Conquer Club

Well then my Occam's razor post stands. The New York Mets may tell their fans that they "Just Gotta Believe," but there is very little certainty or proof that there is any sort of potential winning to believe in.

GreecePwns wrote:Well then my Occam's razor post stands. The New York Mets may tell their fans that they "Just Gotta Believe," but there is very little certainty or proof that there is any sort of potential winning to believe in.

we astr fans dont even get that.. we get "Root root root"

I shit you not

natty dread wrote:Would you say santa claus is racist for not giving as much gifts to the african children as he gives to the western ones?

Ray Rider wrote:

pimpdave wrote:It's Good Friday tomorrow and it's got me thinking. Since Jesus had the power to raise himself from the dead, it's not really a sacrifice for him to die.

What do you guys think?

Let me get this straight: you're saying that someone who's "living the life" with not a care in the world, completely free from pain, with every wish fulfilled, the most powerful person in the universe with millions of angels doing his bidding; that person taking the time to become one of the humblest forms of his creation, carrying out good works (feeding the hungry, healing the sick, raising the dead) throughout his time on earth, accepting (for the sake of you and me) the unjust punishment of one of the worst, most painfully-prolonged executions conceivable at the time carried out by the very people he came to save; you're saying that action isn't a sacrifice??

Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person, though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die. But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners and therefore enemies of God, Christ died for us.
-from Romans 5:7-8

pimpdave wrote:Yeah but how do you know he didn't just numb himself to the pain. He's a god after all.

Either you take the Biblical account at face value and he did suffer a massive amount of torture and pain (watch The Passion of the Christ if you want to get a picture of it); or you choose not to believe it in which case the question is meaningless since you don't believe it happened anyway.

Who has believed our report?
And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?

Surely he has borne our griefs
and carried our sorrows;
yet we esteemed him stricken,
smitten by God, and afflicted.

But he was pierced for our transgressions;
he was crushed for our iniquities;
upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace,
and with his wounds we are healed.

All we like sheep have gone astray;
we have turned—every one—to his own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.

He was oppressed, and he was afflicted,
yet he opened not his mouth;
like a lamb that is led to the slaughter,
and like a sheep that before its shearers is silent,
so he opened not his mouth.

Therefore I will divide him a portion with the many,
and he shall divide the spoil with the strong,
because he poured out his soul to death
and was numbered with the transgressors;
yet he bore the sin of many,
and makes intercession for the transgressors.
-from Isaiah 53, written around 750 BC

you're very right here.

torture at a cross or stake is very painfull and one of the most painfull ways to die, note that for every breath you take you need to raise yourself up, and since the only way to do that is by putting more pressure on the feet and arms which have nails through them, you'll increase the pain from those nails by a lot, consider also that by doing this, you'll rub your back on the wood, while your back is allready bleeding from the whip he got earlier. it's also nearly impossable to just hold your breath, because your body will automaticly try to breath, so after your body is getting exhausted you will unconsciously start to try and breathe which will almost feel like a shock each breath. eventually you'll die from exhaustion and/or dehydratation. To speed up the process they sometimes break your legs to make it even more tiring and painful to breath, they did not do this to jesus, as it has been prophesied

john 19:32-36 wrote:Then came the soldiers, and brake the legs of the first, and of the other which was crucified with him.

33But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs:

34But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.

35And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe.

36For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken.

john9blue wrote:"into your hands i commit my spirit"

if he could raise himself from the dead, then why would he commit his spirit to anybody?

because jesus is not god, but the son of god, he laid his hands into those of god. It would be much clearer if you'd read the original scriptures who mention god by his name, instead of the translation where they call both jesus and god by titles. (the original scriptures mentoin the name of god as JHWH or JHVH which is often translated as either JAHWEH or Jehovah, the true pronounciation of the name is long lost however, yet the meaning of the name is still clear it's the causative of the verb be in the imperfect tense which means as much that he is the origin of everything (something like "i am, therefore other things are")

also, what i haven't seen mentoined before is that jesus was, like adam, a perfect creation, a perfect man without sin (until the point where adam brought sin in his life and through him to all his offspring) jesus would have been able to reproduce and create a lineage of children, however because there was no longer a perfect woman, he'd automaticly get yet another lineage of imperfect humans, instead, he chose to sacrifice not only himself, but also his potential to create offspring, and in a sense, everyone who believes in his sacrifice and takes action based on that belief, can become 'offspring' of jesus instead of adam. even though were are literary offspring from adam, jesus is willing to adopt us as his childs and eventually raise us to the point where we become perfect humans again, as his sacrifice has the potential of washing away our sin.

creeper has a point where he sais that god sacrificed his son, but it still ment that jesus (gods son) had to endure a lot, and it was also a sacrifice from his side. God would not prevent jesus from commanding millions of angels to kill off any treats. luckily, jesus was smarter and less selfish than that.

also the death of jesus is permanent in a sense that he's not allowed to bring his humanly body back to earth as a living being at least until 'the new world' (not sure if he can or will do it afterwards). his human body is as death as any other. he does live on as a king in the heavens now though, even though his kingdom not yet has control over the earth, but soon that day will come. how soon? noone knows, could be tomorrow, could be next year, could be in the coarse of the next 50 years, maybe even slightly longer, but most definitely not another century according to my current understanding of the prophecies.

jgordon1111 wrote:But he lost his faith,it was already qouted once but a refresher "my God why hast thou forsaken me".

this simply means that god took away his holy spirit from jesus which he used to guide jesus in difficult times and jesus commented on that, he was on his own for a short period of time before dying. all the time from his baptism to moments before his death, he had the holy spirit to help him. after his death, the holy spirit helped his diciples and apostles like you can read in acts. even on this day, the holy spirit helps the servants of god but it's not like we can perform 'magic tricks' like paul and jesus and such could, simply because that's not needed at this point anymore. the holy spirit only gives what is needed and nothing more.

natty dread wrote:Did Jesus really exist all that much?

asking if jesus exsisted is like asking julius ceasar exsisted, there's more historical evidence (and by this i don't mean the bible) of jesus then there is of nearly anyone else that lived before 500 AD. to ask if there's proof that jesus was really the son of god, one could argue, as even in the time that he lived, not everyone believed it.

Would you say Jesus is greedy for choosing a more profitable life in Heaven instead of staying on Earth and helping people directly?

the help he could give on earth was only temporarily, people he cured got ill again, people he raised from death, died again, and he could not possibly visit everyone even if he still lived today. in fact, the more people would live, the harder it'd become for him to help everyone, he wasn't even able to cure 1 nation, so how is he going to cure 6 billion people? while from his current position as a king in heaven, as soon as he gets the rulership over the world, he'd be able to do as he pleases and like we saw, he tends to like to help people out, so he'll do that on epic scale instead of on small scale.

chang50 wrote:

Night Strike wrote:

BigBallinStalin wrote:Would you say Jesus is greedy for choosing a more profitable life in Heaven instead of staying on Earth and helping people directly?

I'd say being a perfect person but dying and taking on the sins of everyone throughout history is quite giving.

Not to mention unbelievable.What could possibly motivate a perfect person?If you have needs,desires,wants,even emotions you are definitionally less than perfect,because you are lacking the things you want.

jesus had emotions

John 11:30-35 wrote:30Now Jesus was not yet come into the town, but was in that place where Martha met him.

31The Jews then which were with her in the house, and comforted her, when they saw Mary, that she rose up hastily and went out, followed her, saying, She goeth unto the grave to weep there.

32Then when Mary was come where Jesus was, and saw him, she fell down at his feet, saying unto him, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died.

33When Jesus therefore saw her weeping, and the Jews also weeping which came with her, he groaned in the spirit, and was troubled.

34And said, Where have ye laid him? They said unto him, Lord, come and see.

35Jesus wept.

BigBallinStalin wrote:

GreecePwns wrote:Muslims believe Jesus never died on the cross, nor is he a God. He was a prophet who the one God that isn't three Gods (someone please explain how three gods are one god what is this I don't even) took up to heaven before he died, and the God substituted Jesus with another person who looked just like him before he even got on the cross. If that makes any more sense.

Yeah, well, I don't like the Quran. I like the Bible more; therefore, I'm going to believe that the Three-Gods-In-One explanation is true. Never mind that I can't falsify either, it doesn't matter! I just like the Bible more. Been raised on it, other people do it, and it says so in the Bible; therefore, what I believe is true, which means that your claim must be false.

the bible never claims that god is 3-in-1. it clearly states that jesus is the son of god, and gods name is written as JHWH/JHVH and that god is different then jesus. jesus is created by god, and jesus and god created all of creation side-by-side, god is more powerful than jesus and is jesus superior.

matthew 26:36-39 wrote:36Then cometh Jesus with them unto a place called Gethsemane, and saith unto the disciples, Sit ye here, while I go and pray yonder.

37And he took with him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, and began to be sorrowful and very heavy.

38Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me.

39And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

jesus prayed and clearly states that he's willing to do the will of his father, not his own. if he was one and the same, wouldn't his will and that of the father not be the same?

luke 3:21-22 wrote:21 When all the people were being baptized, Jesus was baptized too. And as he was praying, heaven was opened 22 and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: “You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased.”

god was pleased with himself??

John 10:36 wrote:36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?

he never claimed to be god, only gods son.

john 14:28 wrote:28 “You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.

the father is greater, thus not equal, to jesus.

many more examples exsist but i think this is plenty of evidence that the bible does not claim jesus and the father are one.

zimmah wrote:

BigBallinStalin wrote:

GreecePwns wrote:Muslims believe Jesus never died on the cross, nor is he a God. He was a prophet who the one God that isn't three Gods (someone please explain how three gods are one god what is this I don't even) took up to heaven before he died, and the God substituted Jesus with another person who looked just like him before he even got on the cross. If that makes any more sense.

Yeah, well, I don't like the Quran. I like the Bible more; therefore, I'm going to believe that the Three-Gods-In-One explanation is true. Never mind that I can't falsify either, it doesn't matter! I just like the Bible more. Been raised on it, other people do it, and it says so in the Bible; therefore, what I believe is true, which means that your claim must be false.

the bible never claims that god is 3-in-1. it clearly states that jesus is the son of god, and gods name is written as JHWH/JHVH and that god is different then jesus. jesus is created by god, and jesus and god created all of creation side-by-side, god is more powerful than jesus and is jesus superior.

Then what do you think of what is Night Strike saying? He's saying Jesus was fully man AND fully God, which defies all sorts of everything. What is this trinity thing to you, then?

So God created,four perfect beings other than himself then? jesus,adam,eve, and the one known as morning star?

You seem to be missing Lilath,who was left out of the bible,because popular christianity at the time didnt want her added to the bible they were producing,yet she was in the texts that jesus himself taught from.

GreecePwns wrote:

zimmah wrote:

BigBallinStalin wrote:

GreecePwns wrote:Muslims believe Jesus never died on the cross, nor is he a God. He was a prophet who the one God that isn't three Gods (someone please explain how three gods are one god what is this I don't even) took up to heaven before he died, and the God substituted Jesus with another person who looked just like him before he even got on the cross. If that makes any more sense.

Yeah, well, I don't like the Quran. I like the Bible more; therefore, I'm going to believe that the Three-Gods-In-One explanation is true. Never mind that I can't falsify either, it doesn't matter! I just like the Bible more. Been raised on it, other people do it, and it says so in the Bible; therefore, what I believe is true, which means that your claim must be false.

the bible never claims that god is 3-in-1. it clearly states that jesus is the son of god, and gods name is written as JHWH/JHVH and that god is different then jesus. jesus is created by god, and jesus and god created all of creation side-by-side, god is more powerful than jesus and is jesus superior.

Then what do you think of what is Night Strike saying? He's saying Jesus was fully man AND fully God, which defies all sorts of everything. What is this trinity thing to you, then?

nonesense, the bible does not hint anywhere in the direction of a trinity, and it's most likely inspired by the tradition of for example the Egyptians who used to worship trinities, which was quite common around that time. (Horus, Osiris, Isis is probably the most well known trinity, but also: Amun, Mut and Khonsu, Ptah, Sekhmet and Nefertem, Khnum , Satet and Anuket, and the 3 forms of Ra, Kheper, Re-Horakhty Atum to name a few.) but also hindoism has triads (Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva) even in modern religions like wicca (which is more like modern witchcraft) they have a triple goddess. the romans ( Jupiter (father), Juno (wife), and Minerva) and greeks (zeus, poseidon, pluto/hades) germanic mythology (Odin, Vili and Ve). The list of trinities/triads goes on and on.

like i proofed with quotes from the bible, the bible suggest that Jesus was (and is) an individual, created by god (thus god existed before Jesus, and before time itself) and that god is more powerful than Jesus, and the holy spirit is the power of god, and not a person. so if i were to make a 'timeline' i'd say there was god (he just always was) then god created time, and some basic rules of the universe to allow for creation of Jesus. then he created Michael (note that Michael is the heavenly name of Jesus, it's Jesus in his angel form) and from that point on Jesus and God created the other angels, rules of the universe, the universe itself, the solar system, the earth, plants, animals and finally, mankind. This whole process likely took millions of years to complete, no specific times are given, and clearly the '6 days of creation' are symbolic. it defies all logic to conclude the 6 days are really 6 physical days, for throughout most of the process the concept of days didn't even exist (hello, no solar system? = no sun = no days). The holy spirit is something god probably always had and i don't really know how to explain it but it's just the power he uses to do basically everything, and although it's likely just some form of energy, it can appear as a person, as it did appear as a pigeon at Jesus baptism, but it certainly is not a person. (it also appeared as flames, but it's usually invisible)

as with a lot of so called christian things, they're often inspired by heathen traditions and myths, which were adapted by the church to lure more people towards the church. (christmass, easter, trinities, the cross, etc.) the bible calls the common churches 'the whore' for a good reason. all they want is money and fame, but the truth about god and the bible are not important to them, and in fact, they have attempted to hide the truth of the bible in several ways in the past, including attempts to destroy the bible and their owners, forbid translating of the bible into modern languages and attempts to chance the translations of the bible (for example removing the name of god)

jgordon1111 wrote:So God created,four perfect beings other than himself then? jesus,adam,eve, and the one known as morning star?

You seem to be missing Lilath,who was left out of the bible,because popular christianity at the time didnt want her added to the bible they were producing,yet she was in the texts that jesus himself taught from.

revelation 22:16 wrote:I, Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, [and] the bright and morning star.

did you mean this morning star? that actualy is jesus, he sais so himself. or did you mean something else?

also, could you clarify what you mean by lilith? everything i could find about lilith is that it's a mythological demon that has been refered to in the bible (isaiah 34:14, some translations translate it as owl, probably because the demon tends to appear as an owl in the myths) either way, lilith is most likely a demon and definitely not a perfect creation. did you mean something else? could you specify?

isaiah 34:14 wrote:The wild beasts of the desert shall also meet with the wild beasts of the island, and the satyr shall cry to his fellow; the screech owl (=lilith) also shall rest there, and find for herself a place of rest.

in this context is the only place i know where lilith is mentioned in the bible, and as there's also mention of satyrs, it suggests lilith is some kind of demonic creature as well.

god (alongside Jesus) also created an unknown amount (several 100.000's to millions to maybe even billions or more) of angels, each of them also perfect, however like mankind, with free will, 1/3rd of them actually chose the side of the devil and although they did not physically changed and probably did not lose much if any of their power, they are often referred to as demons, they're still angels though so demons are not different from angels in any way except that they chose to obey the devil or otherwise disobey god. much like there's no physical difference between theist and atheist.

note that Jesus is also referred to as gods only child and/or firstborn. this does not only point to the fact that Jesus is the only angel that ever was born as a human (even though some angels/demons did take on a physical form to mate with woman and created demonic offspring in the form of giants) it also refers to the fact that Jesus is the only creation that was created by god directly, without the interference of another being. (everything else was created 'through' Jesus basically. for this reason, Jesus is also referred to as gods master-worker.

also note that the demons have been banished to earth and the surroundings of earth since 1914. (the year Jesus took his heavenly throne and started ruling over the heavens, the earth however is still in control of the devil until the day of armagedon).

LOL no zimmah the morning star I was reffering to was lucifer who was created perfect,but fell.

Hmmm you seem to be reading only updated versions of the text's that have already been(edited) for modern reading and religon.

to find lilith go to some of the jewish text's older versions the ones jesus would have been teaching from. There was a woman before Eve according to those texts.

You have to dig deep Zimmah,those facts are not something modern christianity are fond of.

jgordon1111 wrote:LOL no zimmah the morning star I was reffering to was lucifer who was created perfect,but fell.

Hmmm you seem to be reading only updated versions of the text's that have already been(edited) for modern reading and religon.

to find lilith go to some of the jewish text's older versions the ones jesus would have been teaching from. There was a woman before Eve according to those texts.

You have to dig deep Zimmah,those facts are not something modern christianity are fond of.

i'm quoting the king james version as it's one of the most generally accepted translations, you can propose any other translation as well, even the kingdom interlinear which uses ancient greek and word-to-word english translation. i don't read greek nor hebrew, but if you have something like the kingdom interlinear for the hebrew texts i'd be willing to study them as well.

can you give me any examples of old texts that rever to lilith? and why it's so important to you?

and i guess you kinda answered your own question regarding the morning star, he was created as an angel, he had a pretty high position as well, but he because jealous and greedy and wanted to be worshipped, therefore he sinned and lied to adam and eve, eventually resulting in the current situation on earth.

not sure but I believe its in the torah

Or just go to the hebrew version tanakh for info on lilith.

In their version when god created adam he created him a partner lilith.

lilith refused to be subserviant to adam declaring she was his equal and refused him.

She left him,here is where the christian bible picks up,adam was put to sleep and one of his ribs removed to create eve,therefore as being part of him she was subserviant.

remember how in genisis it says both man and woman were created of the earth,it is correct but they are not talking about eve there.

a couple of pages further is why the story has 2 different tellings. Here it gives adam and eves names not previously,there is a reason for that you know.

So to finish liliths story she slept with demons and is the mother of legion. In those days there were giants on the face of the earth (goliath)

jgordon1111 wrote:not sure but I believe its in the torah

Or just go to the hebrew version tanakh for info on lilith.

In their version when god created adam he created him a partner lilith.

lilith refused to be subserviant to adam declaring she was his equal and refused him.

She left him,here is where the christian bible picks up,adam was put to sleep and one of his ribs removed to create eve,therefore as being part of him she was subserviant.

remember how in genisis it says both man and woman were created of the earth,it is correct but they are not talking about eve there.

a couple of pages further is why the story has 2 different tellings. Here it gives adam and eves names not previously,there is a reason for that you know.

So to finish liliths story she slept with demons and is the mother of legion. In those days there were giants on the face of the earth (goliath)

i believe goliath is from a way different time period (the time period of king david, even though he was not technically a king yet when he killed him), and the giants you refer to (demonic offspring) are called nephilim. they all died with the flood, and after that, god took away the ability of angels to take physical human forms and the ability to mate with humans. the demons that created the offspring however could turn away from the surface of the earth to avoid getting killed by the flood.

i'll see if i can find any evidence of the lilith story in accurate texts, but i doubt that the story about lilith is true, either way, you never know until you research it with an open mind.


ok well i have read the story and it pretty much burns down to this and i'll also state what's wrong with it right away:

by the myth, lilith as well as adam were both created from the earth, okay, so far so good. Then supposedly Lilith would not agree to be the one lying below, and nor did Adam want to lie below. (weird, as they're both created from the earth, and both created to be a match, and besides, it's a little thing to fight over i'd say). apperantly, the fight was so bad that Lilith either ran or flew away (since when do humans fly?) and Adam turned to god to tell him Lilith ran away, so god told Lilith that she had to return or otherwise 100 of her children would die every day (wait a minute, what children, they never had sex yet right, as they were fighting over sex in the first place and even if they did, wouldn't it be just as big a punishment for Adam as it was for Lilith?)

there's also very simular stories about Lilith in babylonian and sumerian folklore, note that many pagan traditions date back from those nations (as well as egyptian, roman, greek, assyrian, etc. but they are often all pretty simular as well, this can be explained because they all serve the same 'gods' (demons in fact) just by other names.)

unknown source wrote:Soon afterward the young son of the king took ill, Said Nebuchadnezzar, "Heal my son. If you don't, I will kill you." ben Sira immediately sat down and wrote an amulet with the Holy Name, and he inscribed on it the angels in charge of medicine by their names, forms and images, and by their wings, hands, and feet. Nebuchadnezzar looked at the amulet. "Who are these?"
"The angels who are in charge of medicine: Snvi, Snsvi, and Smnglof. After God created Adam, who was alone, He said, 'It is not good for man to be alone' (Gen. 2:18). He then created a woman for Adam, from the earth, as He had created Adam himself, and called her Lilith. Adam and Lilith began to fight. She said, 'I will not lie below,' and he said, 'I will not lie beneath you, but only on top. For you are fit only to be in the bottom position, while am to be in the superior one.' Lilith responded, 'We are equal to each other inasmuch as we were both created from the earth.' But they would not listen to one another. When Lilith saw this, she pronounced the Ineffable Name and flew away into the air. Adam stood in prayer before his Creator: 'Sovereign of the universe!' he said, 'the woman you gave me has run away.' At once, the Holy One, blessed be He, sent these three angels to bring her back.

"Said the Holy One to Adam, 'If she agrees to come back, fine. If not she must permit one hundred of her children to die every day.' The angels left God and pursued Lilith, whom they overtook in the midst of the sea, in the mighty waters wherein the Egyptians were destined to drown. They told her God's word, but she did not wish to return. The angels said, 'We shall drown you in the sea.'

"'Leave me!' she said. 'I was created only to cause sickness to infants. If the infant is male, I have dominion over him for eight days after his birth, and if female, for twenty days.'

"When the angels heard Lilith's words, they insisted she go back. But she swore to them by the name of the living and eternal God: 'Whenever I see you or your names or your forms in an amulet, I will have no power over that infant.' She also agreed to have one hundred of her children die every day. Accordingly, every day one hundred demons perish, and for the same reason, we write the angels' names on the amulets of young children. When Lilith sees their names, she remembers her oath, and the child recovers."

this sounds very satanic to me, because in this texts there is an avoidance of the name of god and even the common titles, (the devil does not like to use the name of god, i think he's not even able to speak the name of god) but the text is full of lies, twisted truth and contradictions. It claims lilith was made equal to Adam yet it's the mother of all demons and she can fly. if lilith was really equal to adam, she'd be a regular woman, not be able to fly, and not have anything to do with demons. also the amulets with names of so called angels on it are very demonic in nature. there's only 3 (correct me if wrong) names of angels mentioned in the bible, of which one is jesus in heavenly form, and the other is little known about, but he seems to be some sort of messenger. the tasks of those angels are not really known in detail either and making amulets out of angels drawings and names would definitly fall under idolatry. and really, why would god even give a woman that disobeys him so much power basically ascending her into a higher lifeform, if anything he'd just kill her or whatever. and besides, the names of those angels do not even sound anything like the 3 names of angels that are known (michael and gabriel and uriel) the -el ending refers to god, and the meaning of michael (= jesus) is "who is gods equal?" i can't remember the meaning of the name gabriel and uriel from the top of my head though. but Snvi, Snsvi, and Smnglof really don't sound like real angel names to me. (fun fact, there's kids clothing with those names imprinted on them in hebrew for sale on different webshops, get your demon shirts now, lol) (btw a common english translation of that name is Senoy, Sansenoy and Semangelof)

t's actually quite amazing how far those ancients myths extent, in my opinion that's just proof of higher powers. remember satan is trying to decieve us as appearing as an angel of light.
also a fun thing, lilith was supposed to tempt man that slept alone, so she ran away from adam just to sexually harrass him eh... what the f....?

pretty much how I read it in the tanakh, But you see my point on that story is it preceeds adam and eve,in hebrew tradition faith and religon.And I am almost positive its in the torah as well jewish texts that also preceed the bible. to those religons its fact on faith not myth.

You missed metatron the voice of god.

And the fact solomon had the ring with the names of the angles on it that gave him control over them.

So the amulet is not a precedent,nor is virgin birth as zoraster who story is about a thousand years older than jesus, along with egyptian orsis son of isis also well in advance of jesus.

jgordon1111 wrote:pretty much how I read it in the tanakh, But you see my point on that story is it preceeds adam and eve,in hebrew tradition faith and religon.And I am almost positive its in the torah as well jewish texts that also preceed the bible. to those religons its fact on faith not myth.

You missed metatron the voice of god.

And the fact solomon had the ring with the names of the angles on it that gave him control over them.

So the amulet is not a precedent,nor is virgin birth as zoraster who story is about a thousand years older than jesus, along with egyptian orsis son of isis also well in advance of jesus.

it's oral tradition from the rabbis, but the Babylonian and Sumerian folklore may very well be older then the bible itself indeed. Which should not be surprising, as those cultures are known for their idolatry and sorcery so they were very much in contact with demons, and since the demons witnessed the story of creation it would be easy to tell the story of creation with a twist. If you logically look at the story though, you will easily recognize that it has in no way to do with the divinely inspired scriptures.

I also don't doubt that solomon had such a ring, solomon did fall to idolatry later in his life, for he had many foreign woman and eventually they seduced him into worshiping their false gods, that may include using such amulets and other arcane objects. Note that in those days (basically any day before the medieval witch hunt period) sorcery was very common. After the witch hunt however it's much less common, especially in the western world (with that i mean europe, usa and most countries that have a lot of trading between those continents as they tend to mirror our way of life, like japan, china and india). however in the deep forests of africa for example there are still many witch doctors.

it is indeed quite funny that the story of isis and osiris and such are much older then the story of jesus, but here also counts that the devil could have known of gods plans way beforehand, a lot of those things have been prophesied long beforehand. However, i guess that litarely noone (except maybe a few sorcerers) actually still believe in any of the egyptian gods as deities. And a lot of sorcerers are actually aware they have demons, which they often even call demons.

like i said earlier, a lot of those deities from ancient cultures are very much alike, this is easily explained because the true ruler of this world is the devil, all kingdoms are under his control, and therefore he will make sure that it will be as hard as possible to serve the true god, so he creates all kinds of fake gods, some even with limited amounts of power (granted by the demons ofc, it's not the deities that suddenly get power obviously, how can a man-made object get superhuman power?). those traditions, fake deities, religions, beliefs etc. are quite persistent and even as empires fall and rise and fall and rise again, those traditions and gods survive, even though the gods usually get names that are more fitting to the culture that adapts them. For example Thor, Zeus, Jupiter, Taranis, Lei Gong, Susanoo, Tarhunt, Xolotl and Set are all gods of thunder, each from a different culture. and basically each deity has equivalents in each culture, and often also each mythical beast as well, like unicorns in the western world and kirins/qilin in the eastern world.

according to older scripture god gave solomon the ring.

My overall point is all religions kind of overlap from preceeding older religions. And all of them were faith based at the time. Compared to some christianity is still in baby age. But again faith is what sustains and upholds people,so no matter your religion keep going.