Conquer Club

jay_a2j wrote:The reason Christianity is divided up into many denominations is because man has a way of screwing things up. Denominations are man-made. Gods Word is perfect, without flaw. Now, where some denominations have small differences in interpretation they all agree on the basics; that Jesus is the Son of God, that He died for our sins and the only way to enter Gods kingdom is through Jesus. Then there are those who interpret Gods word in a way that distorts the Word of God. Jehovah Witnesses for example, believe that Jesus is less than God. They interpret (or twist) "The Father and I are one" to mean one in "spirit", not one in the same. Denying Jesus' equal staus with the Father.

For the record, I don't count Jehovah's Witnesses or LDS as Christians, but that's a moot point.

In any event, as a Catholic I must point out that while God's Word is perfect, the Bible is not necessarily without flaw. The Bible was written by man, and DIVINELY INSPIRED by God; God did not directly write it. This is not to underplay the importance of the Bible, but I find it essential to note this technicality. The Bible is nothing without the Church, sort of like how the law is nothing without the courts.


EDIT

On a less doctrinal note, I have something to say about this:

Mirak wrote:

jay_a2j wrote:Judiasm, Islam and Christianity.

Judiasm is an incomplete faith, not wrong just incomplete. It was prophesied that "He would be rejected by His own people" and predicted in the OT or Torah. The Jews rejected Jesus as Messiah (as predicted) but some of them recognize Jesus as Messiah today and more will in the future.

Islam is a false religion. They put Jesus at a mere "prophet" level, not Devine at all. Gods Word tells us that there will be many false teachings and the list is long...David Koresh is on that list.


Christianity

Jesus said "I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me."

Jay
There are very few things as hypocritical and ugly as an obviously religious person showing contempt for other religions...
I somehow expected more from you

He's not showing contempt for any religion, he's stating what he believes. And I believe the same things. I believe that Muslims are wrong in not recognizing the divinity of Christ. I believe Jehovah's Witnesses are wrong in putting Christ on a different level as God. I believe Mormons are wrong in the belief that a human can become a god.

Just because Jay and I think these religions are WRONG or "false" doesn't mean we have "contempt" for them. It means we disagree with them, much as how we disagree with you.

OnlyAmbrose wrote:
For the record, I don't count Jehovah's Witnesses or LDS as Christians, but that's a moot point.

Neither do I , but they wrongly label themselves as "Christian" and for an unbeliever they may not be aware of why cults are cults.

OnlyAmbrose wrote:EDIT

On a less doctrinal note, I have something to say about this:

Mirak wrote:

jay_a2j wrote:Judiasm, Islam and Christianity.

Judiasm is an incomplete faith, not wrong just incomplete. It was prophesied that "He would be rejected by His own people" and predicted in the OT or Torah. The Jews rejected Jesus as Messiah (as predicted) but some of them recognize Jesus as Messiah today and more will in the future.

Islam is a false religion. They put Jesus at a mere "prophet" level, not Devine at all. Gods Word tells us that there will be many false teachings and the list is long...David Koresh is on that list.


Christianity

Jesus said "I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me."

Jay
There are very few things as hypocritical and ugly as an obviously religious person showing contempt for other religions...
I somehow expected more from you

He's not showing contempt for any religion, he's stating what he believes. And I believe the same things. I believe that Muslims are wrong in not recognizing the divinity of Christ. I believe Jehovah's Witnesses are wrong in putting Christ on a different level as God. I believe Mormons are wrong in the belief that a human can become a god.

Just because Jay and I think these religions are WRONG or "false" doesn't mean we have "contempt" for them. It means we disagree with them, much as how we disagree with you.

I would say that writing off two of the worlds great religions as "incomplete" and "false" shows a little bit of contempt to say the least

Either the three main religions are all valid or not
Yes there are differences in emphasis and interpretation but the underlying message is the same....they all worship the same God

How can you convince anyone of the existence of God when you seem to be jumping up and down saying my God is better than theirs?

I for one am contemptuous of all religions..at least I'm consistent

If the nature of God is what you profess, then he should need no assistance in getting his message across

Mirak wrote:

OnlyAmbrose wrote:EDIT

On a less doctrinal note, I have something to say about this:

Mirak wrote:

jay_a2j wrote:Judiasm, Islam and Christianity.

Judiasm is an incomplete faith, not wrong just incomplete. It was prophesied that "He would be rejected by His own people" and predicted in the OT or Torah. The Jews rejected Jesus as Messiah (as predicted) but some of them recognize Jesus as Messiah today and more will in the future.

Islam is a false religion. They put Jesus at a mere "prophet" level, not Devine at all. Gods Word tells us that there will be many false teachings and the list is long...David Koresh is on that list.


Christianity

Jesus said "I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me."

Jay
There are very few things as hypocritical and ugly as an obviously religious person showing contempt for other religions...
I somehow expected more from you

He's not showing contempt for any religion, he's stating what he believes. And I believe the same things. I believe that Muslims are wrong in not recognizing the divinity of Christ. I believe Jehovah's Witnesses are wrong in putting Christ on a different level as God. I believe Mormons are wrong in the belief that a human can become a god.

Just because Jay and I think these religions are WRONG or "false" doesn't mean we have "contempt" for them. It means we disagree with them, much as how we disagree with you.

I would say that writing off two of the worlds great religions as "incomplete" and "false" shows a little bit of contempt to say the least

Either the three main religions are all valid or not
Yes there are differences in emphasis and interpretation but the underlying message is the same....they all worship the same God

How can you convince anyone of the existence of God when you seem to be jumping up and down saying my God is better than theirs?

I for one am contemptuous of all religions..at least I'm consistent

If the nature of God is what you profess, then he should need no assistance in getting his message across

That's absurd. Of COURSE we believe they are incomplete. We're Christians and believe that without Christ you CANNOT be complete. I don't see how that means we harbor contempt for them; according to the Bible we should harbor contempt for no one, but rather love them, but that doesn't change the fact that they are not correct. I don't see why it's impossible to say someone is wrong without contempt for them.

As for the "same God" thing, I honestly don't understand why people insist on repeating it. It's a moot point. The "Christian God" is three parts; Father Son and Holy Spirit. The Muslim and Jewish "Gods" don't acknowledge the latter two.

jay_a2j wrote:Neither do I , but they wrongly label themselves as "Christian" and for an unbeliever they may not be aware of why cults are cults.

Cults?!

Irony Meter! Pegged out!

To atheists and agnostics:

Do you find theism (Christianity particularly) to be too pessimistic or too optemistic in its views? If so, why?

If it was true that God exists, would you believe it?

-WT


To theists:

I think it is important not to become too pessimistic in the expression of our faith. There is also danger in being too optimistic. We should be both optimistic and pessimistic, but not so that either becomes deluted. Let us not say that the world has some good and some bad in it, so everything is okay. But let us say that we hate the world enough to change it, and love the world enough to think it is worth changing.

If it was true that God did not exist, would you believe it?

-WT

What about people that don't fall into either category, such as Discordians or SubGenii?

WintersTwilight wrote:To theists:

...

If it was true that God did not exist, would you believe it?

-WT

That's an odd question.

...

And after about a minute of thinking on how to approach it, I can't come up with a presentable answer.

It's a trick question. If you answer yes, you have too little faith. If you answer no, you have too much.

WintersTwilight wrote:To atheists and agnostics:

Do you find theism (Christianity particularly) to be too pessimistic or too optemistic in its views? If so, why?

If it was true that God exists, would you believe it?

-WT

I find cristianity to be overly pessimistic, as it proffeses that you can have an eternity of torture for little things, like not getting christened (which you have no power over) and any kind of sin which you don't repent (again this is nearly impossible to avoid as nearly everything is a "sin")

if it was absolutely true that god existed, of course i would believe it, as it would be a fact and the idea of god is interesting.

Note: i am not an "athiest" as such, i am a humanist-agnostic and the only reason i am arguing with the thiests is that they are forcing their beliefs on people and as such deserve to have everything they say about religion contradicted.

WintersTwilight wrote:To atheists and agnostics:

Do you find theism (Christianity particularly) to be too pessimistic or too optemistic in its views? If so, why?

If it was true that God exists, would you believe it?

-WT

Yeah, it's a bit pessimistic, compared with say, Islam. Islam says the afterlife for some people consists of spending time in eternity with 72 virgins - or, according to some scholars, dates. Either prospect, spending eternity deflowering virgins or eating tasty dates, sounds more appealing to me than spending eternity sitting on a cloud playing a harp.

As to the second question, 'course I would. Just a pity it probably isn't true. Was that meant to be a trick question or summat? How feeble.

and with a better understanding of What God IS- no one with half a mind would be in disagreement. It would be the end of all debate, division in faith (or "religion" in its true purpose)

God is the positive energy that creates,evolves, and sustains all life. Satan is the bitching and drama that goes along with it- as well as the negative that stands in the way of perfection.

mr. incrediball wrote:

WintersTwilight wrote:To atheists and agnostics:

Do you find theism (Christianity particularly) to be too pessimistic or too optemistic in its views? If so, why?

If it was true that God exists, would you believe it?

-WT

I find cristianity to be overly pessimistic, as it proffeses that you can have an eternity of torture for little things, like not getting christened (which you have no power over) and any kind of sin which you don't repent (again this is nearly impossible to avoid as nearly everything is a "sin")

Sin is anything that is against Gods way. I was just having a converstaion about this, last night. Everyone sins, Christians included. I was thinking that 70 or so years of commiting sin is not a long time compared to the eternity in Hell paying for that sin. So, I could be wrong but a thought crossed my mind, although we should refrain from sinning, it is the rejection of God that sends us to Hell. Because its a choice... "Believe in me and follow me and if you ask me for forgiveness of your sin, I will. But if you reject me you can not have forgiveness of sin and you will live apart from me by your choice in Hell." Gods desire is that none of us go to Hell. He doesn't want to be rejected but He has given us the ability to choose.

spending eternity sitting on a cloud playing a harp.

Thats a misconception. We won't be sitting on a cloud playing a harp.

mr. incrediball wrote:

WintersTwilight wrote:To atheists and agnostics:

Do you find theism (Christianity particularly) to be too pessimistic or too optemistic in its views? If so, why?

If it was true that God exists, would you believe it?

-WT

I find cristianity to be overly pessimistic, as it proffeses that you can have an eternity of torture for little things, like not getting christened (which you have no power over) and any kind of sin which you don't repent (again this is nearly impossible to avoid as nearly everything is a "sin")

if it was absolutely true that god existed, of course i would believe it, as it would be a fact and the idea of god is interesting.

Note: i am not an "athiest" as such, i am a humanist-agnostic and the only reason i am arguing with the thiests is that they are forcing their beliefs on people and as such deserve to have everything they say about religion contradicted.

This brings up a good point though. Christians, most especially fundamentalists, ARE extremely pessimistic regarding everyone's salvation but their own. I'm probably guilty of such feelings as well. But if you think about it, such misguided feelings of righteousness are exactly what the Biblical pharisees, whom Jesus spoke so much against, felt and showed. We do need to be careful in that sense.

c00ster wrote:God is the positive energy that creates,evolves, and sustains all life. Satan is the bitching and drama that goes along with it- as well as the negative that stands in the way of perfection.

Wait a minute...are you are saying that your god & your satan are just concepts and not actual physical beings?

there isn't a god its not really that i dont see i dont believe in him

its more like its a control like evrey thing else in the world

its just there to give u a sence of hope

cause no 1 wants to die and thats it ur dead people want there to be somthing else and it was there so people didn't do bad shit cause if u do good shit u go to heaven and every things perfect every 1's happy

last time i checked it ws the mind that made me have feelings and last time i checked when u die ur mind gets destroyed

and hell was just made up so u didn't do bad shit

but yet people who sine all the time still thin there going to heaven for some fucked up reason

and why do u cry at funerals cause u no heaven and ur entire religions a lie and that ur never going to see them again

cause if heaven did exsist u would be happy there dead
cause then they would be going to a world of perfectness

and all that thking god and asking god for shit is full of crap cause hes never going to do jack shit for u cause god can not inflict on free will

if u realy look at it ur god and ur entire lifes a lie and u'll finally realize every thing that u did and wat happened to u IS ur falt

god can lick my balls

devilseyesdd wrote:there isn't a god its not really that i dont see i dont believe in him

its more like its a control like evrey thing else in the world

its just there to give u a sence of hope

cause no 1 wants to die and thats it ur dead people want there to be somthing else and it was there so people didn't do bad shit cause if u do good shit u go to heaven and every things perfect every 1's happy

last time i checked it ws the mind that made me have feelings and last time i checked when u die ur mind gets destroyed

and hell was just made up so u didn't do bad shit

but yet people who sine all the time still thin there going to heaven for some fucked up reason

and why do u cry at funerals cause u no heaven and ur entire religions a lie and that ur never going to see them again

cause if heaven did exsist u would be happy there dead
cause then they would be going to a world of perfectness

and all that thking god and asking god for shit is full of crap cause hes never going to do jack shit for u cause god can not inflict on free will

if u realy look at it ur god and ur entire lifes a lie and u'll finally realize every thing that u did and wat happened to u IS ur falt

god can lick my balls

Either learn how to spell, take your time when posting, or get off the atheists' side. You make them look like jabbering idiots.

f*ck u and f*ck spelling

some of the words are just shortened jack ass

and no im not an idiot

cause theres facts there

last time i check every 1 i argue with relates every thing to the bible
the bible that was writen 70 YEARS after Jesus died

and wat stoies [lies] do u believe in that u think gods real

vtmarik wrote:
Either learn how to spell, take your time when posting, or get off the atheists' side. You make them look like jabbering idiots.

Ah, you do have a sense of humor! lol.


And his spelling was compounded by the sheer ignorance of God.

* "the Bible was written 70 years after Jesus died" The entire OT was written before He was born.

* you cry at funerals because you miss them, not because "you know you will never see them again".

jay_a2j wrote:Sin is anything that is against Gods way. I was just having a converstaion about this, last night. Everyone sins, Christians included. I was thinking that 70 or so years of commiting sin is not a long time compared to the eternity in Hell paying for that sin. So, I could be wrong but a thought crossed my mind, although we should refrain from sinning, it is the rejection of God that sends us to Hell. Because its a choice... "Believe in me and follow me and if you ask me for forgiveness of your sin, I will. But if you reject me you can not have forgiveness of sin and you will live apart from me by your choice in Hell." Gods desire is that none of us go to Hell. He doesn't want to be rejected but He has given us the ability to choose.

If he wants to be recognised and loved why doesn't he just step forward....Why all the cloak and dagger...why act like a little girl who just got a crush on the boy next door...step forward introduce yourself and simply demonstrate that you are the almighty and problem over...

devilseyesdd wrote:f*ck u and f*ck spelling

some of the words are just shortened jack ass

This isn't a chat room or an IM, you don't need to shorten words. Forgive me for desiring the basic ability to write out "you" from people joining into a debate.

well i was typeing and i cant spell i rush and dont feel like fixing mistakes and i shorten words so i type less

devilseyesdd wrote:well i was typeing and i cant spell i rush and dont feel like fixing mistakes and i shorten words so i type less

If you want to type less, how about just not typing at all. I can type quite quickly and yet spell correctly and not shorten words. It's Amazing!


I'm sorry to the actual participants in this thread for this interruption, we can now resume where we all left off.

f*ck u
i do feel like expressing my opinion dick
cause i do think alot i just dont site hear and think about small mistakes i make when spelling people should use there imagination a little instead of bitching about some little spelling error i fucking made

Mirak wrote:
If he wants to be recognised and loved why doesn't he just step forward....Why all the cloak and dagger...why act like a little girl who just got a crush on the boy next door...step forward introduce yourself and simply demonstrate that you are the almighty and problem over...

He did. Some 2000 years ago.