Duck & Cover [Quenched]

oaktown · Post by **oaktown** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 8:38 pm

Again, only minor changes. Here's what's new:
• Large map is now 675x675, which I think is kind of ridiculous for a 24 territory map, but I'm trying to abide by the new size recommendations. The large map is now 18% larger than the small - barely half of the 33% recommended - but I can't go much bigger because it already exceeds the recommended height by 75 pixels. Damned if I do, damned if I don't I guess.
• Reworded the bombardment texts a bit... does it need to be even more clear, since it does impact game play?
• Changed the color of a couple of elements.
• Hulmey has declared that this map sucks... thanks for the thoughtful and constructive feedback. :roll:

Question for everybody: in light of the Midkemia copyright trouble, do we think that I should pen new lyrics for this map? As stated early, the movie and the images are not copyrighted - the copyright was allowed to lapse - but the copyright on the song was renewed in the 1970s by the family of the author, now deceased. Thoughts??

RjBeals · Post by **RjBeals** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 8:42 pm

I just watched this video on google videos. Man that's pretty funny. But I don't know oaktown. I would say to be on the safe side, reword just a little. You can think of something creative to work. By the way, this map is fantastic and It really should be in final forge soon. Good work.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 5902818197

Chirondom · Post by **Chirondom** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 8:48 pm

Maybe replace Bert with kurt? Would that deal with the problems?

Contron13542 · Post by **Contron13542** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 8:58 pm

I absolutely love the idea of this map, I would play every chance I got, but there have to be some small changes but otherwise its great.

oaktown · Post by **oaktown** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 9:16 pm

Contron13542 wrote:I absolutely love the idea of this map, I would play every chance I got, but there have to be some small changes but otherwise its great.

Such as?? That's where I'm at - tell me what those small changes are.

domination dude · Post by **domination dude** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 10:29 pm

maybe u should put a link between se asia and mexico or india to mexico so who evr is down to like their last 2 guys in america but has like six guys in se asia can abandon the us :idea:

d.gishman · Post by **d.gishman** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 11:09 pm

oaktown wrote:
Contron13542 wrote:I absolutely love the idea of this map, I would play every chance I got, but there have to be some small changes but otherwise its great.

Such as?? That's where I'm at - tell me what those small changes are.

the current mushroom clouds are worse than the previous; it is truly a step backwards

unriggable · Post by **unriggable** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 11:14 pm

domination dude wrote:maybe u should put a link between se asia and mexico or india to mexico so who evr is down to like their last 2 guys in america but has like six guys in se asia can abandon the us

Eh, no.

North America has so many borders without your idea, it would only make things impossible to conquer.

lord voldemort · Post by **lord voldemort** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 11:18 pm

domination dude wrote:maybe u should put a link between se asia and mexico or india to mexico so who evr is down to like their last 2 guys in america but has like six guys in se asia can abandon the us

thats been talked about, some original versions had the mexico and se asia land going off the map and there was the confusion of the terrs connecting. i dnt think they should, cause it messes with terr bonus, as it is its nice and even and should be really fun to play. im liking this more than doodle

the copyright issues, maybe need to re-word, or change the name of burt??

Unit_2 · Post by **Unit_2** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 11:27 pm

its looking pritty good oak, good job. But why is a territory names Persia? its Iran not Persia.(I know EVERYTHING about the Persian Empire and everthing to do with history for that matter

)

unriggable · Post by **unriggable** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 11:34 pm

Unit_2 wrote:its looking pritty good oak, good job. But why is a territory names Persia? its Iran not Persia.(I know EVERYTHING about the Persian Empire and everthing to do with history for that matter )

When was Mussolini born.

oaktown · Post by **oaktown** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:31 am

Unit_2 wrote:why is a territory names Persia? its Iran not Persia.(I know EVERYTHING about the Persian Empire and everthing to do with history for that matter )

Since you know everything about history, you will know that Iran is the term used by Iranians to refer to the country, while Persia is a western construct. In the 1930s the Shah declared that his country should henceforth be known as Iran, but nomenclature doesn't change overnight and the world continued to use the old term. In the 1950s the Shah acknowledged the use of both names interchangeably. I guess you are also aware that people in countries beyond Iran also consider themselves Farsi speaking "Persians," just as the former Persian empire extended beyond modern day Iran.

So in answer to your question, I chose to call the area Persia because:
1. this map is from a western point of view
2. the term Persia was still in common use in the 1950s when this map is set, and
3. the territory on this map does not reflect modern day Iran, but also stretches west to include part of Iraq and east to include Baluchistan, Afghanistan, and part of Pakistan - all regions in which a significant percentage of the population identify as Persian.

lord voldemort · Post by **lord voldemort** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:35 am

oaktown wrote:
Unit_2 wrote:why is a territory names Persia? its Iran not Persia.(I know EVERYTHING about the Persian Empire and everthing to do with history for that matter )

Since you know everything about history, you will know that Iran is the term used by Iranians to refer to the country, while Persia is a western construct. In the 1930s the Shah declared that his country should henceforth be known as Iran, but nomenclature doesn't change overnight and the world continued to use the old term. In the 1950s the Shah acknowledged the use of both names interchangeably. I guess you are also aware that people in countries beyond Iran also consider themselves Farsi speaking "Persians," just as the former Persian empire extended beyond modern day Iran.

So in answer to your question, I chose to call the area Persia because:
1. this map is from a western point of view
2. the term Persia was still in common use in the 1950s when this map is set, and
3. the territory on this map does not reflect modern day Iran, but also stretches west to include part of Iraq and east to include Baluchistan, Afghanistan, and part of Pakistan - all regions in which a significant percentage of the population identify as Persian.

ZING

but nah i like wat your doing oak the map is good, looking forward to it being quenched

oaktown · Post by **oaktown** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:50 am

right.

In other news,
• a border from mexico to asia just makes absolutely no sense geographically, and would only serve to make N. America even harder to hold. That player needs Mexico as a non-border country.
• this is the first mushroom cloud that looked the way I'd pictured it in my head, but the jury is still out
• I'll have new lyrics this week. the name Bert isn't the problem as the character isn't copyrighted, but the song lyrics are somebody's intellectual property.
• Why Mussolini? There must be some history behind that question.

yeti_c · Post by **yeti_c** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 4:36 am

I wonder if you should put a bit of Ice in the middle to represent the North Pole... (That definitely still existed in the 50's!!)

Or would that make it too cluttered?!

C.

What would be ace (It's not possible) was if international borders were opened up after the first nuclear salvo was launched!!

Pre nuclear salvo movement would be restricted to same colour states!!

oaktown · Post by **oaktown** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:39 pm

updates:
• New song lyrics! Now they are not only copyright safe, but ConquerClub specific.
• I did preliminary army count centering in the XML to see where things bumped... had to move a few territory titles and one mushroom cloud (East. USA) to make space for the numbers.

I just noticed the bottom border doesn't look as thick as the others... easy fix.

Rogue42 · Post by **Rogue42** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 1:10 pm

Great, looking forward to playing this one. Though I kinda miss the multiple bombers...

spiesr · Post by **spiesr** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 1:43 pm

Can you mover the Korea name downa little bit so it doesn't touch the border the way it does?

yamahafazer · Post by **yamahafazer** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 6:25 am

Nice work ocktown

t.e.c · Post by **t.e.c** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 6:31 am

this is looking great, can't wait to play it!

insomniacdude · Post by **insomniacdude** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 12:20 pm

The USA only bonus doesn't apply to Alaska, correct?

Either way, you might want to distinguish that in the key.

yeti_c · Post by **yeti_c** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 3:12 pm

insomniacdude wrote:The USA only bonus doesn't apply to Alaska, correct?

Either way, you might want to distinguish that in the key.

That's what the little *'s are for...

C.

AndyDufresne · Post by **AndyDufresne** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 4:56 pm

On the "USA Only" in the legend, perhaps add another star * between 'Usa' and 'Only', (maybe moving over the one in the O in only), and maybe on more before the '+2' just for good measure...then it should be obvious what 'USA Only' is.

--Andy

oaktown · Post by **oaktown** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 5:47 pm

insomniacdude wrote:The USA only bonus doesn't apply to Alaska, correct?

Either way, you might want to distinguish that in the key.

Right, I'll work on making the key a bit more clear.

As noted on an earlier page, Alaska wasn't yet a state at the time of this map.

oaktown · Post by **oaktown** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:54 pm

Little stuff...
• Korea borders bumped out and title moved down, as requested
• Quebec title also off the borders now
• Stars more clear on USA Only legend shape
• Misc. little nudges and word changes