Conquer Club

Wasn't Obama denying in the past that this bills goal was to lead to universal health care? Now he is saying that universal health care is the plan. Do I have that right?

Phatscotty wrote:Wasn't Obama denying in the past that this bills goal was to lead to universal health care? Now he is saying that universal health care is the plan. Do I have that right?

I'm not sure what you mean, so... I'm going with a maybe.

Symmetry wrote:

Phatscotty wrote:Wasn't Obama denying in the past that this bills goal was to lead to universal health care? Now he is saying that universal health care is the plan. Do I have that right?

I'm not sure what you mean, so... I'm going with a maybe.

Republicans, in the past, have accused the health care plan of being the in to an eventual universal system. I recall Obama denying that. I also recall Obama denying he was a socialist. Universal health care is a socialist program. He said it wouldnt lead to universal health care he denied we was for a single payer system, now hes proudly proclaiming universal health care will be here soon. What does that say about Obama and socialism>

they come in a trojan horse. that is how all malicious invasions come.

Mr_Adams wrote:they come in a trojan horse. that is how all malicious invasions come.

which is why this video is so fitting for how this goes. How this always goes....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLgd0AmbO2c

Anytime Castro gives praise to something the US does, it's quite worrisome for what it actually means for the freedom of the citizens. Liberals know exactly what this law means for government control, and they love that expansion of power.

Night Strike wrote:Anytime Castro gives praise to something the US does, it's quite worrisome for what it actually means for the freedom of the citizens. Liberals know exactly what this law means for government control, and they love that expansion of power.

This is essentially Godwins Law but with Castro. Just because someone you see as evil agrees with a certain policy does not mean it is inherently bad. Hitler promoted animal rights but it does not mean we should now turn into barbarians.

Phatscotty wrote:Wasn't Obama denying in the past that this bills goal was to lead to universal health care? Now he is saying that universal health care is the plan. Do I have that right?

Universal health care just means a system in which everybody can get health care. If that kind of system existed (in hypothetical-land) completely without government interference, then so be it. You conflate universal and single-payer. I'm sure he never said that universal wasn't the goal. That's the goal. It's a non-partisan goal. Republicans would like universal, too (more money for insurance companies! yippee!) and, it should be mentioned, wanted it when they basically wrote this same bill 15 years ago (google "John Chafee health care") they just don't want single-payer. Which, it should be added, isn't friggin happening. So, there's that.

Also, this law isn't even a universal health care law (man, it feels good to write "law") There's a mandate for everybody to buy insurance, and if you don't, you pay a fine that actually has no enforcement mechanism. It's weird, but it's how the law is written.

spurgistan wrote:

Phatscotty wrote:Wasn't Obama denying in the past that this bills goal was to lead to universal health care? Now he is saying that universal health care is the plan. Do I have that right?

Universal health care just means a system in which everybody can get health care. If that kind of system existed (in hypothetical-land) completely without government interference, then so be it. You conflate universal and single-payer. I'm sure he never said that universal wasn't the goal. That's the goal. It's a non-partisan goal. Republicans would like universal, too (more money for insurance companies! yippee!) and, it should be mentioned, wanted it when they basically wrote this same bill 15 years ago (google "John Chafee health care") they just don't want single-payer. Which, it should be added, isn't friggin happening. So, there's that.

Also, this law isn't even a universal health care law (man, it feels good to write "law") There's a mandate for everybody to buy insurance, and if you don't, you pay a fine that actually has no enforcement mechanism. It's weird, but it's how the law is written.

Obama is an advcate for single payer. He has spoken about how these policies will lead us to a single payer system. He is trying to bankrupt the insurance companies, or at least make them stop wanting to sell policies.

I think there are penalties, including jail time and fines.

jbrettlip wrote:

spurgistan wrote:

Phatscotty wrote:Wasn't Obama denying in the past that this bills goal was to lead to universal health care? Now he is saying that universal health care is the plan. Do I have that right?

Universal health care just means a system in which everybody can get health care. If that kind of system existed (in hypothetical-land) completely without government interference, then so be it. You conflate universal and single-payer. I'm sure he never said that universal wasn't the goal. That's the goal. It's a non-partisan goal. Republicans would like universal, too (more money for insurance companies! yippee!) and, it should be mentioned, wanted it when they basically wrote this same bill 15 years ago (google "John Chafee health care") they just don't want single-payer. Which, it should be added, isn't friggin happening. So, there's that.

Also, this law isn't even a universal health care law (man, it feels good to write "law") There's a mandate for everybody to buy insurance, and if you don't, you pay a fine that actually has no enforcement mechanism. It's weird, but it's how the law is written.

Obama is an advcate for single payer. He has spoken about how these policies will lead us to a single payer system. He is trying to bankrupt the insurance companies, or at least make them stop wanting to sell policies.

I think there are penalties, including jail time and fines.

This bill makes insurance companies sell more policies by bringing 32 million more people into the market, with over 15 million of those into the private market. Also the government already has a huge stake in the health insurance market through medicare and medicaid from past policies.

jbrettlip wrote:Obama is an advcate for single payer. He has spoken about how these policies will lead us to a single payer system. He is trying to bankrupt the insurance companies, or at least make them stop wanting to sell policies.

I think there are penalties, including jail time and fines.

The major insurance companies LIKE this law.

PLAYER57832 wrote:

jbrettlip wrote:Obama is an advcate for single payer. He has spoken about how these policies will lead us to a single payer system. He is trying to bankrupt the insurance companies, or at least make them stop wanting to sell policies.

I think there are penalties, including jail time and fines.

The major insurance companies LIKE this law.

Player, I think I know why the insurance companies like this law. Why do you think they like this law?

thegreekdog wrote:

PLAYER57832 wrote:

jbrettlip wrote:Obama is an advcate for single payer. He has spoken about how these policies will lead us to a single payer system. He is trying to bankrupt the insurance companies, or at least make them stop wanting to sell policies.

I think there are penalties, including jail time and fines.

The major insurance companies LIKE this law.

Player, I think I know why the insurance companies like this law. Why do you think they like this law?

What they have said publically is that they will get a lot more business. I also heard mention of more uniformity. One set of minimum standards instead of 50.

PLAYER57832 wrote:

thegreekdog wrote:

PLAYER57832 wrote:

jbrettlip wrote:Obama is an advcate for single payer. He has spoken about how these policies will lead us to a single payer system. He is trying to bankrupt the insurance companies, or at least make them stop wanting to sell policies.

I think there are penalties, including jail time and fines.

The major insurance companies LIKE this law.

Player, I think I know why the insurance companies like this law. Why do you think they like this law?

What they have said publically is that they will get a lot more business. I also heard mention of more uniformity. One set of minimum standards instead of 50.

Why will they get a lot more business? I thought they made too much money already.

thegreekdog wrote:

PLAYER57832 wrote:

thegreekdog wrote:

PLAYER57832 wrote:

jbrettlip wrote:Obama is an advcate for single payer. He has spoken about how these policies will lead us to a single payer system. He is trying to bankrupt the insurance companies, or at least make them stop wanting to sell policies.

I think there are penalties, including jail time and fines.

The major insurance companies LIKE this law.

Player, I think I know why the insurance companies like this law. Why do you think they like this law?

What they have said publically is that they will get a lot more business. I also heard mention of more uniformity. One set of minimum standards instead of 50.

Why will they get a lot more business? I thought they made too much money already.

I think they do, but they will be getting more business from this bill... anyway, I am not debating the point, I am simply repeating what the insurance executives themselves are on record as saying.

So, the evil insurance companies will be making more money because of this bill. But don't they have to cover people with pre-existing conditions? Won't that drive down their incomes? Or, maybe, just maybe, they'll raise rates?

Like how the tax on medical products will be passed to consumers.

Like how the employers that don't insure their employees will pass the penalties on to consumers.

Like how a tax on pharmaceuticals will be passed to consumers.

So, I guess my point is... are the Democrats really looking out for the average person here? Or are they looking out for insurance companies?

thegreekdog wrote:So, the evil insurance companies will be making more money because of this bill. But don't they have to cover people with pre-existing conditions? Won't that drive down their incomes? Or, maybe, just maybe, they'll raise rates?

Like how the tax on medical products will be passed to consumers.

Like how the employers that don't insure their employees will pass the penalties on to consumers.

Like how a tax on pharmaceuticals will be passed to consumers.

So, I guess my point is... are the Democrats really looking out for the average person here? Or are they looking out for insurance companies?

Point #2 about the employers passing on the penalty is what they do right now. The counter is that all of our medical bills will go down.

As for the insurance companies passing on rates and the rest, I agree that this bill is far from perfect. However, the solution -- having government base-line insurance, was rejected soundly.

thegreekdog wrote:So, the evil insurance companies will be making more money because of this bill. But don't they have to cover people with pre-existing conditions? Won't that drive down their incomes? Or, maybe, just maybe, they'll raise rates?

Like how the tax on medical products will be passed to consumers.

Like how the employers that don't insure their employees will pass the penalties on to consumers.

Like how a tax on pharmaceuticals will be passed to consumers.

So, I guess my point is... are the Democrats really looking out for the average person here? Or are they looking out for insurance companies?

they are looking to try to get as much cash from the pig as possible, because they know it is all over soon. hedge, hedge, hedge

Well, I might not get re-elected anyways, so I need to think about my financial future!

I wrote this a few hours ago but lost internet connection. Oh well.

PLAYER57832 wrote:

jbrettlip wrote:Obama is an advcate for single payer. He has spoken about how these policies will lead us to a single payer system. He is trying to bankrupt the insurance companies, or at least make them stop wanting to sell policies.

I think there are penalties, including jail time and fines.

The major insurance companies LIKE this law.

Because they're going to get tons of new money from people being mandated to get coverage. It's not the Republicans that support the insurance companies, it's the liberals.

I think the following scenario is entirely plausible: the insurance companies supported this law so that they could make a bunch of money off the people forced to be on their rolls. The CEOs then write themselves large contracts and payouts because of the increase in their profits. They will then cash out of the business before the heavy regulation and ban on preexisting conditions comes into full force and the government's fist crashes down on them. The private insurance system will then be crushed by having to pay out way more than it's bringing in because of the heavy regulations. Once they crash, the government is conveniently in place to bailout the system and take it over, which is exactly what the liberals want.

Night Strike wrote:I wrote this a few hours ago but lost internet connection. Oh well.

PLAYER57832 wrote:

jbrettlip wrote:Obama is an advcate for single payer. He has spoken about how these policies will lead us to a single payer system. He is trying to bankrupt the insurance companies, or at least make them stop wanting to sell policies.

I think there are penalties, including jail time and fines.

The major insurance companies LIKE this law.

Because they're going to get tons of new money from people being mandated to get coverage. It's not the Republicans that support the insurance companies, it's the liberals.

I think the following scenario is entirely plausible: the insurance companies supported this law so that they could make a bunch of money off the people forced to be on their rolls. The CEOs then write themselves large contracts and payouts because of the increase in their profits. They will then cash out of the business before the heavy regulation and ban on preexisting conditions comes into full force and the government's fist crashes down on them. The private insurance system will then be crushed by having to pay out way more than it's bringing in because of the heavy regulations. Once they crash, the government is conveniently in place to bailout the system and take it over, which is exactly what the liberals want.

... You're wasting your breath. Better chance my dog will follow your thinking than the goose-steppers here.

...

Nobunaga wrote:

Night Strike wrote:I wrote this a few hours ago but lost internet connection. Oh well.

PLAYER57832 wrote:

jbrettlip wrote:Obama is an advcate for single payer. He has spoken about how these policies will lead us to a single payer system. He is trying to bankrupt the insurance companies, or at least make them stop wanting to sell policies.

I think there are penalties, including jail time and fines.

The major insurance companies LIKE this law.

Because they're going to get tons of new money from people being mandated to get coverage. It's not the Republicans that support the insurance companies, it's the liberals.

I think the following scenario is entirely plausible: the insurance companies supported this law so that they could make a bunch of money off the people forced to be on their rolls. The CEOs then write themselves large contracts and payouts because of the increase in their profits. They will then cash out of the business before the heavy regulation and ban on preexisting conditions comes into full force and the government's fist crashes down on them. The private insurance system will then be crushed by having to pay out way more than it's bringing in because of the heavy regulations. Once they crash, the government is conveniently in place to bailout the system and take it over, which is exactly what the liberals want.

... You're wasting your breath. Better chance my dog will follow your thinking than the goose-steppers here.

...

Ah, vague conspiracy theory backed up by suggesting critics of said theory are Nazis. Nothing new here.

Symmetry wrote:

Nobunaga wrote:

Night Strike wrote:I wrote this a few hours ago but lost internet connection. Oh well.

PLAYER57832 wrote:

jbrettlip wrote:Obama is an advcate for single payer. He has spoken about how these policies will lead us to a single payer system. He is trying to bankrupt the insurance companies, or at least make them stop wanting to sell policies.

I think there are penalties, including jail time and fines.

The major insurance companies LIKE this law.

Because they're going to get tons of new money from people being mandated to get coverage. It's not the Republicans that support the insurance companies, it's the liberals.

I think the following scenario is entirely plausible: the insurance companies supported this law so that they could make a bunch of money off the people forced to be on their rolls. The CEOs then write themselves large contracts and payouts because of the increase in their profits. They will then cash out of the business before the heavy regulation and ban on preexisting conditions comes into full force and the government's fist crashes down on them. The private insurance system will then be crushed by having to pay out way more than it's bringing in because of the heavy regulations. Once they crash, the government is conveniently in place to bailout the system and take it over, which is exactly what the liberals want.

... You're wasting your breath. Better chance my dog will follow your thinking than the goose-steppers here.

...

Ah, vague conspiracy theory backed up by suggesting critics of said theory are Nazis. Nothing new here.

just curious, is using the word nazi automatic DQ?

Phatscotty wrote:

Symmetry wrote:

Nobunaga wrote:
... You're wasting your breath. Better chance my dog will follow your thinking than the goose-steppers here.

...

Ah, vague conspiracy theory backed up by suggesting critics of said theory are Nazis. Nothing new here.

just curious, is using the word nazi automatic DQ?

It's an internet law, someone has to bring up a Nazi analogy sooner or later. Nobunaga wins this time as the first to accuse the other side of Nazism. Still, liberalism uber alles, or something along those lines I guess.

From the Post:

President Obama's fiscal 2011 budget will generate nearly $10 trillion in cumulative budget deficits over the next 10 years, $1.2 trillion more than the administration projected, and raise the federal debt to 90 percent of the nation's economic output by 2020, the Congressional Budget Office reported Thursday.

... Isn't it sweet?

...