Conquer Club

while i agree that edoc and you are right about the rolefishing (i stated that too quite often). my intend was to get more positive activity rather than going in circles all the time. because going in circles is not only annoying, it's also useless and anti-town. so in that way i made progression, and i don't think that's scummy, if you think i look scummy, you're clearly overreacting edoc.

zimmah wrote:while i agree that edoc and you are right about the rolefishing (i stated that too quite often). my intend was to get more positive activity rather than going in circles all the time. because going in circles is not only annoying, it's also useless and anti-town. so in that way i made progression, and i don't think that's scummy, if you think i look scummy, you're clearly overreacting edoc.

Your intent was positive activity, but your action was exposing all town power roles. The thing is, you have done more of the running in circles than anyone else. Personally I am of the opinion that it has been good debate so far, so "progress" was not needed, nor would have the attempted mass claim been even remotely beneficial to the town, and you know this. Your defense is like this.

I did something scummy.
People talked about it a lot.
This means I am not scummy.

While it looks like poetry a bit, it's really more or less crap. Just because things turned out alright doesn't been that action had anything to do with the towns interest. So no, I am not clearly overreacting, I am calling bullshit on your defense.

Hey Strike, not that it really matters to me, but if you feel so strongly about not showing our hands, why are you ok with roleplaying?

/ wrote:Hey Strike, not that it really matters to me, but if you feel so strongly about not showing our hands, why are you ok with roleplaying?

Joke phase. I wasn't playing my role, I was acting out a slightly insane war hero who was detailing common plot elements from hero, survival against tremendous odds movies in an over the top manner. I simply thought it would now a good counter to your underwhelmed attitude.

zimmah wrote:while i agree that edoc and you are right about the rolefishing (i stated that too quite often). my intend was to get more positive activity rather than going in circles all the time. because going in circles is not only annoying, it's also useless and anti-town. so in that way i made progression, and i don't think that's scummy, if you think i look scummy, you're clearly overreacting edoc.

As well and good as you try to make that sound, in the end you decided to follow someone who you've admitted was rolefishing into a mass claim. you've acted around it, starting off hesitant, going all aboard and now back tracking to say.you were only following begrudgingly. you say conversation would go in circles. I say we have a fairly progressive case against you and vodean.

edocsil wrote:

zimmah wrote:while i agree that edoc and you are right about the rolefishing (i stated that too quite often). my intend was to get more positive activity rather than going in circles all the time. because going in circles is not only annoying, it's also useless and anti-town. so in that way i made progression, and i don't think that's scummy, if you think i look scummy, you're clearly overreacting edoc.

Your intent was positive activity, but your action was exposing all town power roles. The thing is, you have done more of the running in circles than anyone else. Personally I am of the opinion that it has been good debate so far, so "progress" was not needed, nor would have the attempted mass claim been even remotely beneficial to the town, and you know this. Your defense is like this.

I did something scummy.
People talked about it a lot.
This means I am not scummy.

While it looks like poetry a bit, it's really more or less crap. Just because things turned out alright doesn't been that action had anything to do with the towns interest. So no, I am not clearly overreacting, I am calling bullshit on your defense.

you are looking at the method, i'm looking at the result, that's the difference.

if not for me, who knows maybe we would still be talking about massclaim or not.

zimmah wrote:

edocsil wrote:

zimmah wrote:while i agree that edoc and you are right about the rolefishing (i stated that too quite often). my intend was to get more positive activity rather than going in circles all the time. because going in circles is not only annoying, it's also useless and anti-town. so in that way i made progression, and i don't think that's scummy, if you think i look scummy, you're clearly overreacting edoc.

Your intent was positive activity, but your action was exposing all town power roles. The thing is, you have done more of the running in circles than anyone else. Personally I am of the opinion that it has been good debate so far, so "progress" was not needed, nor would have the attempted mass claim been even remotely beneficial to the town, and you know this. Your defense is like this.

I did something scummy.
People talked about it a lot.
This means I am not scummy.

While it looks like poetry a bit, it's really more or less crap. Just because things turned out alright doesn't been that action had anything to do with the towns interest. So no, I am not clearly overreacting, I am calling bullshit on your defense.

you are looking at the method, i'm looking at the result, that's the difference.

if not for me, who knows maybe we would still be talking about massclaim or not.

But we still are talking about the massclaim.

Here's the problem zimmah, you're saying that vodean's idea was a bad idea. But that's after you made several posts that support his idea. So you're trying to have it both ways where you'll show support for his idea if everyone else agrees with it, thus painting you "town". Or, if support dies, you claim that you were against the idea anyways, painting you "town" again. Trying to play it safe instead of taking a strong stand is a classic mafia tactic to fly under the radar.

[b]unvote vote zimmah[/b]

safariguy5 wrote:

zimmah wrote:

edocsil wrote:

zimmah wrote:while i agree that edoc and you are right about the rolefishing (i stated that too quite often). my intend was to get more positive activity rather than going in circles all the time. because going in circles is not only annoying, it's also useless and anti-town. so in that way i made progression, and i don't think that's scummy, if you think i look scummy, you're clearly overreacting edoc.

Your intent was positive activity, but your action was exposing all town power roles. The thing is, you have done more of the running in circles than anyone else. Personally I am of the opinion that it has been good debate so far, so "progress" was not needed, nor would have the attempted mass claim been even remotely beneficial to the town, and you know this. Your defense is like this.

I did something scummy.
People talked about it a lot.
This means I am not scummy.

While it looks like poetry a bit, it's really more or less crap. Just because things turned out alright doesn't been that action had anything to do with the towns interest. So no, I am not clearly overreacting, I am calling bullshit on your defense.

you are looking at the method, i'm looking at the result, that's the difference.

if not for me, who knows maybe we would still be talking about massclaim or not.

But we still are talking about the massclaim.

Here's the problem zimmah, you're saying that vodean's idea was a bad idea. But that's after you made several posts that support his idea. So you're trying to have it both ways where you'll show support for his idea if everyone else agrees with it, thus painting you "town". Or, if support dies, you claim that you were against the idea anyways, painting you "town" again. Trying to play it safe instead of taking a strong stand is a classic mafia tactic to fly under the radar.

[b]unvote vote zimmah[/b]

it's not like that, besides, like many others, i have voiced my opinion about it, but unlike many, i was not afraid to take action. and now you're chasing the wrong guy.

So taking action is thinking that a mass claim is a bad idea but going along with it anyways? Your logic is beyond twisted at this point. I'm not entirely certain I know what the vote count is right now so I won't yet switch my vote but Zimmah seems to falling farther and farther.

Sheep

1 person picks me as a target because I follow vodean's lead to prevent the game from stalling and everyone joins him.

Quite sad tbh.

I am not the bad guy, but like usual, everyone seems to think I am, because I am active. Note to self, in all next mafia's I should probably just ignore the game and try to keep posting to a minimum, cuz not posting is often less dangerous.

Let's give scum a free win once again.

zimmah wrote:Sheep

1 person picks me as a target because I follow vodean's lead to prevent the game from stalling and everyone joins him.

Quite sad tbh.

I am not the bad guy, but like usual, everyone seems to think I am, because I am active. Note to self, in all next mafia's I should probably just ignore the game and try to keep posting to a minimum, cuz not posting is often less dangerous.

Let's give scum a free win once again.

No we're picking on you because your logic makes no sense.

I dislike Vodean's plan should not equal I'll follow his plan. You act like there's no alternative. The alternative is you can go against vodean for coming up with a bad plan. And now you're trying to intimidate us with claims like we're letting mafia win.

You're really making a mistake to think that making a mistake is scumslip. I may have been wrong, but that doesn't make me scum. Also why would we chase vodean, he has done nothing scummy either, and besides, he allready claimed somewhat.

It's pretty frustrating that everything I say is taken out of perspective and everything I do is seen as scummy, while all I do is try to progress.

Wow zimmah. First off, there are only two people on your case much less a dozen sheep. Second off, don't complain about always loosing as town. Looking at my last games as town. Beach, Skyrim, Pokemon, Matrix. What's the pattern here? Oh that's right. I was town in 3 and third party in the other. Whats the other part of the pattern? I won them all.

Lets go further back. Play the mod. Mod won, I died early, balance in question. Two Sides, won as town, lost as scum. Hectic E. Town, won. I lost Dazza's as town, but died day 1. General's Pro, won as town.

Those are all the games I was town in going back to January. With these flavor games it is easy to win as town so long as you aren't a bunch of retards.

Yes, we are picking on you because you made a mistake. That is how you win, you look for errors, mistakes, and logical fallacies. Progress means nothing if you are running headlong into disaster, so do not try to to hide behind the name of progress any longer, it doesn't make you look like town.

maybe not, but so do errors not make me mafia. it's a fallacy too to think 'm mafia, just because i made a mistake.

i'm not as experienced as you are, so obviously i make more mistakes, no reason to start a wagon against me just for that.

Vote Count

vodean (4) - campin, DiM, jak111, strike wolf
edocsil (2) - PCM, zimmah
zimmah (3) - Lovo, edocsil, safariguy
campin (2) - /, vodean

With 11 alive, 6 to lynch. Saturday night

zimmah wrote:You're really making a mistake to think that making a mistake is scumslip. I may have been wrong, but that doesn't make me scum. Also why would we chase vodean, he has done nothing scummy either, and besides, he allready claimed somewhat.

It's pretty frustrating that everything I say is taken out of perspective and everything I do is seen as scummy, while all I do is try to progress.

It's how you win. Scumhunting and looking for scum slips are ways to find scum.

First, I found your post a bit insulting edoc. I also don't find it that easy. I tend to have a difficult time convincing people to listen to me.

secondly zimmah you have been here almost a year, you can't play the newbie card of inexperience.

3rd, we aren't pursuing you for mixing people up or forgetting details. that would be making a mistake. we're pursuing you because of a logical fallacy.

Campin_Killer wrote:

zimmah wrote:You're really making a mistake to think that making a mistake is scumslip. I may have been wrong, but that doesn't make me scum. Also why would we chase vodean, he has done nothing scummy either, and besides, he allready claimed somewhat.

It's pretty frustrating that everything I say is taken out of perspective and everything I do is seen as scummy, while all I do is try to progress.

It's how you win. Scumhunting and looking for scum slips are ways to find scum.

scumslip does not equal mistake.

strike wolf wrote:First, I found your post a bit insulting edoc. I also don't find it that easy. I tend to have a difficult time convincing people to listen to me.

secondly zimmah you have been here almost a year, you can't play the newbie card of inexperience.

3rd, we aren't pursuing you for mixing people up or forgetting details. that would be making a mistake. we're pursuing you because of a logical fallacy.

Pardon, "retarded" was likely insensitive of me. What I was trying to get at was that flavor often makes the game very easy. Look at the Beach mafia. Town won because the scenes pretty much told us who the scum were. Some good sleuthing plus flavor analysis can really give town a major advantage, unless the mod is particularly cruel with the scum's fakes.

edocsil wrote:Wow zimmah. First off, there are only two people on your case much less a dozen sheep. Second off, don't complain about always loosing as town. Looking at my last games as town. Beach, Skyrim, Pokemon, Matrix. What's the pattern here? Oh that's right. I was town in 3 and third party in the other. Whats the other part of the pattern? I won them all.

Lets go further back. Play the mod. Mod won, I died early, balance in question. Two Sides, won as town, lost as scum. Hectic E. Town, won. I lost Dazza's as town, but died day 1. General's Pro, won as town.

Those are all the games I was town in going back to January. With these flavor games it is easy to win as town so long as you aren't a bunch of retards.

Yes, we are picking on you because you made a mistake. That is how you win, you look for errors, mistakes, and logical fallacies. Progress means nothing if you are running headlong into disaster, so do not try to to hide behind the name of progress any longer, it doesn't make you look like town.

by the way, winning is only achieved by playing together, you make it sound like you singlehandedly won the game.

anyway, assuming you're town, we're on the same side. so working together would achieve more than fighting each other.

Another logical fallacy. edoc believes you scum so he's not gonna want to work with you so willingly.

unvote

I need not make any enemies, but also must not be an obstacle to logical progression, whatever direction that may go, it may be callous, but one of these two cases needs to close before the mind day (Inception time? real time? who cares.) moves forward, so vodean, go ahead and make a role claim so I don't need to put you at minus one danger.

Or Zimmah's case is getting strong too, plus he put forward a supposedly random list while we were talking about the flaws of random lists, if I were town I'd see how that's kind of scummy, may as well let the two stand on even ground since the outcome shouldn't affect the whole of the situation.
vote zim

strike wolf wrote:Another logical fallacy. edoc believes you scum so he's not gonna want to work with you so willingly.

don't care. i'm town, nothing else matters.

zimmah wrote:

strike wolf wrote:Another logical fallacy. edoc believes you scum so he's not gonna want to work with you so willingly.

don't care. i'm town, nothing else matters.

Exactly the kind of attitude that becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. "People are all against me because I'm active". There's a difference between being active and being scummy. I ask again, if every time someone made a "mistake" or "scumslip" in your words, do we let them off the hook because they say they're town? My question is, how do we know who to pressure otherwise?

Also, if you have a case against someone, by all means, use it. Because right now, you're the best case we have right now. And it's not something like "let's lynch the submariner" either.