Why do people believe in God ?

[pmchugh]

Fundamentally, I agree with you, but your arguments are based on things that you really haven't thought through. You actually use TV shows as a point of reference to describe your lack of faith. That's pretty sad.

They were used as examples, of how people can be fooled/ believe in things that are clearly untrue.

Fact of the matter is, there can be only one truth. If the Judaic Christian god is the one and only true god, then its claim that jesus is the only way to salvation is true. You can't argue that other religions are valid if Christianity is valid. There can be only one truth even if that truth is that there is no god and that we fade into and out of existence only once.

My point is that only one belief is correct, and I don't see what makes chritianity stand out in the crowd. The bible was written by humans, humans make mistakes. I have see no proof nor heard anything that makes it sound more likely than any other leading religion.

Major flaws in your post:
1. there can be only one truth. your assumption that christianity is wrong because it claims to be the one true faith is not sound. Find another reason.

Its merely the likelyness of it being the only true religion. If millions of others throughout history have been wrong then whats to say you are right? Again I see nothing special about christianity.

2. you have no idea what happens to ants when they die. No one does, because no one knows what happens to anything when it dies, least of all people.

Of course, we are debating what happens to humans when you die, no one knows what happens. My point was either way you answer the question it doesn't make sense.

3. It was a fucking TV show!

It was a fucking example! There are many others e.g. heavens gate, who all comitted suicide believing in some rubbish. I was merely pointing out people who are completely convinced of religions that seem silly and extremely unlikely. How do you know that yours is any different if you are as convinced as they are about it being true.

4. were you there during old testament times? The 10 commandments are the basis for a vast majority of laws around the world. They all make sense.

Maybe that was a bad example how about:

Leviticus 19:19: "'You are to keep My statutes. You shall not breed together two kinds of your cattle; you shall not sow your field with two kinds of seed, nor wear a garment upon you of two kinds of material mixed together."

The old testement is full of ridiculous rules and guidings, so why believe any of it. Another example: Genisis, Its been scientifically proven that it is worng.

In summary:
What makes christianity the correct religion, what makes you think it is special. I see nothing special about it so why should I believe it.

Bible is full of rubbish (imo) so why should we take the parts of it that do make some sense to be true.

[hulmey]

Yes the Christian church has set a fine standard in tolerance, heresy is still a sin I believe !

heresy was not God's will. I think you are confusing the 2 things. I will say 2 final things. Come back to this topic in 20 years time when you have grown up and fully understand the world and others. Finally, God is built on faith, he cannot be fully proven or discredited. It comes down to strong belief and faith. If you have dont have belief, trust and faith in yourself or others, then how can you believe in God!

[mpjh]

Yes the Christian church has set a fine standard in tolerance, heresy is still a sin I believe !

heresy was not God's will. I think you are confusing the 2 things. I will say 2 final things. Come back to this topic in 20 years time when you have grown up and fully understand the world and others. Finally, God is built on faith, he cannot be fully proven or discredited. It comes down to strong belief and faith. If you have dont have belief, trust and faith in yourself or others, then how can you believe in God!

Hulmey, you are so full of it. I have been around now for 62 years. I studied in seminary throughout high school. I am a veteran. I have been married over 39 years. God is a myth created by man to explain what he doesn't understand. I believe firmly in mankind, and know that we will survive only if we come to terms with the cruelty and intolerance that religion engenders throughout the world. Otherwise, the roaches win.

[Frigidus]

Yes the Christian church has set a fine standard in tolerance, heresy is still a sin I believe !

heresy was not God's will. I think you are confusing the 2 things. I will say 2 final things. Come back to this topic in 20 years time when you have grown up and fully understand the world and others. Finally, God is built on faith, he cannot be fully proven or discredited. It comes down to strong belief and faith. If you have dont have belief, trust and faith in yourself or others, then how can you believe in God!

I'll give you belief, but trust/faith in others does not strictly belong to religion. Trust/faith in god(s) is certainly their territory, but I have no problem completely trusting my friends and family.

[comic boy]

Yes the Christian church has set a fine standard in tolerance, heresy is still a sin I believe !

heresy was not God's will. I think you are confusing the 2 things. I will say 2 final things. Come back to this topic in 20 years time when you have grown up and fully understand the world and others. Finally, God is built on faith, he cannot be fully proven or discredited. It comes down to strong belief and faith. If you have dont have belief, trust and faith in yourself or others, then how can you believe in God!

Hulmey

Your patronising tosh doesnt wash with me, or it appears anybody else, so give it a rest.
As for being juvenile must I remind you who the moderators are currently investigating for sending childish, abusive Pms ? Lastly how exactly do you know what Gods will is,talk to you does he, heresy is part of the Christian tradition and has been since the days of Peter, perhaps everything done since then has not been ' Gods Will '

[Dancing Mustard]

Yes the Christian church has set a fine standard in tolerance, heresy is still a sin I believe !

Finally, God is built on faith, he cannot be fully proven or discredited.

Wrong.

Only those who feel the need to fall back on 'faith' arguments think that he can't be proven/discredited.

Put it this way, does the fact that I have utmost faith that there are leprechauns living inside my keyboard mean that you can't prove that they don't exist? I have 'faith' that I have twenty five index fingers growing out of my right elbow... does that mean you can't discredit the idea?

Sorry, but this whole "We say it's faith, that makes it special and off-limits to logic" line of argument is ridiculous; just because you take your religious beliefs really seriously doesn't give them some magical protected status... they're just opinions and theories like everything else.


Disclaimer: I'm not saying that I don't think you should hold religious beliefs, and I'm not saying that science is at a point where it can disprove all conceptions of a God... I'm just really bored of hearing silly arguments like: "Faith! Faith! This odd belief is special because it's based on Faith. Which is definitely something completely different from, and far more noble than, simple illogical belief. Now stop trying to use logic to debate with, we're talking about God!!!1"

[Gregrios]

the question is why certain people feel the need to believe in a God.

Because most human beings can't deal with the fact that we are mortal and life ends when we die. They need the security of a higher power and/or after death destination to make it through their daily lives. It is very comforting to them to have these things to rely on when times are tough or bad things happen. These superstitions also ease the passing of loved ones young & old as they can sleep well believing that they have moved onto something else, instead of just ceasing to exist.

Can you name one person who chose to believe in a higher power for the reasons you have stated?

Yes, my mother, my sister, my grandmother, my mother-in-law, my brother, the list is long but these are a few

Where's your proof?

[Gregrios]

the question is why certain people feel the need to believe in a God.

Because most human beings can't deal with the fact that we are mortal and life ends when we die. They need the security of a higher power and/or after death destination to make it through their daily lives. It is very comforting to them to have these things to rely on when times are tough or bad things happen. These superstitions also ease the passing of loved ones young & old as they can sleep well believing that they have moved onto something else, instead of just ceasing to exist.

Can you name one person who chose to believe in a higher power for the reasons you have stated?

Are you seriously saying that you dont believe that those points are relevant to anyone

I'm saying that those are not reasons, they are merely benefits.

[PLAYER57832]

Firstly, i off course was referring to the theory of gravity, i was just being lazy.

Secondly, what i was trying to point out is that the argument "it cannot be proven false" is completely worthless.

No, it is the very foundation of science.

What i was trying to point out however is that in the case of most believers (perhaps with the exception of those who have had things which might be considered miracles happen to them), the level of faith necessary isn`t anywhere near to the level of faith necessary in the scientists case( oh and i would hope most scientists wouldn`t stake their reputations based only on a dream, without any other support whatsoever )

I can see you don't know a great many real scientists... those working on ideas, that is, not just the techs who implement and test the ideas.

You mistake the standards necessary to be published in a scientific journal, which are extremely narrow with the standards necessary to begin research, which are very broad. That someone can even ask a question and formulate a plausible test is enough to seek funding and grants. And, yes, their reputation can be made or broken simply based upon the choices they make, rather than just the quality of their science. Behind and beside every noble laureate are hundreds or more scientists who just happened to choose the wrong idea to follow.

It was not so long ago that the whole idea that bacteria might cause ulcers or a virus cause cervicle cancer were each considered plain ludicrous. Yet, a few scientists persisted and recently each got the noble prize for their discoveries.

You want miracles to prove faith? I see miracles every day I look out my window. Real, bonafide miracles! I have had experiences that confirm my faith to me, though some are personal and others are just not easy to explain to someone else, particularly over the internet.

....the majority of believers i know haven`t reached their conclusions through "trying to conceive the unknown" and so forth, but more from learning the respective faith from relatives and never really bothering to think it through.

And a large number of those who study science cannot explain how even basic principles operate. In the end, we all end up trusting ourselves and what we CAN know and see and comparing it to what people tell us.

We shouldn`t just "respect each others opinion", we (as a society) need to really discuss this issue, religion needs to stop being that "sacred" thing and needs to start being seriously debated(outside of internet forums and obscure documentaries i mean)

I like to discuss anything (pretty obvious, I guess ). But, most people just don't ahve time or energy. Also, too many people plain get offended when others disagree at a serious level. I, too think we are better off when we can discuss things, but we are in the minority in that. AND, it is important to remember the root of most manners rules ... to make others comfortable in our presence.

When you have to work and live next to someone who has very differant ideas or beliefs from your own, sometimes it is best to just leave certain issues aside ... to "agree to disagree".

[PLAYER57832]

Yes the Christian church has set a fine standard in tolerance, heresy is still a sin I believe "

Sins apply to the Christian, not "outsiders". Either you have a faith that sets forth a truth and those who disagree are not part of it or you believe that there is no one, true path. Christianity has one path. Hinduism does not.

But anyway.. there is a BIG differance between what is true Christianity and what many, many people decide Christianity can justify. Christ teaches above all else that we love one another. The harshest thing he told his disciples was to "shake the dust off the feet" from towns without one believer. In today's vernacular: "live and let live".

[comic boy]

Yes the Christian church has set a fine standard in tolerance, heresy is still a sin I believe "

Sins apply to the Christian, not "outsiders". Either you have a faith that sets forth a truth and those who disagree are not part of it or you believe that there is no one, true path. Christianity has one path. Hinduism does not.

But anyway.. there is a BIG differance between what is true Christianity and what many, many people decide Christianity can justify. Christ teaches above all else that we love one another. The harshest thing he told his disciples was to "shake the dust off the feet" from towns without one believer. In today's vernacular: "live and let live".

Yes but unfortunately many of those not following Christ's lead have held positions of power within the church , it is they who have decided policy , they who have persecuted other Christians, they who have left a historical legacy that was far from tolerant. Anybody following tribal customs or who held Pagan beliefs was considered Godless and therefore sub human, this was held to be self evident by Christians and simply not questioned, we are not talking about just a handfull being intolerant of the beliefs of others.
Again and again I hear the excuse that certain actions were not ' Christian ' certain people were not acting in a true ' Christian way ' but the fact is that without these people the church would never have prospered as it has. If you want to use the ' goodness and love '
card then you have to accept that it covers certain individuals but not the edifice of Christianity. Just consider the fact that your Sabbath is named after the Pagan Sun God, that tells you something of the compromise and accomodation that was required for the religion to survive.

[PLAYER57832]

Again and again I hear the excuse that certain actions were not ' Christian ' certain people were not acting in a true ' Christian way ' but the fact is that without these people the church would never have prospered as it has. If you want to use the ' goodness and love ' card then you have to accept that it covers certain individuals but not the edifice of Christianity. Just consider the fact that your Sabbath is named after the Pagan Sun God, that tells you something of the compromise and accomodation that was required for the religion to survive.

Christ himself said it best: "You hypocrites!"

It is why we are forgiven, not perfect.

[Juan_Bottom]

Do you remember that part in the Bible where Jesus said "Man, I could go for a friggin' Moon Pie right now, but they wont be invented for like 2,000 years."

Oh right, that didn't happened. Course if It had, I might believe him. Unless I can interperet some part of the Bible to mean that....

[Simon Viavant]

Firstly, i off course was referring to the theory of gravity, i was just being lazy.

Secondly, what i was trying to point out is that the argument "it cannot be proven false" is completely worthless.

No, it is the very foundation of science.

Exactly what I'm saying. I am ridiculed for my belief that there are small green tree women with magic powers watching over us, BUT IT CAN"T BE DISPROVEN. Anyone who rules it out is an illogical bigot. Who are they to say it's not true when they can't prove it's not?

You want miracles to prove faith? I see miracles every day I look out my window. Real, bonafide miracles! I have had experiences that confirm my faith to me, though some are personal and others are just not easy to explain to someone else, particularly over the internet.

More clear proof of the existence of the small green tree women! Why do you people keep denying clear logic?

[mpjh]

Do you remember that part in the Bible where Jesus said "Man, I could go for a friggin' Moon Pie right now, but they wont be invented for like 2,000 years."

Oh right, that didn't happened. Course if It had, I might believe him. Unless I can interperet some part of the Bible to mean that....

But he did say to Mary Magdalen, "These sheep gut prophylactics never work, wish we had latex -- ooooppps another 2000 years before that is available." And thus, we got the holy grail.

[Juan_Bottom]

"God is as real as I" and my faith was restored, for I knew Santa would never lie.

[black elk speaks]

Fundamentally, I agree with you, but your arguments are based on things that you really haven't thought through. You actually use TV shows as a point of reference to describe your lack of faith. That's pretty sad.

They were used as examples, of how people can be fooled/ believe in things that are clearly untrue.

Fact of the matter is, there can be only one truth. If the Judaic Christian god is the one and only true god, then its claim that jesus is the only way to salvation is true. You can't argue that other religions are valid if Christianity is valid. There can be only one truth even if that truth is that there is no god and that we fade into and out of existence only once.

My point is that only one belief is correct, and I don't see what makes chritianity stand out in the crowd. The bible was written by humans, humans make mistakes. I have see no proof nor heard anything that makes it sound more likely than any other leading religion.

Major flaws in your post:
1. there can be only one truth. your assumption that christianity is wrong because it claims to be the one true faith is not sound. Find another reason.

Its merely the likelyness of it being the only true religion. If millions of others throughout history have been wrong then whats to say you are right? Again I see nothing special about christianity.

2. you have no idea what happens to ants when they die. No one does, because no one knows what happens to anything when it dies, least of all people.

Of course, we are debating what happens to humans when you die, no one knows what happens. My point was either way you answer the question it doesn't make sense.

3. It was a fucking TV show!

It was a fucking example! There are many others e.g. heavens gate, who all comitted suicide believing in some rubbish. I was merely pointing out people who are completely convinced of religions that seem silly and extremely unlikely. How do you know that yours is any different if you are as convinced as they are about it being true.

4. were you there during old testament times? The 10 commandments are the basis for a vast majority of laws around the world. They all make sense.

Maybe that was a bad example how about:

Leviticus 19:19: "'You are to keep My statutes. You shall not breed together two kinds of your cattle; you shall not sow your field with two kinds of seed, nor wear a garment upon you of two kinds of material mixed together."

The old testement is full of ridiculous rules and guidings, so why believe any of it. Another example: Genisis, Its been scientifically proven that it is worng.

In summary:
What makes christianity the correct religion, what makes you think it is special. I see nothing special about it so why should I believe it.

Bible is full of rubbish (imo) so why should we take the parts of it that do make some sense to be true.

Thats just it, its your opinion. the thread here isn't called "hey dumb f*ck, why don't you believe in god?" Its called why do people believe in god. you spend much time telling people what you think of religion (particularly Christianity) when you have no business answering except to speculate. But while you're bullshitting, why don't you tell everyone why you hate Buddhism or Hinduism, or Shintoism, Taoism or any other faith. Don't be so biased as the faith that yo report to call rubbish. These are peoples beliefs, and even as you claim that Christianity sucks because it claims to be the one true religion, you denounce it by making a claim of your own, disrespecting the religion, and hypocritically whoring your opinion by being that what you suggest that you hate: self righteous.

[Simon Viavant]

Yes, the thread's about why people believe in god, and he stated his take on that, that it's a result of fear (of death and other things.)

[Iliad]

Fundamentally, I agree with you, but your arguments are based on things that you really haven't thought through. You actually use TV shows as a point of reference to describe your lack of faith. That's pretty sad.

They were used as examples, of how people can be fooled/ believe in things that are clearly untrue.

Fact of the matter is, there can be only one truth. If the Judaic Christian god is the one and only true god, then its claim that jesus is the only way to salvation is true. You can't argue that other religions are valid if Christianity is valid. There can be only one truth even if that truth is that there is no god and that we fade into and out of existence only once.

My point is that only one belief is correct, and I don't see what makes chritianity stand out in the crowd. The bible was written by humans, humans make mistakes. I have see no proof nor heard anything that makes it sound more likely than any other leading religion.

Major flaws in your post:
1. there can be only one truth. your assumption that christianity is wrong because it claims to be the one true faith is not sound. Find another reason.

Its merely the likelyness of it being the only true religion. If millions of others throughout history have been wrong then whats to say you are right? Again I see nothing special about christianity.

2. you have no idea what happens to ants when they die. No one does, because no one knows what happens to anything when it dies, least of all people.

Of course, we are debating what happens to humans when you die, no one knows what happens. My point was either way you answer the question it doesn't make sense.

3. It was a fucking TV show!

It was a fucking example! There are many others e.g. heavens gate, who all comitted suicide believing in some rubbish. I was merely pointing out people who are completely convinced of religions that seem silly and extremely unlikely. How do you know that yours is any different if you are as convinced as they are about it being true.

4. were you there during old testament times? The 10 commandments are the basis for a vast majority of laws around the world. They all make sense.

Maybe that was a bad example how about:

Leviticus 19:19: "'You are to keep My statutes. You shall not breed together two kinds of your cattle; you shall not sow your field with two kinds of seed, nor wear a garment upon you of two kinds of material mixed together."

The old testement is full of ridiculous rules and guidings, so why believe any of it. Another example: Genisis, Its been scientifically proven that it is worng.

In summary:
What makes christianity the correct religion, what makes you think it is special. I see nothing special about it so why should I believe it.

Bible is full of rubbish (imo) so why should we take the parts of it that do make some sense to be true.

Thats just it, its your opinion. the thread here isn't called "hey dumb f*ck, why don't you believe in god?" Its called why do people believe in god. you spend much time telling people what you think of religion (particularly Christianity) when you have no business answering except to speculate. But while you're bullshitting, why don't you tell everyone why you hate Buddhism or Hinduism, or Shintoism, Taoism or any other faith. Don't be so biased as the faith that yo report to call rubbish. These are peoples beliefs, and even as you claim that Christianity sucks because it claims to be the one true religion, you denounce it by making a claim of your own, disrespecting the religion, and hypocritically whoring your opinion by being that what you suggest that you hate: self righteous.

Wow. That's all I have to say. Wow

One of the three mods of the so called Civil debate clan. In what way was that civil in any way?
Let's see you
a) Dismissed his opinion as insignificant and important
b)Called him a dumb f*ck
c) Telling him he should not even sharing his opinion
d) Outright say he is lying and that he is doing it on purpose
e) Call him a hypocrite
f) Call him self-righteous

Now now, BES. If you are a mod of a clan bent on debating civilly maybe you shouldn't have your entire "arguments" consist of ad hominem.

[black elk speaks]

Wow. That's all I have to say. Wow

One of the three mods of the so called Civil debate clan. In what way was that civil in any way?
Let's see you

This isn't civil debate though, is it? Funny, I thought this was the self acclaimed cess pool of ridicule and idealism of the internet. silly me.

a) Dismissed his opinion as insignificant and important

His opinion was on the topic of why he does not subscribe to a religion and then proceeded to berate one. His opinion was off topic.

b) Called him a dumb f*ck

No I didn't, I suggested an appropriate title for his off topic discussion.

c) Telling him he should not even sharing his opinion

Not if his opinion was off topic, he shouldn't.

d) Outright say he is lying and that he is doing it on purpose

Where did I say that? and a lie, by definition, is on purpose, so you are redundant.

e) Call him a hypocrite

no argument there, he is a self righteous hypocrite against self righteous hypocrites.

f) Call him self-righteous

See above

Now now, BES. If you are a mod of a clan bent on debating civilly maybe you shouldn't have your entire "arguments" consist of ad hominem.

sure, in the tavern, that would be how I post, but here, its all about the ad ho minim,

[Juan_Bottom]

sure, in the tavern, that would be how I post, but here, its all about the ad ho minim,

Then I never want to hear you use that as the reason that these fine gentlemen can't get in.

[black elk speaks]

sure, in the tavern, that would be how I post, but here, its all about the ad ho minim,

Then I never want to hear you use that as the reason that these fine gentlemen can't get in.

suck it up butter cup, its all these kids can do is ridicule to make their baseless points. Was I terse? Sure, but lets face it. His arguments against Christianity are crap, and in a thread that isn't about Christianity specifically, nor is it about why he hates religion or what ever his problem is. And you never get to talk about flying off the handle. It is ALL you do.

[Juan_Bottom]

suck it up butter cup, its all these kids can do is ridicule to make their baseless points. Was I terse? Sure, but lets face it. His arguments against Christianity are crap, and in a thread that isn't about Christianity specifically, nor is it about why he hates religion or what ever his problem is.

I never said anything about that. You're acting like a politician here.

And you never get to talk about flying off the handle. It is ALL you do.

I never said anything about you flying off the handle either.

But I'll tell you what I did say:

sure, in the tavern, that would be how I post, but here, its all about the ad ho minim,

Then I never want to hear you use that as the reason that these fine gentlemen can't get in.

And I stand by my reply.

[black elk speaks]

suck it up butter cup, its all these kids can do is ridicule to make their baseless points. Was I terse? Sure, but lets face it. His arguments against Christianity are crap, and in a thread that isn't about Christianity specifically, nor is it about why he hates religion or what ever his problem is.

I never said anything about that. You're acting like a politician here.

And you never get to talk about flying off the handle. It is ALL you do.

I never said anything about you flying off the handle either.

But I'll tell you what I did say:

sure, in the tavern, that would be how I post, but here, its all about the ad ho minim,

Then I never want to hear you use that as the reason that these fine gentlemen can't get in.

And I stand by my reply.

Am I wrong? Is this forum not all about ridicule? 99% of the time, thats all there is here.

[Juan_Bottom]

Am I wrong? Is this forum not all about ridicule? 99% of the time, thats all there is here.

That is a good part of it. But that's not what I'm saying. I'm just saying that it is unfair for anyone to hold someone else up to a set of rules that they themselves don't follow. Call it "honor among theives" if it's easier to understand.