Conquer Club

jigger1986 wrote:Lub,

I can assure you that the EMP vs NEM war of June 2011 is in there, however because those two clans also had a war back in December 2009, the games,win/loss and % are likely being lumped into one large calculation. I am not the expert, FD is, but I thought I could offer a possible explanation. I do know however that 100% that war IS being calculated.

It is there, just the basis points for each clans rating haven't been updated so you can't see how it counts.

It's the reason why they jumped from 1255 in 6th to 1279 in 4th and why we went from 1124 to 1100...

Dako wrote:Can you post top-5 ratings achieved during any moment? So it looks like this:

Best score:
#1 THOTA - 1375 - 2010 Oct
#2 TOFU - 1372 - 2011 Jun
#3 KORT - 1339 - 2011 Jun
...

Would be nice to see clan records there and it is not easy to calculate them.

I can do that but I'm not exactly sure what it would represent. What do you see it as representing?

I think number of clans at time X vs time Y could be a factor that might distort whatever this ranking is supposed to represent. It definitely could not be used to say Clan A can beat Clan B now - and I'm not sure it would be a reliable indicator that Clan A in their heyday could beat Clan B in their heyday ("heyday" meaning the time that the clan performed its best) due to this possible distortion caused by total number of clans at any given time.

How does total number of clans affect the highest rating achievable at that time? If there are only two clans, and the top clan beats the other clan at 75% win margin, the two clans would come to an equilibrium of 1200 and 800. This would happen no matter how good the two clans are, as long as the better clan always wins at 75% win rate. Who knows, maybe once there are 5 clans, this is not so much of an issue, but someone would need to examine this before drawing any conclusions.

And there is another factor - how good were the clans at time X compared to time Y? If the clans were weaker at time Y than they were at time X, then a higher rating over them might not be as meaningful as a slightly lower rating at time X.

Anyway, I will consider providing it just for fun, at least. But if it is proven to be meaningless due to the number of clans at time X factor, then I probably don't want to provide it.

Leehar wrote:

jigger1986 wrote:Lub,

I can assure you that the EMP vs NEM war of June 2011 is in there, however because those two clans also had a war back in December 2009, the games,win/loss and % are likely being lumped into one large calculation. I am not the expert, FD is, but I thought I could offer a possible explanation. I do know however that 100% that war IS being calculated.

It is there, just the basis points for each clans rating haven't been updated so you can't see how it counts.

It's the reason why they jumped from 1255 in 6th to 1279 in 4th and why we went from 1124 to 1100...

If a clan plays another clan several times, each war is considered a separate event.
I will update the ratings basis shortly so you will see the impact of each war on your ratings.

Leehar wrote:And with regards to the win/tie sentiments, could there ever be a situation where a loss could give you a higher rating then your wins? If so, then I think that could also be worth reporting...
(I'm actually surprised our 'loss' to thota didn't net us more points, since I think that was one of our best performances compared to a win over DB...)

It is possible for a loss to give a clan a higher rating than a win.

The settings of Min delta per win/loss and Max delta per win/loss affect this. I have chosen 200 to be the minimum points awarded on top of an opponent's rating to a clan that beats their opponent. I chose 600 for maximum. So the actual value added/subtracted is between 200 and 600 and is linearly correlated to margin of victory.

So even if that NEM barely lost to THOTA, NEM's basis point for the match is THOTA's rating at that time minus 200.

If I used a min value of 0, then NEM would get a basis point near equal to THOTA's rating as THOTA's margin of victory was small.

But I found that using the value of 0 resulted in lower accuracy than using the values I am using.

It will not provide anything - just the numbers for the hall of fame, aka another blitz top list.

Dako wrote:It will not provide anything - just the numbers for the hall of fame, aka another blitz top list.

Ok I'll try to work it into the next update.
Btw, thanks for your advice. I implemented the != "LOSS" in my code.

As much as I hate to admit it, these rankings are more representative of where Nemesis is right now. We need to get our act together and be better than we have been.

Updated on July 26 to provide DJ Teflon input for ACC. Expect next update end of August.

excellent job. btw, it may easy happen that #1 and #2 on new list go head to head at the end of august

josko.ri wrote:excellent job. btw, it may easy happen that #1 and #2 on new list go head to head at the end of august

Err, I don't think so, tofu is out I think. If not, they are pretty close.

Perhaps he meant that tofu would drop far enough that the new 1 and 2 would still be competing? (ie kort and empire instead of tofu and kort )

Leehar wrote:Perhaps he meant that tofu would drop far enough that the new 1 and 2 would still be competing? (ie kort and empire instead of tofu and kort )

Yes I think if we maintain our lead that we will overtake tofu in the rankings. Still...the third set is only just beginning. I have seen crazier things

Yes, it may easy happen that TOFU fall to #3 after quarters, if Empire maintains their huge lead.

btw one question... I remember that KORT was #1 clan at one point (I think it was 4 points more than TOFU at that time). but, by looking at the history graphs in post 1, I see KORT was never on he top. so, are graphs non accurate or something else is reason for that?

josko.ri wrote:Yes, it may easy happen that TOFU fall to #3 after quarters, if Empire maintains their huge lead.

btw one question... I remember that KORT was #1 clan at one point (I think it was 4 points more than TOFU at that time). but, by looking at the history graphs in post 1, I see KORT was never on he top. so, are graphs non accurate or something else is reason for that?

There was an error somewhere or other resulting in tofu being higher than previous.
Otherwise it could just be that the change in calc for newer clans results in this change

josko.ri wrote:Yes, it may easy happen that TOFU fall to #3 after quarters, if Empire maintains their huge lead.

btw one question... I remember that KORT was #1 clan at one point (I think it was 4 points more than TOFU at that time). but, by looking at the history graphs in post 1, I see KORT was never on he top. so, are graphs non accurate or something else is reason for that?

Here is the quote from page 4.

FarangDemon wrote:I just now realized we accidentally double-counted the results from CL3 quarterfinals IA vs MYTH and KoRT vs LOW in our clan war results data file.
My apologies to TOFU, who now come out at #1 on the day I drew up that last ranking (June 17th), beating KoRT by a mere 3 points, at 1368 to 1365.
That was the only change in ranks caused by the correction.

Dako wrote:

josko.ri wrote:Yes, it may easy happen that TOFU fall to #3 after quarters, if Empire maintains their huge lead.

btw one question... I remember that KORT was #1 clan at one point (I think it was 4 points more than TOFU at that time). but, by looking at the history graphs in post 1, I see KORT was never on he top. so, are graphs non accurate or something else is reason for that?

Here is the quote from page 4.

FarangDemon wrote:I just now realized we accidentally double-counted the results from CL3 quarterfinals IA vs MYTH and KoRT vs LOW in our clan war results data file.
My apologies to TOFU, who now come out at #1 on the day I drew up that last ranking (June 17th), beating KoRT by a mere 3 points, at 1368 to 1365.
That was the only change in ranks caused by the correction.

Thanks, Dako, I appreciate your attentiveness.

Is there a way you can post the history of how these change.
Also when you update the ladder. A movement column ie +3 or -1 or even etc

Has TLW clan war against MM also been included in this update?

Slick

slickstick wrote:Has TLW clan war against MM also been included in this update?

Slick

No it was not. The update was done on July 26, the TLW v MM war was noted and closed by the clan mods on July 27th.
The results from that war will be added into the August update.

Interesting results

lord voldemort wrote:Is there a way you can post the history of how these change.
Also when you update the ladder. A movement column ie +3 or -1 or even etc

Yeah I realize the way I'm doing it does not show movement from month to month. I could modify the script to allow input of a compare to date. I'll try to implement it for Aug 31.

Very good suggestion and thanks for reminding me about it.

This looks interesting. When will the next update be?

Georgerx7di wrote:This looks interesting. When will the next update be?

FD updates the rankings on (or around) the 1st of the month.

I like all of the factors that are taken into account with this algorithm, looks like an accurate power ranking system for cc. Appreciate it guys, keep up the good work.

Thought we already have a power ranking

Leehar wrote:Thought we already have a power ranking

One uses numbers.. other uses people's opinions of clans.

Any chance we can get a user script that is compiled from this updated list of clans that could show clan names (clan rank too? maybe) next to ppl's names? Right now, just using CC Clan Watch from Userscripts, and it seems to be outdated since there are a lot of new clans since its revision. Maybe there is a script already that I haven't found, so if one already exists, please offer a link for me, please.

Thanks for the work. Seems like the weighting is really the key to figure out something agreeable by all to represent a snapshot overview of where clans are at. I think the annual clan tournament could officially be the "weighted figure" that is used to determine who has bragging rights for a year. But this works as a record keeper. Unless someone set up a "season schedule" that forced everyone to play each other throughout the year, then we could use a simple season record, otherwise this is great.

Cheers