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Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 11:05 am
by heavycola
Mmmm funny thing is He has restored limbs.
show me.
God only hears the prayers of His children, so you as an atheist can pray till your blue in the face. God will choose not to hear it.
Why would an atheist pray?
You're a child of god - why don't you pray to end cancer for everyone forever? The bible says you only have to ask and you will receive.
Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 11:09 am
by Bozo
well this is simple let me tell you about god
1. He is non-existant
2. he chooses not to help amputeese and other sick people because
A. He dosnt want to
B. He may just be trying to keep our numbers down, so that the whle worlds wouldnt starve and die.
Also those scripters could be refering to heaven... just a thought
Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 11:14 am
by heavycola
Mark 11:24 - "Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours."
Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 11:18 am
by jay_a2j
heavycola wrote:Mark 11:24 - "Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours."
He's speaking to his diciples.
Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 11:22 am
by jay_a2j
heavycola wrote:Mmmm funny thing is He has restored limbs.
show me.
God only hears the prayers of His children, so you as an atheist can pray till your blue in the face. God will choose not to hear it.
Why would an atheist pray?
You're a child of god - why don't you pray to end cancer for everyone forever? The bible says you only have to ask and you will receive.
Your prayers must be in God's will. Jesus prayed, "Father if it is your will let this cup pass from me." (Jesus prayed this shortly before he was arrested and crucified) It was God's will that Jesus die so that we might live.
Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 11:28 am
by heavycola
More sophistry. The bible is the word of god. ALL his teachings apply. What he says, goes - and at no point does jesus address his "dear readers", so who are you to choose which og his pronouncements apply to you and which don't?
Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 11:34 am
by jay_a2j
heavycola wrote:More sophistry. The bible is the word of god. ALL his teachings apply. What he says, goes - and at no point does jesus address his "dear readers", so who are you to choose which og his pronouncements apply to you and which don't?
Jesus lived as we should live... doing God's will. Jesus is talking to Christians as well as telling non-believers how to live. "your sins are forgiven, go and sin no more" Jesus said to an adulteress.
Almost every time Jesus healed in the Bible He said, "Your
faith has healed you". Implying these people had faith in Jesus before they were healed.
Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 11:36 am
by heavycola
Believers in god still die of cancer. Why don't your prayers heal each one of them?
Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 11:39 am
by jay_a2j
heavycola wrote:Believers in god still die of cancer. Why don't your prayers heal each one of them?
Not in God's will.
Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 12:00 pm
by vtmarik
jay_a2j wrote:heavycola wrote:Mark 11:24 - "Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours."
He's speaking to his diciples.
But aren't we supposed to follow Jesus in order to get to heaven? He does say "then come, follow me" in Luke 18:22.
Here is Jesus' promise:
- If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer. [Matthew 21:21]
- If you ask anything in my name, I will do it. [John 14:14]
- Ask, and it will be given you. [Matthew 7:7]
- Nothing will be impossible to you. [Matthew 17:20]
- Believe that you have received it, and it will be yours. [Mark 11:24]
Not in God's will.
That's odd. He's helped heal cancer patients and a little girl with a fatal case of rabies. People prayed for them and they were healed. How is a person's prayer for one type of affliction answered and another type ignored?
That kinda violates John 14:14. And since those that would be praying would be following Jesus (according to Luke 18:22), then they are his de facto disciples. Since he was speaking to his disciples, then his promise should be held.
Funny how it isn't, eh?
Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 4:01 pm
by heavycola
Not in God's will.
THIS is the nugget. The massive cop-out to end all cop-outs. This is what I was after.
Translation: any contradictions whatsoever: not god's will.
Heal one cancer patient - a miracle.
Not removing all cancer from the world - god's will.
healing all cases would be so much more loving than healing just one. It all sounds pretty fucked up to me.
MASSIVE COP OUT.
And - careful now - i think i may be done arguing here. I think 'god's will' might be the end of it.
Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 4:15 pm
by maniacmath17
Yeah, I was done arguing when Jay whipped out the "Ask God" line. Good to see he has come up with a new one.
Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:51 pm
by jay_a2j
heavycola wrote:Not in God's will.
THIS is the nugget. The massive cop-out to end all cop-outs. This is what I was after.
Translation: any contradictions whatsoever: not god's will.
Heal one cancer patient - a miracle.
Not removing all cancer from the world - god's will.
healing all cases would be so much more loving than healing just one. It all sounds pretty fucked up to me.
MASSIVE COP OUT.
And - careful now - i think i may be done arguing here. I think 'god's will' might be the end of it.
Cop Out eh?
1 John 5:14
This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything
according to His will, he hears us.
Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 12:14 am
by vtmarik
jay_a2j wrote: 1 John 5:14
This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to His will, he hears us.
Now there's a contradiction.
First Jesus says "nothing will be impossible for you" then he says "according to His will"
That doesn't sound like nothing being impossible.
Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 12:32 am
by jay_a2j
vtmarik wrote:jay_a2j wrote: 1 John 5:14
This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to His will, he hears us.
Now there's a contradiction.
First Jesus says "nothing will be impossible for you" then he says "according to His will"
That doesn't sound like nothing being impossible.
When Jesus said, "Nothing will be impossible for you" he is talking to believers. What you are failing to understand is that believers seek to do Gods will, so that anything in Gods will can be done through Him by his followers. Jesus said evrything He did we will do also. What did He do? Heal the sick. Gave sight to the blind. Raised the dead. The power of God is fully available to those that follow Him.
Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 12:55 am
by vtmarik
jay_a2j wrote:When Jesus said, "Nothing will be impossible for you" he is talking to believers. What you are failing to understand is that believers seek to do Gods will, so that anything in Gods will can be done through Him by his followers. Jesus said evrything He did we will do also. What did He do? Heal the sick. Gave sight to the blind. Raised the dead. The power of God is fully available to those that follow Him.
As long as they stick to the script.
Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 10:50 pm
by jay_a2j
NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Don't die! (gives CPR to thread)
Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 10:56 pm
by D.IsleRealBrown
jay_a2j wrote:still can't get a life
Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 11:44 pm
by jay_a2j
D.IsleRealBrown wrote:Gee, I wish I had a life. Maybe jay_a2j is on to something here.... "I am the way the truth and the life...."
Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 11:47 pm
by vtmarik
jay_a2j wrote:D.IsleRealBrown wrote:Gee, I wish I had a life. Maybe jay_a2j is on to something here.... "I am the way the truth and the life...."
Sure, but can He dance?
Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 11:57 pm
by jay_a2j
vtmarik wrote:jay_a2j wrote:D.IsleRealBrown wrote:Gee, I wish I had a life. Maybe jay_a2j is on to something here.... "I am the way the truth and the life...."
Sure, but can He dance?
The Macarena don't ya know!
Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 12:27 am
by vtmarik
jay_a2j wrote:The Macarena don't ya know!
That's not a dance, that's the Mexican hokey-pokey!
As I learned from Mr. Miyagi, "Never trust spiritual leader who can't dance."
I wanna see one of these televangelists and/or The Pope get down and get funky.
Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 12:49 am
by D.IsleRealBrown
jay wrote:Logic dictates that there is a God!
The only thing logic dictates is that you're a moron.
Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 9:55 am
by jay_a2j
D.IsleRealBrown wrote:The only thing logic dictates is that you're a moron.
Out of the mouth of a fool.
Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 10:07 am
by vtmarik
jay_a2j wrote:D.IsleRealBrown wrote:The only thing logic dictates is that you're a moron.
Out of the mouth of a fool.
The wise man acknowledges his foolishness, the fool believes himself to be wise.
I think Socrates said that, I have no idea.