Spaceness Map(v0.9 BETA, page 15) [vacation]

[oaktown]

I'm not saying it's a bad thing - it's a good looking map, and I imagine it will play alright once when finished. I'm just disappointed in the process that this map has gone through in terms of gameplay, as I think the point of the map was somewhat vague to begin with, and it remains somewhat vague.

Since day one this map has seen 13 full pages of posts in over two months... that's what, 200ish posts? 67 of those posts have been by Bloknayrb, and 11 y ninjastar, whcih means only 120ish posts bysomebody other than the mapmakers in two months. That suggests that there is very little interest in this map, whcih in itself is not reason enough to keep a map from quenching. But in looking back through the thread the lion's share of the concerns have been around graphics - make the circles a bit lighter, tweak the colors, move something three pixels to the left, etc. There have been remarkably few comments about game play and user friendliness, and the concerns I have read have been ignored.

I'm looking at this map as would a new player - without following the entire history of the map's production. Here's what I think may be play/user friendliness issues:
• why can't the rings attack the planet they orbit? or can they?
• why is there a one army penalty for holding halo and its rings?
• is the +5 for each ness, or for holding all of them?
• at least two people have agreed that there may be confusion about the targets - why brush this off?
• the bombardment routes are all the way across the board - it takes a while to figure out which terit hits which, and the target behind shinzon was really hard to pick out. Even when you find them there is no logic behind them... entirely random?
• i just now figured out why the borders are dotted on part of halo
• what does Ness3 attack? The ring it touches? Frazz? The entire planet?
• on the map the things are called Ness1, Ness2, yet in the legend they are called Shapenesses.

Graphically the map is pretty tight, though the arrows are really bad - the arrow head sides don't even match on each arrow - and the buckles need a redo.

Have you considered adding a couple of lines of text to put people in the mindset of this world? You know, "A long time ago in a galaxy far far away" sort of thing?

[pebble]

nice map...but the things i noticed were...

it's a little hard to see straight away that the sattalites can attack the planets. maybe make the arrows more prominent?

it 's a little hard to see the target thingies ( ) on the planets + the target thingies could be misinterpreted since they're all red. What if you made color pairs of them?

sorry if you've already adressed some of these...

[mibi]

What this map is missing is hard to qualify. But to me, it lacks a general sense of purpose, mission, and context. Even the title employs some sort of grammatical vagueness.

It's like someone created a map of a place no one knew or cared about, and then tried to will it into existence based on the quality of its graphics alone, which are decent yet murky at best.

[bloknayrb]

Well oaktown's complaints I can deal with (and by the way, most of your complains don't actually exist if you just take time to examine the map), but if you guys really don't like this idea at all, I'm not going to defend it. Although I might point out the fact that the poll indicated that more people were interested than not, by a significant percentage.

[Coleman]

Oaktown usually knows what's up pretty well, I'd say try to implement everything he says.

[Ninjastar13]

OK, Im gonna answer Oaktowns Concerns:
1. The rings can attack from satt to eef, hence the line being there.
2.We will change the wording of the halo rings thing b/c its not a negative penalty, this will be adressed immediately.
3. Its +5 for all of them. If you have a suggesestion as to how to better word that in the legend were are all ears.
4.Im brushing off the target thing b/c two ppl said that other ppl might be confused not that they would be, so its not indicative of any kind of general population at conquerclub. I genuinely feel that noone is going to be confused...Noone came forward and said they would be, only that other people might be.
5. The bombardments arent random, they are set so the they bombard a tert on the other side of the map, also the target symbols that are on the planets themselves are there to show they are the targets and thats why they are more trnslucent.
6. as for the borders being dotted under the rings, if you can think of a better way to show the border is under the ring and not part of it, we would like to know..
7. As for ness 3.... there are arrows pointing directly to what it attacks like every other ness.
8. Ness is a part of shapNESS, ergo its easier to fit on themap.
9.The fact that we have so many posts on our thread, i think shows that we respond promptly to a comment.
10. We re gonna replace the arrow of concern.
11. as for the story, do the majority of ppl actually care about the story to immerse them in the map or do they just want good strategic gameplay? if its genuinely the former, well put something in there.

To Pebble: The target cant be misinterpreted in terms of which goes where because there are words in them that specify where they go.

Im sorry if this cme off as a little ticked, i dont want to offend anybody all coments were actually the way we feel. I really want to say again that i dont want to come off sounding like an angry map creator, when really im not an angry map creator, im a happy map creator.

VIVA CONQUERCLUB

[oaktown]

It's all good ninja... and just as you don't want to sound angry, I don't want to sound like a hater. I really like the look of this map, I just feel that some play issues have been overlooked in this thread.

Thanks for addressing my concerns, above... I'll follow up on a few:

1. The rings can attack from satt to eef, hence the line being there.

That route makes sense, but keep in mind that Urnn touches Fraazz, Mast, and Eef. I thought that since they touched they could hit each other.

3. Its +5 for all of them. If you have a suggesestion as to how to better word that in the legend were are all ears.

My trouble stems from the fact that grammatically the "+5" refers to nesses, plural, while "Can attack each other" refers to each Shapeness singularly. I would drop "The" and write:
Shapenesses
(image) +5
Each Shapeness can attack each other.

6. as for the borders being dotted under the rings, if you can think of a better way to show the border is under the ring and not part of it, we would like to know..

Right, no easy answer... I think I'd rather see it cloudy/faded than dotted, but maybe somebody else should weigh in on thi.

7. As for ness 3.... there are arrows pointing directly to what it attacks like every other ness.

I guess my trouble is that some attack lines point to the territory name, some point to the army circles (Satt), and still others point to the territory itself. Ness2 to Mu is clear, while Mess2 to Brazz or Ness3 to Frazz is less clear. Likewise, some arrows start at a Ness (Ness3) while others start at the name (Ness2). Consistency is nice when achievable.

8. Ness is a part of shapNESS, ergo its easier to fit on themap.

I concede that players will figure this out, but how about 'Ness?

10. We re gonna replace the arrow of concern.

Also check Ness2 to Brazz, Ness4 to Xyz, Ness5 to Kraz, the Buckle to Ness0... actually just about all of them. Some have points, some are stubby (Omega).

As for the story, do the majority of ppl actually care about the story to immerse them in the map or do they just want good strategic gameplay? if its genuinely the former, well put something in there.

of course this isn't necessary, but why not have a little fun with it? You've created this world - why not give it a backstory, a la Age of Realms.

And again... lighting on the Buckles? You've sone such a nice job with lighting and graphics everywhere else, you should bring the little things up to par with the planets.

[Ninjastar13]

Roger Wilco Oaktown,
Your points are valid, well take care of it......or bloknayrb will since im just the programmer

[a-person1192]

5. The bombardments arent random, they are set so the they bombard a tert on the other side of the map, also the target symbols that are on the planets themselves are there to show they are the targets and thats why they are more trnslucent.

is it possible to make them a little less translucent because they are hard to see if you don't stare at the map.

[bloknayrb]

5. The bombardments arent random, they are set so the they bombard a tert on the other side of the map, also the target symbols that are on the planets themselves are there to show they are the targets and thats why they are more trnslucent.

is it possible to make them a little less translucent because they are hard to see if you don't stare at the map.

Actually, he misstated that. The target symbols on the planet territories themselves is just a slight aid so that once you see that a 'Ness is bombardable from that territory, it is slightly easier to locate at a glance.

[mibi]

I think the title needs to be changed to something that will put this map in context.

[bloknayrb]

Sigh... you're right. I'll be updating within the next few days with all of the clarifications and name change and the like.

[a-person1192]

5. The bombardments arent random, they are set so the they bombard a tert on the other side of the map, also the target symbols that are on the planets themselves are there to show they are the targets and thats why they are more trnslucent.

is it possible to make them a little less translucent because they are hard to see if you don't stare at the map.

Actually, he misstated that. The target symbols on the planet territories themselves is just a slight aid so that once you see that a 'Ness is bombardable from that territory, it is slightly easier to locate at a glance.

the Bobardments on the planets are still hard to see without staring at map for a while.

I don't know if this has been addressed but the dark side of Praetos fades into space and i can not see the end of the planet (so to speak)

[Ninjastar13]

I think that might be b/c the brightness level on your monitor isnt epic enough........ just turn the brightness up and it should look planettastic.

[bloknayrb]

I've addressed as many concerns as I was able to...
As for issues with the name and story... I've hit a wall, so I'm asking for help on this one. Anyone with any good ideas?

[Ninjastar13]

........Im also out of ideas, oh oh me too, im also thinking about it........

[Ninjastar13]

........Im also out of ideas, oh oh me too, im also thinking about it........

[mibi]

are the planets and such made up?

[oaktown]

arrows look much better, as does the border obscured by the rings. It would be cool if where the army circle dips under the rings it was obscured in the same way.

It's unfortunate that "corresponding" has to be hyphenated... anybody have a suggestion for that? And to solve the target confusion, what if a green target was visible behind where it says "corresponding territory?"

Errr, wait, why are the bombard targets missing from the new large map, but still in the small image?

I don't think you need to go overboard with the back story... a simple line of info will do. What do you see happening in this image? What's your vision? Spell it out and maybe we can boil it down for you.

[Blitzaholic]

nice work, looks much better

[volfan]

We already have Space and Solar System. Do we really need "Spaceness"?

[bloknayrb]

We already have Space and Solar System. Do we really need "Spaceness"?

We have a lot of real-world maps... maybe we don;t need any of those either?

[a-person1192]

is this going to be updated again?

[bloknayrb]

is this going to be updated again?

Yes, its just finals time, I haven't had a chance for an update yet, sorry to anyone who has been waiting.

[rebelman]

Are all locations on this map fictional - this is important if anyone is going to suggest a new name / back story.

giving this map a backstory would be simple you actually have huge scope - several possble ones leap to mind when i see this map.