Catholics, are they Christian?

[PLAYER57832]

Well, if that is the rule, see you in hell frigidus. No way am I going to buy into any religion that punishes skepticism, glorifies intolerance, and excuses murder in the name of war. That pretty much leaves me on the outs with religion, except maybe Buddhism or the Quakers.

That is not my reading of the Bible, but it is up to you to reconcile your own faith.

[mpjh]

I am a scientist. Faith is not what I must reconcile.

[Napoleon Ier]

I am a scientist.

Oh joy. Media Studies at Hull, was it?

[PLAYER57832]

I am a scientist. Faith is not what I must reconcile.

I am too.

Science only covers that which is known, mostly (not wholly) the tangible. Faith covers the rest.

However, when I said "reconcile", rejection of God or Christianity is certainly a choice. It is not up to I or anyone else to decide your faith for you.

[PLAYER57832]

I am a scientist.

Oh joy. Media Studies at Hull, was it?

So speaks the most exemplary of Christians ...

but that, too, it not for I to decide.

[jonesthecurl]

As a knowledgeable outsider, I feel I can say that Nappy sometimes appears to be a little short of the humility and compassion which I understand a good Christian needs.

[Napoleon Ier]

True. I never claim to be a good Christian, though.

[mpjh]

I am a scientist. Faith is not what I must reconcile.

I am too.

Science only covers that which is known, mostly (not wholly) the tangible. Faith covers the rest.

However, when I said "reconcile", rejection of God or Christianity is certainly a choice. It is not up to I or anyone else to decide your faith for you.

I appreciate your honesty, but I disagree. Science is really about the unknown, an exploration of the unknown. That is the whole purpose of science. Faith, in its most pedantic sense, is about the unknowable. Because I am a scientist, I look for evidence of the truth, what I find is, well, unknown until I find it.

It really comes down to curiosity. Science is the result of curiosity. Faith is its demise.

[PLAYER57832]

It really comes down to curiosity. Science is the result of curiosity. Faith is its demise.

Except, I would say that is itself an unscientific comment. Science IS about exploring the unkown, but it in no way precludes faith.

However, that is way off topic.

[luns101]

You're all heretics...only 1 man is truly Christian as he converted to Latvian Orthodox back in the 90's.

[mpjh]

It really comes down to curiosity. Science is the result of curiosity. Faith is its demise.

Except, I would say that is itself an unscientific comment. Science IS about exploring the unkown, but it in no way precludes faith.

However, that is way off topic.

Never said that faith precludes science. What I said was the faith stifles curiosity. That is why religious people need preachers in the pulpit to tell them what to believe.

[mpjh]

suggs converted?

You're all heretics...only 1 man is truly Christian as he converted to Latvian Orthodox back in the 90's.

[PLAYER57832]

Never said that faith precludes science. What I said was the faith stifles curiosity. That is why religious people need preachers in the pulpit to tell them what to believe.

Except it doesn't.

... and that is certainly not why my church has Pastors. But again this is off topic. You don't have to like religion, but your criticisms seem more directed at your own former faith than at mine... or that of most people I know.

[mpjh]

Nope, been in a lot of churches, seen a lot of different religions, and they all have dogma and elders or pastors, or priests, or preachers telling the members what is true and what is not, except maybe the Buddhists.

[Zeppflyer]

Nope, been in a lot of churches, seen a lot of different religions, and they all have dogma and elders or pastors, or priests, or preachers telling the members what is true and what is not, except maybe the Buddhists.

Yes. many people do accept religious dogma unthingkingly, just as many people accept what scientists and pseudoscientists say unthinkingly. Have you gone out and tested relativity yourself? Can you say from your own experience what the breaking strain of 4040 stainless steel is? How many people blindly accept the areligious code of morality that they have chosen? How many mindlessly follow the teachings of the church of Oprah, Richard Dawkins, or Al Gore? Did most agnostics become such through careful thought or simple laziness?

We all accept a certain amount received knowledge. Many of us are careful of what sources we trust, whether they be scientific, religious, or both. Many are not. Many simply accept that their car runs when they push the pedal or that God wants us to attend church once a week. Many more look under the hood to figure out how the engine works or why we should give up a couple of hours every Sunday. Those that do then build on that knowledge to tune the engine until it purrs and apply their faith in the most effective way.

Thoughtfulness and curiosity or lack thereof are not related to where a person starts to seek truth, but how they got to where they are, and where they go from there.

[PopeBenXVI]

After seeing Ben stein's EXPELLED and when he interviews Dawkins and a couple scientists about evolution I realized I must now convert. His explanation of how we came into being "on the backs of crystals" made sooooo much more sense than ID. I must blindly follow it now because they are scientists.

[PLAYER57832]

After seeing Ben stein's EXPELLED and when he interviews Dawkins and a couple scientists about evolution I realized I must now convert. His explanation of how we came into being "on the backs of crystals" made sooooo much more sense than ID. I must blindly follow it now because they are scientists.

NEWS FLASH:

The Roman Catholic Church has accepted the theory of Evolution for quite some time.

[muy_thaiguy]

After seeing Ben stein's EXPELLED and when he interviews Dawkins and a couple scientists about evolution I realized I must now convert. His explanation of how we came into being "on the backs of crystals" made sooooo much more sense than ID. I must blindly follow it now because they are scientists.

NEWS FLASH:

The Roman Catholic Church has accepted the theory of Evolution for quite some time.

Not all congregations have though. The heads of the church, yes. Every single member of a billion member religion? No.

[Frigidus]

After seeing Ben stein's EXPELLED and when he interviews Dawkins and a couple scientists about evolution I realized I must now convert. His explanation of how we came into being "on the backs of crystals" made sooooo much more sense than ID. I must blindly follow it now because they are scientists.

NEWS FLASH:

The Roman Catholic Church has accepted the theory of Evolution for quite some time.

Not all congregations have though. The heads of the church, yes. Every single member of a billion member religion? No.

Well, hey, we're talking to the Pope here. Actually, Pope, what is with the hat? It's kind of over the top.

[Zeppflyer]

After seeing Ben stein's EXPELLED and when he interviews Dawkins and a couple scientists about evolution I realized I must now convert. His explanation of how we came into being "on the backs of crystals" made sooooo much more sense than ID. I must blindly follow it now because they are scientists.

NEWS FLASH:

The Roman Catholic Church has accepted the theory of Evolution for quite some time.

Not all congregations have though. The heads of the church, yes. Every single member of a billion member religion? No.

Well, hey, we're talking to the Pope here. Actually, Pope, what is with the hat? It's kind of over the top.

Official teaching is that it doesn't matter whether you believe in 7 Day Creationism or Theistic Evolution so long as you do believe that 1) There was a first man and woman capable of knowing God and knowing right from wrong (whether they were the first protohumans to have the light go off or they were the literal Adam and Eve) and 2) Whether the Universe has been running and evolving for billions of years or 4,00ish, God set it into motion and now guides and sustains it.

[PLAYER57832]

After seeing Ben stein's EXPELLED and when he interviews Dawkins and a couple scientists about evolution I realized I must now convert. His explanation of how we came into being "on the backs of crystals" made sooooo much more sense than ID. I must blindly follow it now because they are scientists.

NEWS FLASH:

The Roman Catholic Church has accepted the theory of Evolution for quite some time.

Not all congregations have though. The heads of the church, yes. Every single member of a billion member religion? No.

Well, hey, we're talking to the Pope here. Actually, Pope, what is with the hat? It's kind of over the top.

Official teaching is that it doesn't matter whether you believe in 7 Day Creationism or Theistic Evolution so long as you do believe that 1) There was a first man and woman capable of knowing God and knowing right from wrong (whether they were the first protohumans to have the light go off or they were the literal Adam and Eve) and 2) Whether the Universe has been running and evolving for billions of years or 4,00ish, God set it into motion and now guides and sustains it.

Having just had a long and detailed discussion with the local diocese on this, you are incorrect at least in most of the U.S.

That said, there absolutely are individuals and likely even Priests who are completley unaware that the Roman Catholic Religion DOES accept Evolution.

By-the-way, though I get into this in detail in the Real University (and that VERY long Creation thread ... though you have to page back to the 70's through 90's or so), but the plain fact is that if the Earth is only 6000 years old, then either most of science (practically all of Geology, Paleontology, Biology, Hydrology, Chemistry, Physics, etc., ETC. are flat wrong) OR God created the Earth to seem as if it were older. To beleive otherwise requires NOT learning real science.

[PLAYER57832]

NEWS FLASH:

The Roman Catholic Church has accepted the theory of Evolution for quite some time.

Not all congregations have though. The heads of the church, yes. Every single member of a billion member religion? No.

Of course not all individuals agree with the Pope, but while individuals will not be excommunicated for thinking the Earth is young, Roman Catholic schools are supposed to teach Evolution and not Creationism, except as a "couriosity" or "awareness of what other people think" type issue.

Also, though as a Protestant, I am free to decide for myself just about everything (within limits -- though not on the "big stuff" -- God, Christ, etc.), Roman Catholics are given much stricter rules and guidelines.

[PopeBenXVI]

Where does the Bible have the list of "the big stuff" and then the list of the other stuff it says you can decide for yourself on? Please cite the Book and chapter?

The Catholic Church teaches Creationism. That teaching originated in the Catholic Church as has been taught sinse the begining. To make a blank statement saying the Catholic Church teaches Evolution is not a fair statement to make without explaining it. This is a very basic explanation I am about to give but it’s getting late for me and frankly….I am getting lazy tonight.

Most people would take that statement as believing we evolved from apes which is not at all Catholic teaching and is in fact heretical. We can believe in physical evolutions with our bodies changing but we as humans always have been so and always had the knowledge of God and eternal soul which no animals have. No Catholic is obligated to believe the world is any particular age as the Church has not nor does it feel it needs to officially define that for or as the deposit of Faith.

Their is much false and partial information here being said about official Catholic teaching from many people who I am sure do not have a Catechism of the Catholic Church in their hand let alone a book self full of encyclicals or a Masters Degree in Catholic Theology. I have all the above. Many online soarces are way off as well. Unless you can point to specific declaration of faith made by the Magisterium it is not official Catholic Teaching. Telling me what your Protestant friend told you Catholics believe or what you remember some heretical Sister teaching you in Catholic school back in the 70's does not count as official Catholic Doctrine.

[Carnifex]

The Catholic Church teaches Creationism. That teaching originated in the Catholic Church as has been taught sinse the begining. To make a blank statement saying the Catholic Church teaches Evolution is not a fair statement to make without explaining it. This is a very basic explanation I am about to give but it’s getting late for me and frankly….I am getting lazy tonight.

So why did Father George Coyne, the former Chief Astronomer of the Vatican say "Intelligent design isn't science even though it pretends to be. If you want to teach it in schools, intelligent design should be taught when religion or cultural history is taught, not science."
http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2 ... omer_x.htm

Most people would take that statement as believing we evolved from apes which is not at all Catholic teaching and is in fact heretical.

Heresy is a pretty strong word. What are you basing that charge on?

Also did you just call the former Cardinal Josef Ratzinger a heretic?

While the story of human origins is complex and subject to revision, physical anthropology and molecular biology combine to make a convincing case for the origin of the human species in Africa about 150,000 years ago in a humanoid population of common genetic lineage. However it is to be explained, the decisive factor in human origins was a continually increasing brain size, culminating in that of homo sapiens.

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/cti_documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20040723_communion-stewardship_en.html

Their is much false and partial information here being said about official Catholic teaching from many people who I am sure do not have a Catechism of the Catholic Church in their hand let alone a book self full of encyclicals or a Masters Degree in Catholic Theology. I have all the above. Many online soarces are way off as well. Unless you can point to specific declaration of faith made by the Magisterium it is not official Catholic Teaching. Telling me what your Protestant friend told you Catholics believe or what you remember some heretical Sister teaching you in Catholic school back in the 70's does not count as official Catholic Doctrine.

What part of Sacred Doctrine does evolution contradict?

[Frigidus]

What part of Sacred Doctrine does evolution contradict?

The Bible.