Conquer Club

Sorry for the delay, guys. Here is Draft the Ninth.



Some major changes here.

-Moved the armies to the left of the squares.
-Made the canvas a bit smaller.
-Clarified the objective to include the "hold for 1 round" bit.
-Rewrote the directions and bonuses entirely, putting them in a box. Also added the note about autodeployment.

Crap, I just noticed now that I forgot to put a note about movement on blank squares. That will be in the next update. Also, I know there's no black knight on the board, I just put him there for symmetry's sake.

I'll put a line above the objective that says something like: "Pieces can attack other pieces of opposite color only. Empty squares attack one square up, down, left, or right." Also, I'll move the white pawn demo circle down 1 square, and the black pawn demo circle up 1 square. However, I think you'll agree that this map looks a lot cleaner than the last version.

One big question: should the board be on the left or the right? Maybe I'll start a poll later.

Fire away.

What about the pawn's diagonal attack? Um.... never mind. It looks like no pawns are in the position where they could make a diagonal attack.

The 9th draft is a big improvement and I like where this one is headed...

...But I don't like that you can't attack the same color - ESPECIALLY - since that is the objective of the game. If you cannot attack between the same color, you basically have to own half the board worth of 'blank' spaces in order to capture all of the 'filled' spaces.

AND - since the blank spaces can only attack vertically and horizontally (why not diagonally?), that makes the object of the game nearly impossible and basically becomes a "blackout" board. Hold 32 territories or BUST.

I understand the idea in staying true to Chess - but I think those two elements ruin the gameplay.

Here's hoping that gets resolved, because I really like this one and love the other unique gameplay elements.

lostatlimbo wrote:The 9th draft is a big improvement and I like where this one is headed...

...But I don't like that you can't attack the same color - ESPECIALLY - since that is the objective of the game. If you cannot attack between the same color, you basically have to own half the board worth of 'blank' spaces in order to capture all of the 'filled' spaces.

AND - since the blank spaces can only attack vertically and horizontally (why not diagonally?), that makes the object of the game nearly impossible and basically becomes a "blackout" board. Hold 32 territories or BUST.

I understand the idea in staying true to Chess - but I think those two elements ruin the gameplay.

Here's hoping that gets resolved, because I really like this one and love the other unique gameplay elements.

I think he just means that if your units are on a white piece from that space you can't attack another white piece but from other spaces you can

Could you make a game play difference between the colors. The map looks great! I would move the text at the bottom to another place and reword it. Looks very nice graphic wise!

Time for draft 10!



Changes:
-Got rid of color names
-Moved the signature and dated it
-Put letters and numbers on both sides of the board
-Changed the pawn diagram a bit
-Put "Empty Square" instructions
-Made a separate box for other instructions

Comment as always.

great idea. I hope this works out

Let's get you into the Main Foundry...

Woohooo!!!
I've been following this map for a while now. Only thing I'd suggest is bumping up the rook and queen bonuses so there's a difference in the bonus for bishop and rook, just for consistency's sake.

(If you wanted to get extra fancy you could give the knight a lower bonus than the bishop because the bishops are far more useful in this position, but that's another story.....)

n00blet wrote:Woohooo!!!
I've been following this map for a while now. Only thing I'd suggest is bumping up the rook and queen bonuses so there's a difference in the bonus for bishop and rook, just for consistency's sake.

(If you wanted to get extra fancy you could give the knight a lower bonus than the bishop because the bishops are far more useful in this position, but that's another story.....)

in real chess, rooks and bishops are worth the same amount of points

Hi blue,

Can you please use the [bigimg] tags for iamges rather than [img] tags? Right now your iamge is being overlapped by your avater and medals with is stopping me seeing the full iamge.

Cheers,
gimil

LED ZEPPELINER wrote:

n00blet wrote:Woohooo!!!
I've been following this map for a while now. Only thing I'd suggest is bumping up the rook and queen bonuses so there's a difference in the bonus for bishop and rook, just for consistency's sake.

(If you wanted to get extra fancy you could give the knight a lower bonus than the bishop because the bishops are far more useful in this position, but that's another story.....)

in real chess, rooks and bishops are worth the same amount of points

no not at all....

Queen ----- 9
Rook ------ 5
Bishop ----- 3
Knight ----- 3
Pawn ------ 1

He was probably thinking of a knight.

.44

very ironic, i was just in the dungeons map thinking that it is almost as close to a chess game as CC has, and how awesome a chess board would be. of course, this could be because i just started on a chess site too...but in the end, nice to see this in the works.

Fire Mario wrote:I would adjust the bonuses a bit to maybe:
Pawn=1
Bishop/Knight=2
Rook=3
King/Queen=5

In real Chess, point values for each of the pieces for each of the pieces are as follows:
Pawn=1
Bishop=3
Knight=3
Rook=5
Queen=9
King=Priceless

I'd recommend changing the bonuses to reflect this.

I posted about this issue earlier.

the.killing.44 wrote:Queen ----- 9
Rook ------ 5
Bishop ----- 3
Knight ----- 3
Pawn ------ 1

He was probably thinking of a knight.

.44

yes i was thinking knight srry

Sorry guys, but in my opinion having more than 3 bonus armies for a single territory is too much. I've seen Conquer Man games won by camping on the cupcake.

Anyway, I made a Large draft.

[bigimg]http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/349/chesslargecopy.png[/bigimg]

Enjoy.

Objectives wise -

Black = 19 total bonus
White = 19 total bonus

Both have a 3 hop kill.

White gets to the king from the Queen - Black from the bishop - so there is a minor +1 bonus difference from the White queen...

Sounds pretty even to me.

C.

I went crazy and started counting more unusual attack routes, inspired by the 3 hop comment.

I put a * for each opposing force piece that can attack the square.

White
3 hop W Queen to H7*, H8*, G8 B King
3 hop W Queen to G6**, G7 B Pawn, G8 B King
3 hop W Bishop to F7 B Pawn, F8**, G8 B King
5 hop W Knight or W bishop to E6, E7*, E8*, F8**, G8 B King
5 hop W Knight to F5*, F6**, F7 B Pawn, F8**, G8 B King
5 hop G2 W Pawn to G4, G5*, G6*, G7 B Pawn, G8 B King
6 hop A5 W Rook to E5 B Bishop, E6, E7*, E8*, F8**, G8 B King
6 hop H3 W Pawn to H4, H5 B Bishop, H6 B Pawn, H7*, H8*, G8 B King
6 Hop F2 W Pawn to F4*, F5*, F6**, F7 B Pawn, F8**, G8 B King

Black
2 hop B Queen to G2 W Pawn, G1 W King
3 hop E5 B Bishop to H2*, H1*, G1 W King
3 hop E5 B Bishop to G3*, G2 W Pawn, G1 W King
4 hop H5 B Bishop or B Queen to F3**, F2 W Pawn, G2 W Pawn, G1 W King
4 hop H5 B Bishop or B Queen to F3**, F2 W Pawn, F1***, G1 W King
4 hop H5 B Bishop to E2*, F2 W Pawn, F1***, G1 W King
4 hop H5 B Bishop to E2*, F2 W Pawn, G2 W Pawn, G1 W King
4 hop H5 B Bishop to E2*, E1*, F1***, G1 W King
4 hop H5 B Bishop to D1**, E1*, F1***, G1 W King
5 hop G7 B Pawn to G5, G4*, G3*, G2 W Pawn, G1 W King

It's hardly an exhaustive list, but it's good enough for a rough comparison.

It seems black has more opportunities for shorter attacks, but not overwhelmingly as most paths need to bust the Pawns or deal with the Queen. Both are strongly defended on the left but weak on the right, white slightly stronger defensively thanks to the Queens proximity to the King. The white Rook attacking the left black Bishop also negates blacks offensive power a little, while Blacks two rook defenders make up for its lack of Queen defence on the left of the King. It seems fairly well balanced as both positions seem to have a fair share of advantages and weaknesses.

nazlfrag wrote:I went crazy and started counting more unusual attack routes, inspired by the 3 hop comment.

I put a * for each opposing force piece that can attack the square.

White
3 hop W Queen to H7*, H8*, G8 B King
3 hop W Queen to G6**, G7 B Pawn, G8 B King
3 hop W Bishop to F7 B Pawn, F8**, G8 B King
5 hop W Knight or W bishop to E6, E7*, E8*, F8**, G8 B King
5 hop W Knight to F5*, F6**, F7 B Pawn, F8**, G8 B King
5 hop G2 W Pawn to G4, G5*, G6*, G7 B Pawn, G8 B King
6 hop A5 W Rook to E5 B Bishop, E6, E7*, E8*, F8**, G8 B King (Bishop can't attack adjacent squares.)
6 hop H3 W Pawn to H4, H5 B Bishop, H6 B Pawn, H7*, H8*, G8 B King
6 Hop F2 W Pawn to F4*, F5*, F6**, F7 B Pawn, F8**, G8 B King

Black
2 hop B Queen to G2 W Pawn, G1 W King
3 hop E5 B Bishop to H2*, H1*, G1 W King
3 hop E5 B Bishop to G3*, G2 W Pawn, G1 W King
4 hop H5 B Bishop or B Queen to F3**, F2 W Pawn, G2 W Pawn, G1 W King
4 hop H5 B Bishop or B Queen to F3**, F2 W Pawn, F1***, G1 W King
4 hop H5 B Bishop to E2*, F2 W Pawn, F1***, G1 W King
4 hop H5 B Bishop to E2*, F2 W Pawn, G2 W Pawn, G1 W King
4 hop H5 B Bishop to E2*, E1*, F1***, G1 W King
4 hop H5 B Bishop to D1**, E1*, F1***, G1 W King (Pretty much same as the last one.)
5 hop G7 B Pawn to G5, G4*, G3*, G2 W Pawn, G1 W King

It's hardly an exhaustive list, but it's good enough for a rough comparison.

It seems black has more opportunities for shorter attacks, but not overwhelmingly as most paths need to bust the Pawns or deal with the Queen. Both are strongly defended on the left but weak on the right, white slightly stronger defensively thanks to the Queens proximity to the King. The white Rook attacking the left black Bishop also negates blacks offensive power a little, while Blacks two rook defenders make up for its lack of Queen defence on the left of the King. It seems fairly well balanced as both positions seem to have a fair share of advantages and weaknesses.

Wow, nice list.

You made a mistake, though. Many of your paths (the ones in bold) allow the pawns guarding the king to attack backwards, which doesn't happen in real chess. The reason the pawns are there is to make it harder to reach the king, because if you land on a pawn, the only spaces you can attack to are the two in front of it (if it is on the home row).

Here is the balance: both sides have a piece that can cut through the gap in the pawns and get to the king in 3 moves (WQ D3, BB E5), a second route around the pawns from the left side, and a piece that can be used against them to access their king faster (WQ D3, BR C8). Black has more board coverage with the queen, rook, and two bishops, but White has the strongest piece on the board (the White Queen) which has access to both kings and cannot be attacked. Black needs to be aggressive and White needs to be defensive. IMO that is pretty balanced, but I might look into it more later.

Fire Mario wrote:King=Priceless

have u decided what bonus to give to the king? in fact, will there be an objective, such as hold both kings to win (obviously, they'll have to have a reasonably high number of neutrals, though not so high that they'll always be ignored)? it seems a bit off that the king's bonus at the moment is rather small - not in keeping with the object of chess.

ian.

If I remember my chess correctly, I think a pawn can only move 2 spaces when he is on his starting row.

It also seems like the black queen is much stronger than the white one.

Gilligan wrote:If I remember my chess correctly, I think a pawn can only move 2 spaces when he is on his starting row.

Yes - but the way the board is - the ones that are 1 advanced - can't actually move 2 anyway!!

Clever planning too - also the pawns can't attack anyone...

C.

iancanton wrote:

Fire Mario wrote:King=Priceless

have u decided what bonus to give to the king? in fact, will there be an objective, such as hold both kings to win (obviously, they'll have to have a reasonably high number of neutrals, though not so high that they'll always be ignored)? it seems a bit off that the king's bonus at the moment is rather small - not in keeping with the object of chess.

ian.

The kings are objectives...

C.

i see it now!

ian.