Conquer Club

poo-maker wrote: I don't think that manimals suggestion would actually affect 1v1 noob farmers at all- max. 1v1 freestyle games started by new recruits are quickly gobbled up by the noob farmers.

calm down Maxey- you'll still be able to farm points.

*manimal wrote:

poo-maker wrote:

blakebowling wrote:

*manimal wrote:max you got this wrong its for a new recruit that never even plays a turn. if he plays a turn then deadbeats he loses points.

no, this is for anyone that hasn't finished 5 games, and deadbeats, sorry, but your strategy is fucked

I like manimals take on the suggestion. It prevents points being won from new recruits that didn't bother to show up to play a single round.

I am pretty sure that the majority of new recruit deadbeats are in the 8 player games. That is because they join the game, find out that it hasn't started (spots left waiting to fill) and leave due to boredom. I don't think that manimals suggestion would actually affect 1v1 noob farmers at all- max. 1v1 freestyle games started by new recruits are quickly gobbled up by the noob farmers. Thus, the games start very quickly and the new recruits play their first turn...

Revisal for suggestion by Math: "No points for new recruit deadbeats that don't play a turn".

thanks for expanding on what I said poo I would love for this to happen. or to revoke klobbers foe list!

What about revoking your foe list, foe'ing me because I "take up the whole 5 minnutes in a speed game"

blakebowling wrote:

*manimal wrote:

poo-maker wrote:

blakebowling wrote:

*manimal wrote:max you got this wrong its for a new recruit that never even plays a turn. if he plays a turn then deadbeats he loses points.

no, this is for anyone that hasn't finished 5 games, and deadbeats, sorry, but your strategy is fucked

I like manimals take on the suggestion. It prevents points being won from new recruits that didn't bother to show up to play a single round.

I am pretty sure that the majority of new recruit deadbeats are in the 8 player games. That is because they join the game, find out that it hasn't started (spots left waiting to fill) and leave due to boredom. I don't think that manimals suggestion would actually affect 1v1 noob farmers at all- max. 1v1 freestyle games started by new recruits are quickly gobbled up by the noob farmers. Thus, the games start very quickly and the new recruits play their first turn...

Revisal for suggestion by Math: "No points for new recruit deadbeats that don't play a turn".

thanks for expanding on what I said poo I would love for this to happen. or to revoke klobbers foe list!

What about revoking your foe list, foe'ing me because I "take up the whole 5 minnutes in a speed game"

No I always take 5 mins in freestyle I just dont like you.

*manimal wrote:

blakebowling wrote:What about revoking your foe list, foe'ing me because I "take up the whole 5 minnutes in a speed game"

No I always take 5 mins in freestyle I just dont like you.

again, may I remind you that I am quoted in your signature? and why don't you like me, because I can beat you?

Oooops...there are two things on the "To Do" list that completely conflict with each other.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=40294

Paddy The Cat wrote:good idea in theory, but needs work

how about you just disallow new recruits to join/start 1v1s? seems simplest and most direct approach.. if they wanna play 1v1s too bad-suck it up, play 4 games, then go crazy

That wont work either. Take a look at this Game 3066796, and tell me JR deserved those points.

If, while playing 1v1, a '?' deadbeats you shouldnt get the points coz you ain't earned them. You don't lose anything, your win/lose record goes up by 1 but your score dont. C'est la vie.

Maybe not no points. Maybe half points? No points seems a bit extreme for freemiums.

I am bumping this because there are so many threads right now in this forum that are meant to combat point farming, and this does that.

If there are no points for new recruit deatbeats... that is pretty much the entire amount of point the farmers earn. Yes, there are those that play the entire game, but lets face it, out of this small portion of new recruits left, there are several things that will make the farmers lose points instead of gain them:
1. Dice... even the best farmer loses several games because of them, sometimes it is just impossible to win, even if the opponent is making moves that would usually result in a loss within 3 rounds.
2. Multi's. Of the new recruits that do play, many of them are simply other people's accounts that get busted anyways, but only after they steal a heck of a lot of points from the farmer.

My 2 cents: how about we let lack implement this, and see if farmers still find it profitable to play new recruits, when they only earn points off of a very small percentage of them. If that does not work, we can go back and post the same exact suggestions to combat point farming that have already been discussed and died because of major flaws.

The Neon Peon wrote:My 2 cents: how about we let lack implement this ...

How do we do that again ?

There's been a lot of talk about what to do with new recruits that take turns and then leave. My intentions when proposing this is that points shouldn't be rewarded for defeating a deadbeat that either takes 0 turns or 1 turn. If they take 2 or more turns then yes, the winner deserves points from them.

A long time ago, when the site first started, the rule was that if you take a couple turns and deadbeat, you lose points but if you take 0 or 1 turns you don't. The problem was that the experienced players would take advantage of this by deadbeating after bad starting positions. This suggestion is to bring back the old rule except restrict it to only new recruits so shouldn't be terribly difficult to implement (although I have no experience in such matters).

tubaman wrote:What happens if you are clearly about to win the game and that pisses off the new recruit and he deadbeats? Does that mean you don't deserve the points just because it was a new recruit and not anyone else?

I'd say "no points for new recruits that deadbeat within the first 5 turns."

FabledIntegral wrote:

tubaman wrote:What happens if you are clearly about to win the game and that pisses off the new recruit and he deadbeats? Does that mean you don't deserve the points just because it was a new recruit and not anyone else?

I'd say "no points for new recruits that deadbeat within the first 5 turns."

i can see that but it also leaves it open for new recruits to just leave a game to not lose points even though they will still stay to play on the site.

I think the best way is what Exile came up with: New recruits points go live* only after they join and begin their 5th game.

This way those who join the 4 free games, get board and leave forever, will not add to the point pool.
I think think those players are the most likely to deadbeat without playing at all.


*gaining or losing points

I don't think we can go ahead with this. Even though it will prevent abuse, people will be pissed off much more when they are stuck with a New Recruit Deadbeat (NRD). The NRD issue would become a much bigger problem than it is now, because the points act like compensation for the bad experience of playing with a NRD.

lackattack wrote:I don't think we can go ahead with this. Even though it will prevent abuse, people will be pissed off much more when they are stuck with a New Recruit Deadbeat (NRD). The NRD issue would become a much bigger problem than it is now, because the points act like compensation for the bad experience of playing with a NRD.

What if you were to significantly reduce the points rewarded? Could you set it as a predetermined number of points gained if a New Recruit deadbeats. Something like 5 points or something?

I agree with lack, as an ex freemi, I remember playing a match with 5 newbies all of which deadbeated, and what pissed me off was the fact I got no points for wasting 15 days + my turn time

Optimus Prime wrote:

lackattack wrote:I don't think we can go ahead with this. Even though it will prevent abuse, people will be pissed off much more when they are stuck with a New Recruit Deadbeat (NRD). The NRD issue would become a much bigger problem than it is now, because the points act like compensation for the bad experience of playing with a NRD.

What if you were to significantly reduce the points rewarded? Could you set it as a predetermined number of points gained if a New Recruit deadbeats. Something like 5 points or something?

Lawlz...Ill be up for a standard 5

The scoring system determines the value of your time wasted though, and by making it 5, it means that some peoples 3 days are worth more than others since the percentage change between 5, and the amount that the person would receive otherwise, may be significantly different.

lackattack wrote:I don't think we can go ahead with this. Even though it will prevent abuse, people will be pissed off much more when they are stuck with a New Recruit Deadbeat (NRD). The NRD issue would become a much bigger problem than it is now, because the points act like compensation for the bad experience of playing with a NRD.

Hardly - it might happen once in a while to a player, but if someone is continually having games with new recruits than it's obvious they are targeting them.

lackattack wrote:I don't think we can go ahead with this. Even though it will prevent abuse, people will be pissed off much more when they are stuck with a New Recruit Deadbeat (NRD). The NRD issue would become a much bigger problem than it is now, because the points act like compensation for the bad experience of playing with a NRD.

ok, I can understand that.
So perhaps the site can make the blatant Farming and targeting of New Recruit Deadbeats an offence!
Make it reportable in CandA to be adjudged by a Mod.

It is pretty easy to see who practices this.. (Just go and look at the waiting games of the top 5 or 10 on the scoreboard.)

Off the top of my head and to give a very clear and tangible ruling:

- If a player has a group of any given series of 20 games with more than 50% New Deadbeats then they are actively targeting and farming *
- If a player has a group of any given series of 20 games which include joining more than 50% new recruits in 1 v 1 they are also farming *
- If a player has a group of any given series of 20 games which includes a mix of the above resulting in 50% abusive games they are farming *

In these cases impose a Newblock so they can not play '?' 's

* the rule could not be retrospective


I am sure that people will try to get around arbitrary limits by playing up to the limit of New ones but it will be very difficult for them to keep ahead of the point handicap and maintain their silly-little false high-scores!

If imposing a general rule punishes the innocent with the guilty then be specific: determine who the guilty are and punish them.

Otherwise the scoreboard will remain the tasteless joke that it now represents!

lackattack wrote:I don't think we can go ahead with this. Even though it will prevent abuse, people will be pissed off much more when they are stuck with a New Recruit Deadbeat (NRD). The NRD issue would become a much bigger problem than it is now, because the points act like compensation for the bad experience of playing with a NRD.

i doubt people wouldnt join noob games just because they get no points
in fact, i would join more
i enjoy helping new people but at the moment, if i join a noob game im called a farmer and people think i only got to my rank because of farming (=i dont play new recruits any more)
however, if new recruits didnt give me points, i could easily play them
i bet im not the only one that thinks this way and the new recruits would have no problems filling games

lackattack,

I don't know how far along you are in implementing this, I hope you're not too far into the coding yet. Would it be possible to impliment this with the addition of retro-activity? I've played a few games where I've received points from deadbeat New Recruits and would gladly hand them back if I thought the professional deadbeat recruit farmers would also get hit where it hurts the most(in their huge hoard of deadbeat acquired points).

That would also drop the players whom deserve it most, right down the scoreboard where they belong.

Artimis wrote:lackattack,

I don't know how far along you are in implementing this, I hope you're not too far into the coding yet. Would it be possible to impliment this with the addition of retro-activity? I've played a few games where I've received points from deadbeat New Recruits and would gladly hand them back if I thought the professional deadbeat recruit farmers would also get hit where it hurts the most(in their huge hoard of deadbeat acquired points).

That would also drop the players whom deserve it most, right down the scoreboard where they belong.

I think that would be a lot more trouble than it is worth. If you look at a lot of early games (like before game 700,000) anyone who deadbeated did not lose points. When this was changed, it was not done retroactively.

lancehoch wrote:I think that would be a lot more trouble than it is worth. If you look at a lot of early games (like before game 700,000) anyone who deadbeated did not lose points. When this was changed, it was not done retroactively.

I'm sorry to hear that. Maybe not retroactive right the way back that far, but possibly back far enough to have some impact on the brazen New Recruit Deadbeat farmers? If even that would cause more trouble than it would fix then fair enough, we'll have to content ourselves with knowing that it's not as profitable for those NRD farmers as it used to be.

Artimis wrote:

lancehoch wrote:I think that would be a lot more trouble than it is worth. If you look at a lot of early games (like before game 700,000) anyone who deadbeated did not lose points. When this was changed, it was not done retroactively.

I'm sorry to hear that. Maybe not retroactive right the way back that far, but possibly back far enough to have some impact on the brazen New Recruit Deadbeat farmers? If even that would cause more trouble than it would fix then fair enough, we'll have to content ourselves with knowing that it's not as profitable for those NRD farmers as it used to be.

I'm quite sorry to say that this site fully and unquestionably supports new recruit farming, whether they're deadbeats or not.

Woodruff wrote:

Artimis wrote:

lancehoch wrote:I think that would be a lot more trouble than it is worth. If you look at a lot of early games (like before game 700,000) anyone who deadbeated did not lose points. When this was changed, it was not done retroactively.

I'm sorry to hear that. Maybe not retroactive right the way back that far, but possibly back far enough to have some impact on the brazen New Recruit Deadbeat farmers? If even that would cause more trouble than it would fix then fair enough, we'll have to content ourselves with knowing that it's not as profitable for those NRD farmers as it used to be.

I'm quite sorry to say that this site fully and unquestionably supports new recruit farming, whether they're deadbeats or not.

Not anymore it doesn't.

maybe another way, possibly already suggested, to combat newb point farming:

only allow newbs to join games with each other for the first 5 games, then let them in with the masses afterwards
we could also allow an experienced player or two to volunteer to create/join those games and play with newbs, possibly even help them, but earn/lose no points or wins/losses; you could probably make the whole game stat less for all players. give medals or some other reward for those who help out with this.

you can think of it as a training camp that won't allow the deadbeat newbs to mess up any of the real games

point farming doesn't really destroy the experience for most people, unless your one of the very FEW at the top of the leaderboard; the real issue is deadbeat newbs joining games and making the experience suck for EVERYONE. regular players can't be more assertive in joining open games without worrying whether deadbeat newbs will flood in afterwards and create a mess.