How Is It That Mormons Call Themselves Christians?

[Ray Rider]

Jesus was only horus because he talked too long for the Sermon on the Mount. \a throat lozenge soon cured it.

lol

[natty dread]

Actually, I think Jesus and Krishna were the same guy.

[Snorri1234]

In fact, thanks to the internet there is a whole wide and diverse group out there that think Jesus was actually Horus.

Yeah dude but that's all conspiracy bollocks.

[Woodruff]

Actually, I think Jesus and Krishna were the same guy.

Naw, Jesus was too Hari to be Krishna.

[Juan_Bottom]

In fact, thanks to the internet there is a whole wide and diverse group out there that think Jesus was actually Horus.

Yeah dude but that's all conspiracy bollocks.

Whether it is or not, there is still a large group of people that believe it. Like Bill Maher... He's sooo likable.

[PLAYER57832]

Whether it is or not, there is still a large group of people that believe it. Like Bill Maher... He's sooo likable.

Yes, some do believe it. And, if you sit down and talk to them, in some cases (not all!) you realize that they probably ARE talking about Jesus, believe what Jesus taught (sometimes with the exception of the cross, something not even). Even so, I am not going to say they are "Christian", but I will say it would not surprise me terribly to eventually fund out that God considered them so.

At any rate, the key is that you cannot simply look at labels or even what "church" they attend. AND, that is also part of why we are not to judge, but to leave that up to God.

[Snorri1234]

In fact, thanks to the internet there is a whole wide and diverse group out there that think Jesus was actually Horus.

Yeah dude but that's all conspiracy bollocks.

Whether it is or not, there is still a large group of people that believe it. Like Bill Maher... He's sooo likable.

Bill Maher is a fucking conspiracy-nut.


He denies germ-theory. He says he doesn't but man from where I'm sitting he sure seems to do.

[Juan_Bottom]

Yes, some do believe it. And, if you sit down and talk to them, in some cases (not all!) you realize that they probably ARE talking about Jesus, believe what Jesus taught (sometimes with the exception of the cross, something not even).

I didn't say that they were following Horus, I said that they think the Story of Jesus is a rip-off of the earlier story of Horus.

Bill Maher is a fucking conspiracy-nut.

My point wasn't about who is crazy, just that lots of people don't think Jesus ever lived. Including Bill Maher.

I mean, do you believe that Jesus lived based on your research?

[Snorri1234]

My point wasn't about who is crazy, just that lots of people don't think Jesus ever lived. Including Bill Maher.

I mean, do you believe that Jesus lived based on your research?

Which Jesus?

[PLAYER57832]

Yes, some do believe it. And, if you sit down and talk to them, in some cases (not all!) you realize that they probably ARE talking about Jesus, believe what Jesus taught (sometimes with the exception of the cross, something not even).

I didn't say that they were following Horus, I said that they think the Story of Jesus is a rip-off of the earlier story of Horus.

The distinction is debateable, but it is truly irrelevant to me (might look into it later, but just not now). I only mentioned it because it gets at what I said earlier, that there are some people who might be truly worshipping Christ, but just "feel he has a different name". This is mostly something missionaries occasionally encounter in some of the few "unknown" cultures. (the missionaries to whom I refer will spend 2-3 years with a culture, learning it, before even beginning to speak of God or anything like that).

[Neoteny]

Bill Mahar gets the official stamp of Neoteny disapproval. He's almost as loony as Phatscotty.

[Snorri1234]

Yes, some do believe it. And, if you sit down and talk to them, in some cases (not all!) you realize that they probably ARE talking about Jesus, believe what Jesus taught (sometimes with the exception of the cross, something not even).

I didn't say that they were following Horus, I said that they think the Story of Jesus is a rip-off of the earlier story of Horus.

The distinction is debateable, but it is truly irrelevant to me (might look into it later, but just not now). I only mentioned it because it gets at what I said earlier, that there are some people who might be truly worshipping Christ, but just "feel he has a different name". This is mostly something missionaries occasionally encounter in some of the few "unknown" cultures. (the missionaries to whom I refer will spend 2-3 years with a culture, learning it, before even beginning to speak of God or anything like that).

Lure them into a false sense of security and then spring the trap you mean?

[Juan_Bottom]

Yeah that is pretty evil sounding. Gain their trust so that you can destroy their culture and instill your own.

[PLAYER57832]

Yeah that is pretty evil sounding. Gain their trust so that you can destroy their culture and instill your own.

In this case, no. I realize it is still controversial, but the point is to NOT destroy their culture, to understand it... and usually people already have the concepts. Nowadays, they don't even try to do things like translate a Bible until they have people who are native to the culture who want to do it.

At some point, Christianity is Christianity and it does oppose other beliefs. However, it is a far cry from the "conversions by the sword" or "conversion by stealing children" or even talking to strangers without context.

Also, I see a big difference from dissuading people (over time) from cannibalism (New Guinea, 1990's), killing all girl children (Yanamato, 1980's), etc and telling people that they have to wear wool in 100 degree weather because that's what "Christian modesty" dictates. Not all things in all cultures need to be preserved. Still, you can do away with negatives and keep some of the more positive aspects. But it takes real knowledge of a culture to truly distinguish...and that is the key. Also, the choices should come from the people, not outsiders saying "this is how you have to do it", but outsiders saying "this is what I think... how does it fit with your view?"

Even so, I am not in any way suggesting that all missionaries act this way. And, even acting fully that way in good faith, people make mistakes. So, yes, some people will just plain object.

[pimpdave]

By the way demonfork, this wasn't a hijacked thread. Thanks for lying about that, the way you're going to lie about your false religion.

[pimpdave]

Well, your royal majesty demonfork, answer away.

Wait, demonfork, explain this then:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFZ1jVO3-OE

Why do you hate black people? Why are you a racist?

Why did Mormons kidnap and rape teenage girls and then lie about it? Why did they murder anyone who got in the way of their deviant sexual practices? How is that a more accurate teaching of "love thy neighbor"?

Why did Joseph Smith admit that his peepstoning was a fraud in a NY court if it was true? Christian apostles were willing to be executed for their beliefs, but Smith wasn't even willing to pay a fine and do a short stint in county. How do you explain that?

Why has your church hijacked the Boy Scouts of America and are using it to force Mormon ideas down the throats of children who really just want to learn how to make a fire and tie knots?

How is the Book of Mormon, which was revealed to only one guy who lied about the whole thing and was barely literate, more likely to be the accurate word of God than the Bible, which is compiled from many different authors?

How is your cult any different from others, like Scientology?

And if your only answer is, all that stuff is lies, then you're not answering the questions.

[Phatscotty]

I just don't understand.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFZ1jVO3-OE

I think it has something to do with Christ

[2dimes]

I liked the part where I pretended Johnny contradicted himself, made a failed mock post about it, then there were some people defending him from me and Ray Rider accused me of missreading the post.

[demonfork]

Well, your royal majesty demonfork, answer away.

Wait, demonfork, explain this then:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFZ1jVO3-OE

Why do you hate black people? Why are you a racist?

You are building a straw-man argument here Mr. Pimp. You provide a link to an anti-Mormon video that is specifically designed to deceive others into believing that Mormonism is something that it's not and then you ask me why I believe the false representations of the anti-Mormon video...pretty weak dude.

Why did Mormons kidnap and rape teenage girls and then lie about it? I really couldn't answer that I have no idea what these Mormons may or may not have been thinking when they perpetrated this alleged crime, I could only offer my best theory which would be A. They were horny deviants and they lied about it because they didn't want to go to jail Why did they murder anyone who got in the way of their deviant sexual practices? Again, I don't know, were these deviant sexual practices illegal? If so, maybe they murdered them because they were afraid of getting caught. How is that a more accurate teaching of "love thy neighbor"? I'm not aware that kidnapping and murdering is part of the LDS lesson manual, Ive certainly never been taught that nor have I myself ever taught that or read that in any lesson manuals but if it is taught and is part of the gospel then I would agree that it goes against most of the commandments.



Why did Joseph Smith admit that his peepstoning was a fraud in a NY court if it was true? Christian apostles were willing to be executed for their beliefs, but Smith wasn't even willing to pay a fine and do a short stint in county. How do you explain that?

Joseph Smith was convicted in a NY court of "glass-looking" which related to his business of money-digging or treasure seeking. Clients would hire him to help them find buried treasure or other buried riches. I'm not aware that he admitted in court to defrauding his clients but if he did I couldn't answer the reason why he did, maybe it was a plea deal, maybe it was because of the advice of his attorney, again IDK. The conviction had nothing to do with anything that he did as a Profit of God for the Church as you are trying to make it seem like it did.

Why has your church hijacked the Boy Scouts of America and are using it to force Mormon ideas down the throats of children who really just want to learn how to make a fire and tie knots? IDK, why did the boys need to join an LDS troop in the first place as the Boy Scout program within the LDS Church is pretty integral with Church activities and lifestyles. If certain parents or boys don't like the LDS influence within the troop are they not certainly free to join a non LDS troop?

How is the Book of Mormon, which was revealed to only one guy who lied about the whole thing and was barely literate, more likely to be the accurate word of God than the Bible, which is compiled from many different authors? Obviously if he lied about the whole thing then it most likely wouldn't be more accurate than the Bible but if he didn't lie about it, it would be more accurate because the bible is translated from copies of copies of copies (no original manuscript exists) whereas Joseph Smith translated the Book of Mormon from the original text with the aid of God

How is your cult any different from others, like Scientology? One difference between Mormonism and Scientology is that Mormons don't believe in Lord Xenu.

And if your only answer is, all that stuff is lies, then you're not answering the questions.

[pimpdave]

Well, your royal majesty demonfork, answer away.

Wait, demonfork, explain this then:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFZ1jVO3-OE

Why do you hate black people? Why are you a racist?

You are building a straw-man argument here Mr. Pimp. You provide a link to an anti-Mormon video that is specifically designed to deceive others into believing that Mormonism is something that it's not and then you ask me why I believe the false representations of the anti-Mormon video...pretty weak dude.

Why did Mormons kidnap and rape teenage girls and then lie about it? I really couldn't answer that I have no idea what these Mormons may or may not have been thinking when they perpetrated this alleged crime, I could only offer my best theory which would be A. They were horny deviants and they lied about it because they didn't want to go to jail Why did they murder anyone who got in the way of their deviant sexual practices? Again, I don't know, were these deviant sexual practices illegal? If so, maybe they murdered them because they were afraid of getting caught. How is that a more accurate teaching of "love thy neighbor"? I'm not aware that kidnapping and murdering is part of the LDS lesson manual, Ive certainly never been taught that nor have I myself ever taught that or read that in any lesson manuals but if it is taught and is part of the gospel then I would agree that it goes against most of the commandments.



Why did Joseph Smith admit that his peepstoning was a fraud in a NY court if it was true? Christian apostles were willing to be executed for their beliefs, but Smith wasn't even willing to pay a fine and do a short stint in county. How do you explain that?

Joseph Smith was convicted in a NY court of "glass-looking" which related to his business of money-digging or treasure seeking. Clients would hire him to help them find buried treasure or other buried riches. I'm not aware that he admitted in court to defrauding his clients but if he did I couldn't answer the reason why he did, maybe it was a plea deal, maybe it was because the advice of his attorney, again IDK. The conviction had nothing to do with anything that he did as a Profit of God for the Church as you are trying to make it seem like it did.

Why has your church hijacked the Boy Scouts of America and are using it to force Mormon ideas down the throats of children who really just want to learn how to make a fire and tie knots? IDK, why did the boys need to join an LDS troop in the first place as the Boy Scout program within the LDS Church is pretty integral with Church activities and lifestyles. If certain parents or boys don't like the LDS influence within the troop are they not certainly free to join a non LDS troop?

How is the Book of Mormon, which was revealed to only one guy who lied about the whole thing and was barely literate, more likely to be the accurate word of God than the Bible, which is compiled from many different authors? Obviously if he lied about the whole thing then it most likely wouldn't be more accurate than the Bible but if he didn't lie about it, it would be more accurate because the bible is translated from copies of copies of copies (no original manuscript exists) whereas Joseph Smith translated the Book of Mormon from the original text with the aid of God

How is your cult any different from others, like Scientology? One difference between Mormonism and Scientology is that Mormons don't believe in Lord Xenu.

And if your only answer is, all that stuff is lies, then you're not answering the questions.

Just quoting this to preserve demonfork's freudian slip of referring to Joseph Smith as a Profit for his fraudulent cult. I'll probably reply tomorrow.

[pimpdave]

Why did Joseph Smith get rid of dissenters, when Jesus continued to accept and love Thomas, who doubted his resurrection?

So any Christian church that performs excommunications can't be considered Christian? Are Catholics Christians?

I just noticed this. I wasn't talking about the modern day church, but the infallible originator of the religion. You dodged and twisted there.

Answer the question: why was it acceptable for Joseph Smith to execute dissenters when Jesus wouldn't even kick them out of the club?

[Snorri1234]

Why did Joseph Smith get rid of dissenters, when Jesus continued to accept and love Thomas, who doubted his resurrection?

So any Christian church that performs excommunications can't be considered Christian? Are Catholics Christians?

I just noticed this. I wasn't talking about the modern day church, but the infallible originator of the religion. You dodged and twisted there.

Answer the question: why was it acceptable for Joseph Smith to execute dissenters when Jesus wouldn't even kick them out of the club?

More importantly, hell yes excommunication is incredibly unchristian if you base christianity on Jesussss sayings.

Instead of "go forth and be excellent to eachother" it becomes "YES THEY DESERVED TO DIE AND I HOPE THEY BURN IN HELL!"



given a choice of messiah's I'll always go with Samuel L. Motherfuckin Jackson over Keanu Reeves btw.

[PLAYER57832]

[quote="demonfork"]

Why has your church hijacked the Boy Scouts of America and are using it to force Mormon ideas down the throats of children who really just want to learn how to make a fire and tie knots? IDK, why did the boys need to join an LDS troop in the first place as the Boy Scout program within the LDS Church is pretty integral with Church activities and lifestyles. If certain parents or boys don't like the LDS influence within the troop are they not certainly free to join a non LDS troop?
OK, in this one, you are just wrong.

The bottom line is that the Boy Scouts of America is to be open to boys of all religion. For an LDS church to offer programs but only honor LDS awards, require LDS participation or make other church-specific demands is wrong. Just because LDS finds it convenient to meld its religious programs into the Boy scouts for a variety of reasons doesn't give them the right to decide it is a strictly LDS organization. As for why they don't just join another troop... pretty hard when the only one around claims LDS sponsorship. Further, all other church-sponsored groups practice non-discrimination .

[demonfork]

Why has your church hijacked the Boy Scouts of America and are using it to force Mormon ideas down the throats of children who really just want to learn how to make a fire and tie knots? IDK, why did the boys need to join an LDS troop in the first place as the Boy Scout program within the LDS Church is pretty integral with Church activities and lifestyles. If certain parents or boys don't like the LDS influence within the troop are they not certainly free to join a non LDS troop?
OK, in this one, you are just wrong.

The bottom line is that the Boy Scouts of America is to be open to boys of all religion. For an LDS church to offer programs but only honor LDS awards, require LDS participation or make other church-specific demands is wrong. Just because LDS finds it convenient to meld its religious programs into the Boy scouts for a variety of reasons doesn't give them the right to decide it is a strictly LDS organization. As for why they don't just join another troop... pretty hard when the only one around claims LDS sponsorship. Further, all other church-sponsored groups practice non-discrimination .

Player, I don't specifically know what situation that you are referring to where this happened or the details about it. I'm not even sure what "only honoring LDS awards" means or how that would apply in the context of Boy Scout awards/merit badges etc. I am also not sure under what circumstance that the church would require LDS participation in order to advance in the Boy Scout program.

The only thing that I can think of is that very often there are Church activities, that are not Boy Scout activities, that a church member that also happens to be a Boy Scout would could find opportunities to earn merit badges or work towards their next rank. If a non LDS member of the troop wanted to go along on these occasions he would be expected to participate in the planned activities of the particular event or outing.

[PLAYER57832]

Why has your church hijacked the Boy Scouts of America and are using it to force Mormon ideas down the throats of children who really just want to learn how to make a fire and tie knots? IDK, why did the boys need to join an LDS troop in the first place as the Boy Scout program within the LDS Church is pretty integral with Church activities and lifestyles. If certain parents or boys don't like the LDS influence within the troop are they not certainly free to join a non LDS troop?
OK, in this one, you are just wrong.

The bottom line is that the Boy Scouts of America is to be open to boys of all religion. For an LDS church to offer programs but only honor LDS awards, require LDS participation or make other church-specific demands is wrong. Just because LDS finds it convenient to meld its religious programs into the Boy scouts for a variety of reasons doesn't give them the right to decide it is a strictly LDS organization. As for why they don't just join another troop... pretty hard when the only one around claims LDS sponsorship. Further, all other church-sponsored groups practice non-discrimination .

Player, I don't specifically know what situation that you are referring to where this happened or the details about it. I'm not even sure what "only honoring LDS awards" means or how that would apply in the context of Boy Scout awards/merit badges etc. I am also not sure under what circumstance that the church would require LDS participation in order to advance in the Boy Scout program.

The only thing that I can think of is that very often there are Church activities, that are not Boy Scout activities, that a church member that also happens to be a Boy Scout would could find opportunities to earn merit badges or work towards their next rank. If a non LDS member of the troop wanted to go along on these occasions he would be expected to participate in the planned activities of the particular event or outing.

OK, the history here is that the LDS church did, for years use the boy scouts/cub scouts as their religious youth group. There were a lot of reasons behind this.

At any rate, because of this, they don't just sponsor some packs and troops, they utterly control them. The Bishop might be the one who picks the leader and based on religious criteria as much as anything else. Worse, they don't always make it known that this is the case or even that there might be other dens/troops around (if there are, sometimes there are not). In my community, the den activities focused around getting the boys their LDS religious faith emblem. Boys of other religions were not allowed to work on their emblems, only LDS. Beyond that there was definite pressure put on the boys to be LDS. The line between church activities and scout activities was often blurred to the point that boys might not be able to go on a scout picnic, because it was technically a church picnic, too, etc.

At any rate, I tried to google because I know it has been an issue. All I found were a couple of sites for LDS scout leaders to use and information about recent rulings on homosexual discrimination and the way the LDS and Roman Catholic churches fit into that.