is either erroneous (unlikely tbh) or has been manipulated/planted (the route one should probably take if we assume from the outset he is innocent). It's not hard to set someone up in rl for a crime (planting evidence or contraband) and the same holds true on the net.

I have to be honest and say my very first reaction was that it was some kind of smokescreen, as the timing was so incredibly coincidental as to draw attention away from another big case that was being investigated at the time.

There are a myriad ways of planting a trojan or some other form of s/ware on a PC that would allow a remote user to control activity on that PC, especially if that PC belonged to a CC account holder whose info was known to the malicious user.

So in my mind the most logical/feasible explanation is that someone possibly close to Commander has hijacked his PC remotely, using some program that he has been able to install on his hard drive which has enabled him to use Comm's PC as a remote server.

I know this isn't beyond the realms of possibility (I'm constantly bombarded by stuff from a niece's PC in Canada and she has no idea that it's being sent) and so I just wonder if the powers-that-be are able to explore (or consider) this as being the likely sequence of events?

Chariot of Fire wrote:My own take on this. Either:

i) Commander is guilty, despite what pretty much everyone who has played with or knows the guy believes, and the evidence is sufficient to support the fact, or

ii) Commander is innocent (my own belief too btw) and the evidence that points to him being the perpetrator is either erroneous (unlikely tbh) or has been manipulated/planted (the route one should probably take if we assume from the outset he is innocent). It's not hard to set someone up in rl for a crime (planting evidence or contraband) and the same holds true on the net.

I have to be honest and say my very first reaction was that it was some kind of smokescreen, as the timing was so incredibly coincidental as to draw attention away from another big case that was being investigated at the time.

There are a myriad ways of planting a trojan or some other form of s/ware on a PC that would allow a remote user to control activity on that PC, especially if that PC belonged to a CC account holder whose info was known to the malicious user.

So in my mind the most logical/feasible explanation is that someone possibly close to Commander has hijacked his PC remotely, using some program that he has been able to install on his hard drive which has enabled him to use Comm's PC as a remote server.

I know this isn't beyond the realms of possibility (I'm constantly bombarded by stuff from a niece's PC in Canada and she has no idea that it's being sent) and so I just wonder if the powers-that-be are able to explore (or consider) this as being the likely sequence of events?

I exchanged pm's with King Sam about that possibility and while I can pretty much guarantee no IP tracking tool would reveal if Commander's terminal was being used as a remote host, the only other option to determine if that was a great possibility was looking at turns that Commander conceded he took before this incident and try and match the behavior to the turns in the thrown games. See how long he usually made moves, whether the turns started immediately after his proper turns, etc. See if a pattern emerges that indicates it was him or if it was completely outside of his behavioral characteristics.

jackal31 wrote:
2) Commander starts abusing his account again. Get it locked, and the perma-ban initiates. This means the mods will take appropriate action and though the community is sad (that Commander actually did it), it would be over. The end.
(I am not saying Commander would actually do this, as I have shown my opinion and support earlier)

I would think (2) to be a logical thing. While the moderators think they have evidence that indicate Commander did it, there is truly no motive at this point. When Commander tanked his points earlier, was it done in the same way or fashion? No. The behavior doesn't link up and if another event like this happened, we could safely say where there's smoke there's fire. But he deserves the benefit of the doubt in this instance.

This kid needs someone to scan his computer for trojan viruses, not steal $25 from him and tell him he can't roll imaginary dice.

trapyoung wrote:

jackal31 wrote:
2) Commander starts abusing his account again. Get it locked, and the perma-ban initiates. This means the mods will take appropriate action and though the community is sad (that Commander actually did it), it would be over. The end.
(I am not saying Commander would actually do this, as I have shown my opinion and support earlier)

I would think (2) to be a logical thing. While the moderators think they have evidence that indicate Commander did it, there is truly no motive at this point. When Commander tanked his points earlier, was it done in the same way or fashion? No. The behavior doesn't link up and if another event like this happened, we could safely say where there's smoke there's fire. But he deserves the benefit of the doubt in this instance.

This kid needs someone to scan his computer for trojan viruses, not steal $25 from him and tell him he can't roll imaginary dice.

you're missing the point

the mods have said it was done on Commander's ip. it does not matter if you prove it wasn't him, he is still responsible for the actions taken via his ip.

greenoaks wrote:

trapyoung wrote:

jackal31 wrote:
2) Commander starts abusing his account again. Get it locked, and the perma-ban initiates. This means the mods will take appropriate action and though the community is sad (that Commander actually did it), it would be over. The end.
(I am not saying Commander would actually do this, as I have shown my opinion and support earlier)

I would think (2) to be a logical thing. While the moderators think they have evidence that indicate Commander did it, there is truly no motive at this point. When Commander tanked his points earlier, was it done in the same way or fashion? No. The behavior doesn't link up and if another event like this happened, we could safely say where there's smoke there's fire. But he deserves the benefit of the doubt in this instance.

This kid needs someone to scan his computer for trojan viruses, not steal $25 from him and tell him he can't roll imaginary dice.

you're missing the point

the mods have said it was done on Commander's ip. it does not matter if you prove it wasn't him, he is still responsible for the actions taken via his ip.

There are various ways to disguise an IP, via proxies and the such. It wouldnt be such a stretch to assume that something of the like was used. Unfortunately, it is tough to prove if one was used (as their intended use). The bigger point is he is responsible for the actions taken via his account.

Viruses - remote proxies - man in ski mask. This sure looks like pulling at straws. If it wasn't commander I would bet a sibling. I also recall some accounts that had been accessed by siblings and CC reversed bans due to it.

Well anyway didn't this all start with speed Game 8912318 vs [player]Wise Viking[/player], who happened to have 1st go and deadbeated round 3. Commander won without taking a turn. 4-19 09:14:32

That is very odd to me that a point dump would start as a win vs a deadbeat. Wise Viking and commander connected in anyway? Just wondering.

Gold Knight wrote:

greenoaks wrote:

trapyoung wrote:

jackal31 wrote:
2) Commander starts abusing his account again. Get it locked, and the perma-ban initiates. This means the mods will take appropriate action and though the community is sad (that Commander actually did it), it would be over. The end.
(I am not saying Commander would actually do this, as I have shown my opinion and support earlier)

I would think (2) to be a logical thing. While the moderators think they have evidence that indicate Commander did it, there is truly no motive at this point. When Commander tanked his points earlier, was it done in the same way or fashion? No. The behavior doesn't link up and if another event like this happened, we could safely say where there's smoke there's fire. But he deserves the benefit of the doubt in this instance.

This kid needs someone to scan his computer for trojan viruses, not steal $25 from him and tell him he can't roll imaginary dice.

you're missing the point

the mods have said it was done on Commander's ip. it does not matter if you prove it wasn't him, he is still responsible for the actions taken via his ip.

There are various ways to disguise an IP, via proxies and the such. It wouldnt be such a stretch to assume that something of the like was used. Unfortunately, it is tough to prove if one was used (as their intended use). The bigger point is he is responsible for the actions taken via his account.

lackattack wrote:After studying web proxy use for several months we've discovered that much less than 1% of our membership visits Conquer Club through web proxies and a large portion of this proxy use is by members with multiple accounts. We decided to block access to Conquer Club through web proxies to help our multi hunters enforce the rules and keep out the bad guys.

Gold Knight wrote:

greenoaks wrote:the mods have said it was done on Commander's ip. it does not matter if you prove it wasn't him, he is still responsible for the actions taken via his ip.

There are various ways to disguise an IP, via proxies and the such. It wouldnt be such a stretch to assume that something of the like was used. Unfortunately, it is tough to prove if one was used (as their intended use). The bigger point is he is responsible for the actions taken via his account.

1. Of course one aren't "responsible" for actions "taken via ones IP". First, most people don't have an exclusive IP. Second, even if one does, people tend to play from other places than the IP/comp exclusively allocated by one's ISP.

2. Of course one aren't "responsible" for actions "taken via one's account". Sure, one assumes responsibility for one's appointed account sitters. But I don't see how anyone could possible be held "responsible" for having one's account hijacked (like saying you're responsible for whatever damages caused by your car subsequent a carjacking).

TheForgivenOne wrote:

lackattack wrote:After studying web proxy use for several months we've discovered that much less than 1% of our membership visits Conquer Club through web proxies and a large portion of this proxy use is by members with multiple accounts. We decided to block access to Conquer Club through web proxies to help our multi hunters enforce the rules and keep out the bad guys.

Dude. If you have no clue about what you're saying that is usually a sign that it's better to keep quiet.

I highlighted "web proxies" for you.

alstergren wrote:

Gold Knight wrote:

greenoaks wrote:the mods have said it was done on Commander's ip. it does not matter if you prove it wasn't him, he is still responsible for the actions taken via his ip.

There are various ways to disguise an IP, via proxies and the such. It wouldnt be such a stretch to assume that something of the like was used. Unfortunately, it is tough to prove if one was used (as their intended use). The bigger point is he is responsible for the actions taken via his account.

1. Of course one aren't "responsible" for actions "taken via ones IP". First, most people don't have an exclusive IP. Second, even if one does, people tend to play from other places than the IP/comp exclusively allocated by one's ISP.

2. Of course one aren't "responsible" for actions "taken via one's account". Sure, one assumes responsibility for one's appointed account sitters. But I don't see how anyone could possible be held "responsible" for having one's account hijacked (like saying you're responsible for whatever damages caused by your car subsequent a carjacking).

So basically no one is resposible for anything that happens. If his account has been accessed by someone other than him then I think they have done an awful amount of work to discredit him and then we have to question why him, w2hy not you, why not me etc etc. Why is this not happening more?

i know i am going back to the buddysystem thing was buddy not just busted again because his account was showing no country. so if someone had proxied his ip why was the country showing up ???

so would this not take the proxy theory out of it.

but say if commander does stay logged in like he said and someone else logs into his account whos ip would it show ???

eddie2 wrote:i know i am going back to the buddysystem thing was buddy not just busted again because his account was showing no country. so if someone had proxied his ip why was the country showing up ???

so would this not take the proxy theory out of it.

but say if commander does stay logged in like he said and someone else logs into his account whos ip would it show ???

the new person who logged in

what I know about Commander, he would never do thing like this. he is one noteworthy member of CC, and really honorable player. throughout pages, many people said similar things about him. I am sure if he had some issues in past or some nonhonorable things done, now many his haters would come here and make his situation as many as possible worse. but almost every post is about his defense, and I think moderators should consider this when decide how to solve the case. he really is a noteworthy and honor guy, isnt it obvious from every players' who knows him comments?

from the other side, evidence shows it was his IP, but I think it is not proven that it was really him, as it could be done on many other ways from his IP. also, it is possible that IP check can make mistake. if IP check is 100% correct, how then country of [player]BlueBell[/player] is "Anonymous Proxy"?

so, using these facts like valid for conclusions:

1) it was his IP adress, proven by IP check
2) it wasnt him playing, told by him, which I believe due to his reputation and image he built for years, which was always good and fair. (there are many ways how someone else may unintentionally play from his IP, maybe even his brother by just clicking at account which wasnt logged off, unaware what he did at that time, as he is mentally incapable so his behavior is unexpected and unpredicatable)

1) and 2) are my conclusions made by reading last several pages. if it is correct, I think no more than warning he should get because:

3) he did mistake by not logging off from account and therefore allowing unwanted person to come there.
4) his mistake in any way wasnt intentionally, nor with a plan to achieve anything unfair with that.

josko.ri wrote:from the other side, evidence shows it was his IP, but I think it is not proven that it was really him, as it could be done on many other ways from his IP. also, it is possible that IP check can make mistake. if IP check is 100% correct, how then country of [player]BlueBell[/player] is "Anonymous Proxy"?

because , oh chips it, help tab
6. My country flag is wrong. Can I change it?

Your country is determined automatically by looking up your IP address in a GeoIP database. It isn't meant to reflect your nationality. Furthermore, the database is only 99% accurate so some members may show an incorrect location. Unfortunately there is no way to override your country flag.


anyways, this is how it goes. pointdumping is withnissed. hunters look at/for evidence in the mean time user is blocked from making new games. verdict is made guily/cleared/otherwise. appeal verdict if you disagree. if you disagree at least give evidence countering the observations made. this is no secret police mindreading scam. mistakes are made, and set right as best they can.

greenoaks wrote:you're missing the point

the mods have said it was done on Commander's ip. it does not matter if you prove it wasn't him, he is still responsible for the actions taken via his ip.

To hold someone guilty for the sake of saying "we got him" is a terrible policy. I understand some evidence points at his computer but there is absolutely no motive nor logical reason for his actions while in a case like Blitz, we can see he was inflating his own points.

Just because you found me in my house after I called and told you it had been broken into doesn't mean I'm the one who did it. Hell, I could have just gotten home and found someone there and my prints would be the last one on the door knob. Actually I'm curious if the IP log reveals any weird IP addresses prior to the times in question and how it handles accounts being from multiple locations accessed at a time. Feasible that one party logged in and waited.

It's only a game... I am sure Commander62890 will get on with life just fine.

As unfair as it is, you have to understand the multi hunters reasoning on this case and respect that they are doing everything they can.

If Commander has proof he didn't do it, he will be let off.

Simples
x

LFAW wrote:It's only a game... I am sure Commander62890 will get on with life just fine.

As unfair as it is, you have to understand the multi hunters reasoning on this case and respect that they are doing everything they can.

If Commander has proof he didn't do it, he will be let off.

Simples
x

What proof can he show? You want his teacher or parents to vouch that he left for school by then? How would CC verify it? Yeah life goes on but it's a shit way to shaft someone who has already been shafted.