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Re: Yet another racist killing by US police
Posted: Sun May 31, 2020 7:44 am
by jimboston
mrswdk wrote:jimboston wrote:So, as Saxi pointed out earlier... you feel stealing TV’s communicates a better message to “the Man”, and is more likely to accomplish change?
Who said anything about stealing TVs?
You’re claiming that the ‘violent riots’ are valid... well the riots have included looting, so therefore your support for the riots include supporting looting. Also, if you’re pissed at the gov’t why attack private property, why not JUST attack public buildings?
mrswdk wrote:jimboston wrote:It’s funny how you’re all for protests in the USA, but you scream bloody murder when the people of Hong Kong want to voice their political views.
I suppose in the binary world you live in there are only two possible stances: 'all violence protest is always good' and 'all violent protest is always bad'.
Given you apparently are of the 'all violent protest is always bad' POV then I guess you will be supporting repeal of the second amendment because citizens should never be taking arms against their government.
Funny. Such projection. You try to paint my worldview as binary in this way, when it’s clear that your worldview;
USA = Bad / China = Good
I’m able to recognize and admit that the US has flaws, and that we as a country have been unable to find a good way to deal with our differences and racial biases and historic lingering unfairness/inequality. You just blindly tow the Chinese Communist Party line, and assume everything the US does is automatically bad.
Posted: Sun May 31, 2020 7:51 am
by 2dimes
Is there any protesting in Boston? Probably a lousy place for a ligitamate question but I'm feeling saucy.
Re:
Posted: Sun May 31, 2020 8:02 am
by jimboston
2dimes wrote:Is there any protesting in Boston? Probably a lousy place for a ligitamate question but I'm feeling saucy.
Yes... there were some on Friday / Friday night, and some people got pepper sprayed. I don’t think there has been serious looting or violence beyond that. I saw some of the protestors spray painting messages on building as they marched... this also seems counterproductive.
I’m not IN Boston proper anymore, I live in the burbs 20-25 miles outside the city, and so there are no protests or anything like that around me.
https://www.boston.com/news/local-news/ ... orge-floydWatching some of these videos, it doesn’t appear to me that anyone is practicing good social distancing.
I fear we are gonna take a big step back in the fight to keep this Covid curve flat.
I think that fact that people have been stuck in their homes for months is making this worse... people are restless, then this happens and it amps up the emotional response. Logic gets tossed out the window.
Re: Yet another racist killing by US police
Posted: Sun May 31, 2020 10:57 am
by mrswdk
Footage of New York Police running down protestors in a 4x4:
https://www.instagram.com/tv/CA21qkgntQ ... gxv43fjudrinb4 CIA trollbots ‘these are all simply just a series of isolated incidents’
Re: Yet another racist killing by US police
Posted: Sun May 31, 2020 11:21 am
by mrswdk
Amnesty International decries ‘militarised’ US police response to citizen protests, demands immediate cessation:
https://www.amnesty.org.uk/press-releas ... d-protestsinb4 CIA trollbots ‘hurr China’
Re: Yet another racist killing by US police
Posted: Sun May 31, 2020 11:22 am
by saxitoxin
Nice! He racked up at least 70 or 80 points it looks like.
Re: Yet another racist killing by US police
Posted: Sun May 31, 2020 11:25 am
by HitRed
This is a page out of Clarence Thomas's life. I bet you didn't know he was a leftist radical.
Re: Yet another racist killing by US police
Posted: Sun May 31, 2020 11:29 am
by saxitoxin
Biden Campaign Paying to Release Rioters in Minnesota so that Looting can continueWASHINGTON (Reuters) - Campaign staff for Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden are advertising their donations to a group that pays bail fees in Minneapolis after the city’s police jailed people looting stores and attacking bystanders.
President Donald Trump’s re-election campaign on Saturday said it was “disturbing” that Biden’s team “would financially support the mayhem that is hurting innocent people and destroying what good people spent their lives building,” in an email about the Reuters story that called for Biden to condemn the riots.
Minnesota could be critical in determining the winner of the Nov. 3 presidential election.
The Democratic candidate in the 2016 election, Hillary Clinton, narrowly won the state by a 1.5 percentage point margin. Trump hopes to win the state this year and held a large rally in Minneapolis in October.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-minn ... SKBN2360SZ
Gonna make an awesome 30 second TV spot in Minneapolis in October!
Re: Yet another racist killing by US police
Posted: Sun May 31, 2020 1:03 pm
by jimboston
That isn’t what I see.
I see people purposefully putting themselves in the way and preventing police from responding to an emergency.
I was taught that when a police vehicle is flashing lights and sirens that the smart and appropriate thing to do is step aside or pull over and let the police pass. I think it’s very likely the police are responding to some vandalism or looting and these otherwise peaceful protesters are preventing them from doing their job of preserving the peace and protecting property.
Re: Yet another racist killing by US police
Posted: Sun May 31, 2020 2:54 pm
by mrswdk
jimboston wrote:This isn’t what I see in this video. I see *speculation about a series of events that may or may not have happened offscreen*
Man’s a bigger day dreamer than John Lennon singing Imagine.
Also, jim ignored the post about Amnesty International. jim thinks Amnesty are a credible international voice (e.g. his citation of their statements
here), so no doubt he is taking their criticism of the US government and its heavy-handed response to the anti-racial oppression protests seriously.
But how does he square off the international condemnation of the US police’s overreaction, from rights groups whose voices he respects, with all his posts explaining away why the police response has been proportionate and the protestors are the ones who are really at fault?
Re: Yet another racist killing by US police
Posted: Sun May 31, 2020 3:50 pm
by jimboston
mrswdk wrote:Also, jim ignored the post about Amnesty International. jim thinks Amnesty are a credible international voice (e.g. his citation of their statements
here), so no doubt he is taking their criticism of the US government and its heavy-handed response to the anti-racial oppression protests seriously.
But how does he square off the international condemnation of the US police’s overreaction, from rights groups whose voices he respects, with all his posts explaining away why the police response has been proportionate and the protestors are the ones who are really at fault?
It wasn’t “Amnesty International” is was the UK branch of Amnesty International. I. doesn’t sound like these are equivalent.
That said...
You’re right I’m not disagreeing with their opinion, as I do respect their right to an opinion. I will say it’s very easy for them to condemn the police from thousands of miles away, while the police actually reacting to the violent rioters are outnumbered 100-to-1 and have to stand there while people yell in their faces. It’s funny you seem to pick-and-snooze when you agree with them.
I respect the manner in which the vast majority of the police are conducting themselves. Think about it... one asshole racist cop hundred of miles away does something... yes he’s supported by his buddies onsite but it’s still a small number. You’re a cop in Boston who’s never done anything bad to anyone... and you have to stand their silently while hundreds of people are screaming obscenities at you with their Covid ridden spittle shooting in your face. I think the police are (for the most part) showing great restraint. Perhaps Amnesty International can commend those police while they condemn the bad ones?
Re: Yet another racist killing by US police
Posted: Sun May 31, 2020 3:50 pm
by saxitoxin
mrswdk wrote:But how does he square off the international condemnation of the US police’s overreaction, from rights groups whose voices he respects
In general, we believe this causes an epistemological crisis in so-called "independent" voters that they, usually, internally resolve by settling on a side, usually the one that most closely mirrors their views on the specific issue, even if they are opposed to that side on most other issues. Amnesty denouncing the police is generally a net positive for Trump. The objective, therefore, needs to be to create a situation that would provoke Amnesty into making a statement knowing that statement will cause the aforementioned epistemological crises.
For instance, some protesters allege single police cars were intentionally abandoned in the trajectory of protest marches knowing that they would infuriate the crowd who would attack or damage them, creating scenes of anarchy that would excite and capture the attention of TV news, reframing the debate to be about perceived lawlessness of the Democrat base. Others have even alleged that they were lit on fire by members of a special trans-jurisdiction group of Fraternal Order of Police or agents of the National Resources Division in order to set-off a riot. Others have noted there were strategically placed stacks of bricks and rebar nears shops that had been left there the day before the riots.
https://twitter.com/jordansntpierre/sta ... 9000183808https://twitter.com/troubleverydana/sta ... 1461673985https://twitter.com/AdrianNormanDC/stat ... 5239439361https://twitter.com/Lee35609992/status/ ... 0151249920Of course these are just conspiracy theories, but they would be good tactics for Fellow Travelers to employ in Democrat-run states if protests don't morph into riots on their own, like we want them to. Voter behavior is mostly predictable and these riots will be worth at least 2-3 percentage points for the President on the November ballot. Biden is too old and senile to play 4D Chess. He's a simple amoeba who just reacts to whatever stimuli the Committee to Reelect the President creates. Let the pillaging continue!
Re: Yet another racist killing by US police
Posted: Sun May 31, 2020 4:43 pm
by Dukasaur
saxitoxin wrote:Autopsy released. According to the Failing New York Times, Floyd was drunk as a skunk and the malt liquor got him.
Potentially complicating the prosecution of Mr. Chauvin, preliminary results from an autopsy found that Mr. Floyd, 46, did not appear to have died from strangulation or asphyxiation. “Mr. Floyd had underlying health conditions including coronary artery disease and hypertensive heart disease,” prosecutors said, also listing “potential intoxicants.
It was a murder, plain and simple. If the victim had underlying health conditions that made him easier to murder, that doesn't change anything.
If I hold your head under water, and you have reduced lung capacity due to COPD, you may die a little faster. That doesn't mean you died of COPD. You were murdered.
Ditto for any drugs you may have done. Does not change the fact that it was murder.
Even if you had a terminal illness and were fifteen minutes away from a natural death. Robbing you of that fifteen minutes still constitutes murder.
Murder. Spin it any way you want, give him 20 imaginary diseases and an imaginary suitcase of drugs, it's still murder.
Re: Yet another racist killing by US police
Posted: Sun May 31, 2020 4:44 pm
by mrswdk
jimboston wrote:mrswdk wrote:Also, jim ignored the post about Amnesty International. jim thinks Amnesty are a credible international voice (e.g. his citation of their statements
here), so no doubt he is taking their criticism of the US government and its heavy-handed response to the anti-racial oppression protests seriously.
But how does he square off the international condemnation of the US police’s overreaction, from rights groups whose voices he respects, with all his posts explaining away why the police response has been proportionate and the protestors are the ones who are really at fault?
It wasn’t “Amnesty International” is was the UK branch of Amnesty International.
'It wasn't Amnesty International, it was merely a spokesperson for Amnesty International. And anyway that spokesperson is in the UK so what do they know?'
Oh wait, the
US office of Amnesty has released a statement condemning US police for all the same reasons.
You’re right I’m not disagreeing with their opinion
Glad to hear that you agree the US police response to the anti-racial oppression protests across the country has been unnecessarily militarized, is putting protesters in unacceptable danger and must be de-escalated immediately (the view that you have just stated you accept).
Re: Yet another racist killing by US police
Posted: Sun May 31, 2020 4:46 pm
by Dukasaur
Lest we forget.
mrswdk wrote:
Re: Yet another racist killing by US police
Posted: Sun May 31, 2020 5:06 pm
by saxitoxin
Dukasaur wrote:saxitoxin wrote:Autopsy released. According to the Failing New York Times, Floyd was drunk as a skunk and the malt liquor got him.
Potentially complicating the prosecution of Mr. Chauvin, preliminary results from an autopsy found that Mr. Floyd, 46, did not appear to have died from strangulation or asphyxiation. “Mr. Floyd had underlying health conditions including coronary artery disease and hypertensive heart disease,” prosecutors said, also listing “potential intoxicants.
It was a murder, plain and simple. If the victim had underlying health conditions that made him easier to murder, that doesn't change anything.
If I hold your head under water, and you have reduced lung capacity due to COPD, you may die a little faster. That doesn't mean you died of COPD. You were murdered.
Ditto for any drugs you may have done. Does not change the fact that it was murder.
Even if you had a terminal illness and were fifteen minutes away from a natural death. Robbing you of that fifteen minutes still constitutes murder.
Murder. Spin it any way you want, give him 20 imaginary diseases and an imaginary suitcase of drugs, it's still murder.
Uh, no.
If you pass someone on the street and sneeze, and that person has an autoimmune disorder and dies, you are not a murderer.
Someone undertaking a lawful act is not liable for unintended deaths resulting from that act. Police officers have a lawful authority to make arrests and have the further authority to use physical violence against persons resisting the authority of law to the maximum degree required to preserve the primacy of the state and its laws.
Re: Yet another racist killing by US police
Posted: Sun May 31, 2020 5:07 pm
by HitRed
This might be a good time to discuss police unions. Unlimited leagal help even in non-work related matters such as divorce. This is a massive advantage as they can draw out proceedings for years. Bleeding the other party dry monetarily and emotionality.
Even though he was fired by the city he will likely get unlimited legal help from the police union.
Re: Yet another racist killing by US police
Posted: Sun May 31, 2020 5:11 pm
by saxitoxin
Dukasaur wrote:Lest we forget.
mrswdk wrote:... represented by Tom Kelly, the same attorney who got officer Jeronimo Yanez acquitted.
Officer Yanez was born in Mexico and immigrated at an early age to the U.S. with his parents. It's fantastic the forces of law and order are color blind and united by a singular drive to preserve the rule of law and to either corral or euthanize feral humans. Bravo to Chauvin and Yanez!
Fact: There are more feral humans in North America than feral dogs (5 MM).
Re: Yet another racist killing by US police
Posted: Sun May 31, 2020 5:22 pm
by jimboston
mrswdk wrote:jimboston wrote:You’re right I’m not disagreeing with their opinion
Glad to hear that you agree... the view that you have just stated you accept.
“Not disagreeing” and “Accepting” are not necessarily equivalent.
Just because I choose to avoid arguing with an OPINION doesn’t mean I automatically agree with said opinion.
You can say “I love Okra” and I can just ignore it or say “I’m glad you like Okra.”. That doesn’t mean that I like Okra.
I think you need to continue working on your English comprehension skills.
Re: Yet another racist killing by US police
Posted: Sun May 31, 2020 5:36 pm
by mrswdk
jimboston wrote:mrswdk wrote:jimboston wrote:You’re right I’m not disagreeing with their opinion
Glad to hear that you agree... the view that you have just stated you accept.
“Not disagreeing” and “Accepting” are not necessarily equivalent.
1) If you're going to play semantics, you could at least
do it right.
2) Rather than do your usual 'dodge the point and play semantics instead', maybe you could answer this: do you agree with the statement that the US police response has been unnecessarily militarized, has put protesters in danger, and should be de-escalated (the Amnesty International position) or do you disagree with that statement?
Re: Yet another racist killing by US police
Posted: Sun May 31, 2020 5:42 pm
by saxitoxin
I trust Fraternal Order of Police lodges are already preparing photo books of the protesters. The real post-riot cleanup doesn't begin for a couple months.
Mysterious Deaths Leave Ferguson Activists ‘On Pins and Needles’Since the 2014 shooting, about six people connected to the protests following Brown’s death have died — some in violent, mysterious ways, the Associated Press reports.
https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/cu ... wn-809407/
Re: Yet another racist killing by US police
Posted: Sun May 31, 2020 7:34 pm
by Dukasaur
saxitoxin wrote:Dukasaur wrote:saxitoxin wrote:Autopsy released. According to the Failing New York Times, Floyd was drunk as a skunk and the malt liquor got him.
Potentially complicating the prosecution of Mr. Chauvin, preliminary results from an autopsy found that Mr. Floyd, 46, did not appear to have died from strangulation or asphyxiation. “Mr. Floyd had underlying health conditions including coronary artery disease and hypertensive heart disease,” prosecutors said, also listing “potential intoxicants.
It was a murder, plain and simple. If the victim had underlying health conditions that made him easier to murder, that doesn't change anything.
If I hold your head under water, and you have reduced lung capacity due to COPD, you may die a little faster. That doesn't mean you died of COPD. You were murdered.
Ditto for any drugs you may have done. Does not change the fact that it was murder.
Even if you had a terminal illness and were fifteen minutes away from a natural death. Robbing you of that fifteen minutes still constitutes murder.
Murder. Spin it any way you want, give him 20 imaginary diseases and an imaginary suitcase of drugs, it's still murder.
Uh, no.
If you pass someone on the street and sneeze, and that person has an autoimmune disorder and dies, you are not a murderer.
Sneezing would be unintentional. Kneeling on someone's throat is an intentional act that can reasonably be foreseen to cause death. It is murder.
Re: Yet another racist killing by US police
Posted: Sun May 31, 2020 7:41 pm
by saxitoxin
Dukasaur wrote:saxitoxin wrote:Dukasaur wrote:saxitoxin wrote:Autopsy released. According to the Failing New York Times, Floyd was drunk as a skunk and the malt liquor got him.
Potentially complicating the prosecution of Mr. Chauvin, preliminary results from an autopsy found that Mr. Floyd, 46, did not appear to have died from strangulation or asphyxiation. “Mr. Floyd had underlying health conditions including coronary artery disease and hypertensive heart disease,” prosecutors said, also listing “potential intoxicants.
It was a murder, plain and simple. If the victim had underlying health conditions that made him easier to murder, that doesn't change anything.
If I hold your head under water, and you have reduced lung capacity due to COPD, you may die a little faster. That doesn't mean you died of COPD. You were murdered.
Ditto for any drugs you may have done. Does not change the fact that it was murder.
Even if you had a terminal illness and were fifteen minutes away from a natural death. Robbing you of that fifteen minutes still constitutes murder.
Murder. Spin it any way you want, give him 20 imaginary diseases and an imaginary suitcase of drugs, it's still murder.
Uh, no.
If you pass someone on the street and sneeze, and that person has an autoimmune disorder and dies, you are not a murderer.
Sneezing would be unintentional. Kneeling on someone's throat is an intentional act that can reasonably be foreseen to cause death. It is murder.
Sneezing is lawful. Using physical force to execute an arrest is lawful.
Feral humans with preexisting medical conditions may be at risk living in civilization. Unfortunately that's just how it is. The world can be a brutal place for those unprepared to live in it.
Re: Yet another racist killing by US police
Posted: Sun May 31, 2020 7:59 pm
by Dukasaur
saxitoxin wrote:Dukasaur wrote:saxitoxin wrote:Dukasaur wrote:saxitoxin wrote:Autopsy released. According to the Failing New York Times, Floyd was drunk as a skunk and the malt liquor got him.
Potentially complicating the prosecution of Mr. Chauvin, preliminary results from an autopsy found that Mr. Floyd, 46, did not appear to have died from strangulation or asphyxiation. “Mr. Floyd had underlying health conditions including coronary artery disease and hypertensive heart disease,” prosecutors said, also listing “potential intoxicants.
It was a murder, plain and simple. If the victim had underlying health conditions that made him easier to murder, that doesn't change anything.
If I hold your head under water, and you have reduced lung capacity due to COPD, you may die a little faster. That doesn't mean you died of COPD. You were murdered.
Ditto for any drugs you may have done. Does not change the fact that it was murder.
Even if you had a terminal illness and were fifteen minutes away from a natural death. Robbing you of that fifteen minutes still constitutes murder.
Murder. Spin it any way you want, give him 20 imaginary diseases and an imaginary suitcase of drugs, it's still murder.
Uh, no.
If you pass someone on the street and sneeze, and that person has an autoimmune disorder and dies, you are not a murderer.
Sneezing would be unintentional. Kneeling on someone's throat is an intentional act that can reasonably be foreseen to cause death. It is murder.
Sneezing is lawful. Using physical force to execute an arrest is lawful.
Making an arrest is one thing. Killing someone after they've been arrested is murder.
Re: Yet another racist killing by US police
Posted: Sun May 31, 2020 8:01 pm
by Dukasaur
https://www.forbes.com/sites/lisettevoytko/2020/05/31/in-some-cities-police-officers-joined-protesters-marching-against-brutalityAs protests sparked by George Floyd’s death entered their chaotic fifth day, social media filled with images and video of police officers using batons, tear gas and rubber bullets to quell crowds—but some squads joined in with Saturday protesters to express their stance against police brutality, and to show solidarity with the anti-racism movement.
