Americans

[Anarchist]

"Im proud to be an American,
Cause atleast I know Im free!"

[pancakemix]

Wow... Jake, you've got the best debating skills I've ever seen...

[0ojakeo0]

the purpose of the iraq war was to see if the had a fucking atom bomb and were going to blow us uo. I admit that bush was stupid of staying there after we found there was none. The afganastan i beleve we shouls be there b/c of 9/11

[muy_thaiguy]

the purpose of the iraq war was to see if the had a fucking atom bomb and were going to blow us uo. I admit that bush was stupid of staying there after we found there was none. The afganastan i beleve we shouls be there b/c of 9/11

not quite an A-bomb, just any WMD really (biological or chemical are considered WMDs as well).

[mushin]

Actually, the "point" of the Iraq war was two fold from a tactical standpoint.

Point 1)
If the terrorists are fighting a war in Iraq, they aren't fighting a war in America. (of course there were no terrorists in Iraq before the war, but that is neither here nor there)

Point 2)
By creating a democratic Iraq, it would inject a voice of moderation into Middle Eastern Affairs. (forget the fact that the only way Saddam Hussein could keep the peace was by being a sadistic tyrant.)

Point 3)
A thankful Iraq would give us a place to station our troops to battle both terrorists and rogue regimes (that thankful part is working for us ain't it)

Point 4)
A stable oil producing Iraq would finally allow us to become independant from the true finacial backers of Al Queda, friggin Saudi Arabia, or best friend in the middle east. (Again, piss poor planning on how to actually do all this has resulted in a total loss)

The WMD was a sell job. Miltarily, we don't care one way or another. Without a delivery system, Iraq could not threaten the US. and any delivery system would have had a tomahawk missle sent to say hello with love from the US Navy.

Good plan, too bad it wasn't thought through or planned for. Friggin Bush.

[0ojakeo0]

bush hasnt been that bad as a president that everybody says

[mushin]

I've served in the Navy under both Bush and Clinton. As strange as it sounds, life in the military was much better under Clinton. The raises were higher. The officers were of higher quality, and most things made some sort of sense when applied to the real world. I have watched Rumsfeld, Bush, and Cheney do things to my Navy that I didn't think was possible. I have personally been to Basra Iraq to serve my country. I am not saying that everything that Bush has done is bad. No Child left Behind is a good idea, if it does need to be tweaked, but I can think of 3564 reasons (with 4 more reasons pending) as of 1545, 27Jun07 why Bush is a total Douche bag.

[spurgistan]

bush hasnt been that bad as a president that everybody says

Agreed, the bar is rather low... so maybe he's not an embarrassment to the office... shall we agree on "piss-poor excuse for a leader?" That avoids the anguish of recalling all the other bad leaders that have managed to get elected to that great office, somehow.

[mushin]

bush hasnt been that bad as a president that everybody says

Agreed, the bar is rather low... so maybe he's not an embarrassment to the office... shall we agree on "piss-poor excuse for a leader?" That avoids the anguish of recalling all the other bad leaders that have managed to get elected to that great office, somehow.

Yes, we wouldn't want to talk about Taft

[0ojakeo0]

i mean he did lead ur through 9/11

[spurgistan]

bush hasnt been that bad as a president that everybody says

Agreed, the bar is rather low... so maybe he's not an embarrassment to the office... shall we agree on "piss-poor excuse for a leader?" That avoids the anguish of recalling all the other bad leaders that have managed to get elected to that great office, somehow.

Yes, we wouldn't want to talk about Taft

He was FAT.

[mushin]

i mean he did lead ur through 9/11

My kid brought his mother a rose the other day. We gave him a hug. Then he slapped the kid next to him at school. We gave him a beat down.

Yes he did a good thing in how he handled both Al Queda an Afghanistan initially. Then he put on his spurs, his speacial intelligence reading glasses, and sent me and my shipmates to a war where we are dying, Iraqis are dying, and nothing good has yet to come from it yet.

Do you realize that the DOD lost 30 tons of US $100 dollar bills in Iraq. 30 tons? Where did that money come from?

So not only did he get a bunch of Americans killed, he took the money that could have been used (30 tons of it) on either hunting Bin Laden or giving every American a lifetime pass to friggin Disneyworld, and threw it into the wind in a desert half the world away.

I say it's time for a smack down.

[Anarchist]

i mean he did lead ur through 9/11

hopeless, Jesus got us through the dark ages

[ritz627]

i mean he did lead ur through 9/11

Yea, and he did a bang-up job leading us through Katrina too, eh?

[0ojakeo0]

tru tru

[ritz627]

the purpose of the iraq war was to see if the had a fucking atom bomb and were going to blow us uo. I admit that bush was stupid of staying there after we found there was none. The afganastan i beleve we shouls be there b/c of 9/11

Alright you clearly have no idea what you are saying. You are very misinformed and not to mention spelt Afghanistan horrendously. You have no idea what you are talking about, probably due to the fact that you are 12. And for how old you are, you really shouldn't be saying f*ck. I think everyone else did a fair job of answering you though.

[ritz627]

Also, Bush and company have been pretty darn corrupt:

* Dick Cheney's secretive Energy Task Force was investigated by the GAO and the case is currently pending at the Supreme Court.
* The Homeland and Lilly Protection Act
* The Plame leak, under investigation by the Justice Department.
* Bush's Medicare scam and the circumstances that led the administration to lie to Congress about the cost of the legislation is under investigation by the HHS inspector general's office.
* The massive intelligence failure that led Bush to lie to the world about -the Iraqi threat is under investigation by a congressionally-authorized independent commission (which Bush fought the creation of).
* Bribes offered on the House floor to Rep. Nick Smith (R-Mich.) in -exchange for his vote on Bush's Medicare plan are under investigation by the House Ethics Committee and the Justice Department.
* Attorney General John Ashcroft was under investigation by the Federal Election Commission for violating campaign finance laws in 2000, and the FEC concluded that Ashcroft accepted $110,000 in illegal contributions.
* An investigation into House Majority Leader Tom DeLay's criminal fundraising schemes in Texas -- which allegedly used corporate funds to help state GOP lawmakers -- is already before a Texas grand jury.
* Republican staffers on the Senate Judiciary Committee were investigated for stealing thousands of confidential memos from Dem computers, a matter that has now been referred to the Justice Department for a possible criminal probe.
* Republican Connecticut Gov. John Rowland is under a criminal investigation (and an impeachment investigation) after he lied about prominent state contractors and several government aides paying for refurbishments to his lake-front cottage.
* Former Rep. Bill Janklow (R-S.D.) was under investigation for vehicular manslaughter, a crime for which he was later convicted.
* The Pentagon launched a formal investigation into well-armed evangelist and three-star General William G. Boykin, Bush's pick for deputy undersecretary of defense for intelligence, and his record of extreme religious rhetoric.
* The circumstances that led to the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001 are under investigation by a congressionally-authorized independent commission (which, again, Bush fought the creation of and then later resisted cooperating with); and subsequently the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States
* And honorable mentions should go, of course, to investigations into Halliburton (Dick Cheney's former company) and Enron (George Bush's biggest corporate supporter).


Courtesy of sourcewatch.org

and there are more, this was just in the last three years, there is of course:

-The firing of numerous attoney's believed by the Bush Adminstration to be not Bush-friendly enough.

-Jack Abramoff scandals

-All of that Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo Bay stuff.

[Anarchist]

Theres a lot more actually, I dont know whats scarier the fact that he was "elected" twice. All the things they have gotten away with, or the fact that there are people who still support them.

[Jenos Ridan]

i mean he did lead ur through 9/11

hopeless, Jesus got us through the dark ages

Is that supposed to be a slam?

[Anarchist]

Not against Jesus, mostly against the church whom the dark ages is named after.

You know like Bush being raised as a hero for not doing his job in the first place, then becoming the terrorist himself.

Let it be noted on the record that every time I have made a anti-christian remark it has been directed towards the church, whom i do not recognise as the voice of god(that voice is in my head and in my heart)

"In order to meet his equal an irishman is forced to speak to the almighty"

[mushin]

Also, Bush and company have been pretty darn corrupt:

* Dick Cheney's secretive Energy Task Force was investigated by the GAO and the case is currently pending at the Supreme Court.
* The Homeland and Lilly Protection Act
* The Plame leak, under investigation by the Justice Department.
* Bush's Medicare scam and the circumstances that led the administration to lie to Congress about the cost of the legislation is under investigation by the HHS inspector general's office.
* The massive intelligence failure that led Bush to lie to the world about -the Iraqi threat is under investigation by a congressionally-authorized independent commission (which Bush fought the creation of).
* Bribes offered on the House floor to Rep. Nick Smith (R-Mich.) in -exchange for his vote on Bush's Medicare plan are under investigation by the House Ethics Committee and the Justice Department.
* Attorney General John Ashcroft was under investigation by the Federal Election Commission for violating campaign finance laws in 2000, and the FEC concluded that Ashcroft accepted $110,000 in illegal contributions.
* An investigation into House Majority Leader Tom DeLay's criminal fundraising schemes in Texas -- which allegedly used corporate funds to help state GOP lawmakers -- is already before a Texas grand jury.
* Republican staffers on the Senate Judiciary Committee were investigated for stealing thousands of confidential memos from Dem computers, a matter that has now been referred to the Justice Department for a possible criminal probe.
* Republican Connecticut Gov. John Rowland is under a criminal investigation (and an impeachment investigation) after he lied about prominent state contractors and several government aides paying for refurbishments to his lake-front cottage.
* Former Rep. Bill Janklow (R-S.D.) was under investigation for vehicular manslaughter, a crime for which he was later convicted.
* The Pentagon launched a formal investigation into well-armed evangelist and three-star General William G. Boykin, Bush's pick for deputy undersecretary of defense for intelligence, and his record of extreme religious rhetoric.
* The circumstances that led to the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001 are under investigation by a congressionally-authorized independent commission (which, again, Bush fought the creation of and then later resisted cooperating with); and subsequently the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States
* And honorable mentions should go, of course, to investigations into Halliburton (Dick Cheney's former company) and Enron (George Bush's biggest corporate supporter).


Courtesy of sourcewatch.org

and there are more, this was just in the last three years, there is of course:

-The firing of numerous attoney's believed by the Bush Adminstration to be not Bush-friendly enough.

-Jack Abramoff scandals

-All of that Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo Bay stuff.

Don't forget:

*Secret CIA prisons

*Warrantless wiretapping

*Total disregard for the Genevea Conventions

*politicizing the Justice Department

*Fixing an United States Presidental election

[MeDeFe]

Speaking of blunders, does anyone have a link to the CIA report that was made public a few days ago? I mean the one where they had recorded all the instances when they broke either national or international laws.

[mushin]

http://www.foia.cia.gov/

[Jenos Ridan]

Not against Jesus, mostly against the church whom the dark ages is named after.

You know like Bush being raised as a hero for not doing his job in the first place, then becoming the terrorist himself.

Let it be noted on the record that every time I have made a anti-christian remark it has been directed towards the church, whom i do not recognise as the voice of god(that voice is in my head and in my heart)

"In order to meet his equal an irishman is forced to speak to the almighty"

Ok.

I understand.

Good quote.

But concider, Christian monks preserved a lot of ancient knowledge from destruction. The Church at that time as a whole, saved alot of it. Don't forget the Byzantines, who were in many ways the Roman Empire that survived until the vile Turks conquered it. The dark ages were the fault of pagan barbarians and poor political and strategic decisions by the western empire, not the church.

[autoload]

I am glad to see everybody is happy now.