Man arrested for talking about God at CA mall

[PLAYER57832]

If we told inmates that they could not have private conversations about God, they would sue us. CLEAR ENOUGH?

They can talk to certified and approved clergy. They can talk to their attorneys. They can sometimes (not always) talk to visiting family and friends.

They can talk to other prisoners within certain bounds, but all discussions, including those about God are very heavily limited. Talking to other prisoners about God is not an unlimited right.

[comic boy]

Im sure that Jay the prison guard recognises that all the inmates of his jail have the constitutional right to chat to whoever they wish and at any time. Never mind prison regulations , never mind the fact that the inmate had been warned to desist, it is his absolute right to ignore the guard and carry on talking ........thats correct yes Jay ?

Find the nearest wall and do this >>>>>>

Yes Yes, most amusing, now please explain why it is unconstitutional for a security guard to follow his employment guidelines but not when Jay the prison guard does the same ?

If we told inmates that they could not have private conversations about God, they would sue us. CLEAR ENOUGH?

My question did not concern God or any other specific topic, I am merely attempting to dismantle your argument regarding constitutional violation.
So you are saying that there are no limits as to where , when and for how long a prisoner can have a conversation with another group of inmates ?

[jay_a2j]

My question did not concern God or any other specific topic, I am merely attempting to dismantle your argument regarding constitutional violation.
So you are saying that there are no limits as to where , when and for how long a prisoner can have a conversation with another group of inmates ?

You are confusing topics and I have to assume you are doing this on purpose in the hope you can look like some sort of genius by "dismantling" my argument. There is a huge difference between limits for EMPLOYEES by EMPLOYERS and the limits on public behavior.

Because YOU work at McDonald's, YOU can't tell customers to go to BURGER KING. (Your boss would probably fire you) BUT...... Me as a customer in your McDonald's can turn around and tell the customer sitting behind me to go to Burger King because they have better food.


Prisoners have lots of limits, it's the price you pay for breaking the law. They can't talk about a lot of things (gangs, escape, drugs etc.) but it's related to the safety and security of the prison itself. Inmates can not be told NOT to talk about God. (and many of them do) As long as their speech isn't a threat to the security of the prison, they can talk about whatever they want. I have never written an inmate up because they were talking about Jesus, Mohamed, Christianity, Islam, Judaism or any other religious conversation.

[Timminz]

Me as a customer in your McDonald's can turn around and tell the customer sitting behind me to go to Burger King because they have better food.

Sure you can, but don't be surprised if you're asked to leave.

[jonesthecurl]

Me as a customer in your McDonald's can turn around and tell the customer sitting behind me to go to Burger King because they have better food.

Sure you can, but don't be surprised if you're asked to leave.

and if you refuse to leave, don't be surprised if they call security.

[Snorri1234]

Because YOU work at McDonald's, YOU can't tell customers to go to BURGER KING. (Your boss would probably fire you) BUT...... Me as a customer in your McDonald's can turn around and tell the customer sitting behind me to go to Burger King because they have better food.

And the McDonalds is then allowed to ask you to leave the store. You are being intentionally disruptive in a private business. If you refuse to leave while continuing to be disruptive they can call the police.

You are perfectly free to stand on the other side of the road carrying a sign saying people should go to the BK or engage people in conversation about how they should go to BK.


Companies are allowed to discriminate based on actions, Jay. That's not a constitutional violation. Protection for free speech is restricted to public places. You're not allowed to scream racial epiphets at customers, no matter how much you want to. Can't yell "Fire" in a crowded theatre either (unless there's a fire of course). If speech is disruptive a private entity can tell you to leave.

[AAFitz]

Im sure that Jay the prison guard recognises that all the inmates of his jail have the constitutional right to chat to whoever they wish and at any time. Never mind prison regulations , never mind the fact that the inmate had been warned to desist, it is his absolute right to ignore the guard and carry on talking ........thats correct yes Jay ?

Find the nearest wall and do this >>>>>>

Yes Yes, most amusing, now please explain why it is unconstitutional for a security guard to follow his employment guidelines but not when Jay the prison guard does the same ?

If we told inmates that they could not have private conversations about God, they would sue us. CLEAR ENOUGH?

Great. If your hero continues to break the law, he will have plenty of opportunity to preach when he wants. Im assuming that you just open up the cell door, and he can go talk to any inmate or guard about God whenever he wants? Or are there rules about when and where any kind of discussion can happen?

Im surprised more dont asked to be released, just because they want to go talk to the pigeons about god outside the walls... I mean, its about God after all. How can you possibly infringe on his right to do that wherever, and whenever he wants?

[jay_a2j]

Me as a customer in your McDonald's can turn around and tell the customer sitting behind me to go to Burger King because they have better food.

Sure you can, but don't be surprised if you're asked to leave.

and if you refuse to leave, don't be surprised if they call security.

And I'd sue them. They can't make me leave because I have an opinion. They can't make me leave because of what I say in a PRIVATE conversation with someone next to me.


"Hello, can I speak with Mr. Cochran?"

[jay_a2j]

Man, I was just going to reply to AAFit's post but he deleted it. Wise move.

[Snorri1234]

Me as a customer in your McDonald's can turn around and tell the customer sitting behind me to go to Burger King because they have better food.

Sure you can, but don't be surprised if you're asked to leave.

and if you refuse to leave, don't be surprised if they call security.

And I'd sue them. They can't make me leave because I have an opinion. They can't make me leave because of what I say in a PRIVATE conversation with someone next to me.

Hah, I wish you good luck on that.

[jonesthecurl]

Me as a customer in your McDonald's can turn around and tell the customer sitting behind me to go to Burger King because they have better food.

Sure you can, but don't be surprised if you're asked to leave.

and if you refuse to leave, don't be surprised if they call security.

And I'd sue them. They can't make me leave because I have an opinion. They can't make me leave because of what I say in a PRIVATE conversation with someone next to me.


"Hello, can I speak with Mr. Cochran?"

That's just the point. If you go in with a friend and as you're eating, you say "I don't like this as much as Burger King", that's fine. If you accost strangers and tell them they'd be better off eating somewhere else, then it is no longer private, and it IS the MacDonald's business.

Oh god Jay I hate you you've made me defend Mac Donalds. You'll burn in hell for that, even if it's in a hypothetical situation.

[Timminz]

Me as a customer in your McDonald's can turn around and tell the customer sitting behind me to go to Burger King because they have better food.

Sure you can, but don't be surprised if you're asked to leave.

and if you refuse to leave, don't be surprised if they call security.

And I'd sue them. They can't make me leave because I have an opinion. They can't make me leave because of what I say in a PRIVATE conversation with someone next to me.

hahahaha!!!

You really think that you could sue them for that?

Oh right. That's why this thread exists.

[thegreekdog]

The Constitution is written solely for the government. Read it again. Note where it says "Congress shall make no law..." It's pretty cut and dry.

Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness....So if that is ONLY talking about the GOVERNMENT interfering with these things then I guess it's ok to commit murder, enslave our neighbor and force Woody to go to AA meeting. And Freedom of speech apparently only applies if you are in a government building. And the right to keep and bear arms again, only if you are on government property. WOW, you have a very twisted view.

Actually, I believe you are the one with the twisted view.

First of all, "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" is from the Declaration of Independence, not the Constitution.

Second, the government does not have the right to interfere with freedom of speech or the right to bear arms in the sense that they do not have the right to stop you from doing these things (whether you are located in a shopping mall or not). If a private security company that runs mall security decides you are saying things they don't want you to say, they can make you leave. However, they cannot call the cops to get you to leave. Does that make sense? Or are you going to cling to the misguided idea that free speech rules apply to private companies?

[AAFitz]

Me as a customer in your McDonald's can turn around and tell the customer sitting behind me to go to Burger King because they have better food.

Sure you can, but don't be surprised if you're asked to leave.

and if you refuse to leave, don't be surprised if they call security.

And I'd sue them. They can't make me leave because I have an opinion. They can't make me leave because of what I say in a PRIVATE conversation with someone next to me.


"Hello, can I speak with Mr. Cochran?"

Tell you what, talk to an actual lawyer and ask him if you can say whatever you want on someone elses property, and not be asked to leave. Or, just go around preaching about god, global warming, or whatever you want on private property and refuse to leave. Youll have plenty of people to sue.

Lack himself could restrict all discussion of religion in here and ask you to leave. There's no freedom of speech that applies to such things. In fact, if you try to discuss it in callouts, cheating and abuse, questions and answers etc, you will be remanded to use the forum that has been designated for it...Monkey business...lol... If you continue to break the rules, youll be banned...and while you may sue...you will lose....for reasons obvious to anyone, especially Mr. Cochran...though he does specialize in winning for guilty people, so there's no doubt you might have a chance.

Anyways...Jay....ONE more question:

[AAFitz]

Can people go into your church, and start preaching about the rights of Homosexuals to get Married? About their rights to abortion? Or say, preach about Allah, in a Catholic Church?

Or will they be asked to leave, and arrested if they do not?

Its a rhetorical question.

Ok...maybe theres more than one more question too.

[thegreekdog]

To echo what AAFitz has typed, I want you to go into a Mosque and preach about Jesus Christ. When they ask you to leave, try to find a lawyer who will assist you in your law suit. I want you to ask him what tort or contract theory you are suing under, and then let me know.

[Juan_Bottom]

On a somewhat related note, anyone know how many people have been forum banned on this site? Or would that be completely related?

[Juan_Bottom]

I want you to ask him what tort or contract theory you are suing under, and then let me know.

Ummmmmm 7?

[thegreekdog]

I want you to ask him what tort or contract theory you are suing under, and then let me know.

Ummmmmm 7?

Yes, 7.

There are a number of different claims one can make when suing. For example, you can make a claim of breach of contract. You can make a claim of intentional infliction of emotional distress or negligent infliction of emotional distress (these are the only foreseeable suits in my scenario and they would fail on a summary judgment motion and be dismissed). You can claim battery, conversion, loss of consortium, any number of other things. None of them cover free speech. There needs to be state action to have a free speech violation. A mosque is definitely not a representative of the state; therefore, no state action.

[jay_a2j]

Me as a customer in your McDonald's can turn around and tell the customer sitting behind me to go to Burger King because they have better food.

Sure you can, but don't be surprised if you're asked to leave.

and if you refuse to leave, don't be surprised if they call security.

And I'd sue them. They can't make me leave because I have an opinion. They can't make me leave because of what I say in a PRIVATE conversation with someone next to me.


"Hello, can I speak with Mr. Cochran?"

Tell you what, talk to an actual lawyer and ask him if you can say whatever you want on someone elses property, and not be asked to leave. Or, just go around preaching about god, global warming, or whatever you want on private property and refuse to leave. Youll have plenty of people to sue.

Lack himself could restrict all discussion of religion in here and ask you to leave. There's no freedom of speech that applies to such things. In fact, if you try to discuss it in callouts, cheating and abuse, questions and answers etc, you will be remanded to use the forum that has been designated for it...Monkey business...lol... If you continue to break the rules, youll be banned...and while you may sue...you will lose....for reasons obvious to anyone, especially Mr. Cochran...though he does specialize in winning for guilty people, so there's no doubt you might have a chance.

Anyways...Jay....ONE more question:

Let me see if I got this straight. I can be arrested for going to a KKK rally and yelling "RACIST JERKS!" But a radical Islamic Imam can preach "Death to America! The infidels must die!" and that's ok because he is in a mosque?

Can people go into your church, and start preaching about the rights of Homosexuals to get Married? About their rights to abortion? Or say, preach about Allah, in a Catholic Church?

Or will they be asked to leave, and arrested if they do not?

Its a rhetorical question.

Ok...maybe theres more than one more question too.

People don't usually go into a church and just start preaching. Usually the minister of the church does the preaching. If I attended a church where they were condoning gay marriage and homosexuality, I would simply leave and never return.

[thegreekdog]

You cannot be arrested for going to a KKK rally; seriously, it's not that difficult to understand.

[AAFitz]

People don't usually go into a church and just start preaching. Usually the minister of the church does the preaching. If I attended a church where they were condoning gay marriage and homosexuality, I would simply leave and never return.

Kind of like you're just walking away from this question.

The question is not what you would do, but if the church has the right to kick the guy out, and subsequently ask that he be arrested, if he does not stop, or leave.

Of course, the fact that you would leave and never return, is what gives the store owner the right to ask the preacher to leave their property, because patrons hearing some crazy preach, might do the same thing.

Thats ok though... Like I said... its rhetorical... we know the answer, as do you I suspect.

Its not like I expected you to say...oh yeah...that makes sense...I guess I was wrong.

After all...the debate is over...

Oh...and one more thing... people dont usually go into a mall and start preaching either. They go there to shop typically.

You sometimes just make it too easy.

[Woodruff]

Can someone please tell Woody that his words have been banned from my view and that whatever he is babbling about he can stop. I know he desires nothing more than to have dialog with me but he needs to get a life of some sort. I am fully tired of reading his drivel.

Can someone please tell Jay that if he's entirely too stupid not to click on the link in the
"This post was made by Woodruff who is currently on your ignore list. Display this post." statement
or otherwise ignore my posts, then he gets what he so richly deserves? Thanks!

[AAFitz]

Let me see if I got this straight. I can be arrested for going to a KKK rally and yelling "RACIST JERKS!" But a radical Islamic Imam can preach "Death to America! The infidels must die!" and that's ok because he is in a mosque?

I would love to see you get it straight...but you most certainly have not.

This case has nothing to do with what was said or being preached. It has to do with when and where it was said.

Your buddy, was not arrested for preaching gods word. He was arrested for trespassing, when asked to leave for breaking store policy.

He just happened to be preaching gods word at the time. Had he been preaching that the devil was the one true god, or that bananas gave you lots of potassium and that you should eat them daily...hed have been arrested too.

I will actually answer your question though....

You could be arrested for going to a KKK rally and yelling racist jerks. IF, you were on private property, and you didnt leave when asked to do so. On public property however, you could not be arrested soley for speaking your mind, assuming you are not breaking any other laws while doing so...such as unlawful assembly or town by laws governing such things.

And yes, as long as the muslims chants are not meant to incite a riot, or are essentially actually planning illegal activity, they can preach whatever craziness they want, as can you in your place of worship.

On someone elses property however, that is no longer the case.

[jay_a2j]

= Had he been preaching that the devil was the one true god, or that bananas gave you lots of potassium and that you should eat them daily...hed have been arrested too.

prove it.