No Points For New Recruit Deadbeats

maniacmath17 · Post by **maniacmath17** » Thu Aug 10, 2006 4:37 am

I'm not sure what the exact numbers are on this, but from my experience, a majority of new recruits that join public games end up deadbeating. A lot of them never come back to the site, so they arent really being penalized and the only result of taking away their points is that the winner gets points he/she didn't really earn.

Is it possible to not award points for beating new recruits that deadbeat? I agree with the new rule since we can't have experienced players deadbeating on purpose if they start off with a bad position. But I've never heard of a new recruit that cared enough about their 1000 points to trying something like that.

priority: 5

gavin_sidhu · Post by **gavin_sidhu** » Thu Aug 10, 2006 5:39 am

That actually sounds like a good idea, it deals with all problems.

HighBorn · Post by **HighBorn** » Thu Aug 10, 2006 5:40 am

that is a great idea manic.. dont know how hard the programing would be though

lackattack · Post by **lackattack** » Thu Aug 10, 2006 6:46 am

Yes, good idea! Put it on the to-do list!

Phobia · Post by **Phobia** » Thu Aug 10, 2006 6:50 am

hmm i agree, i like the idea

AK_iceman · Post by **AK_iceman** » Thu Aug 10, 2006 7:03 am

Its the best of both worlds! Sort of like a black and white cookie... :lol:

AndyDufresne · Post by **AndyDufresne** » Thu Aug 10, 2006 1:48 pm

Added to the list! It's good to see some new ideas out there...instead of rehashing the old!

--Andy

Pedronicus · Post by **Pedronicus** » Thu Aug 10, 2006 1:51 pm

I agree

Fireside Poet · Post by **Fireside Poet** » Thu Aug 10, 2006 2:17 pm

I'll rehash what maniac said ... good idea. Though that is the only means some people get points. *koff* :shock:

Kahn · Post by **Kahn** » Mon Aug 28, 2006 7:39 pm

as far as deadbeats go in a team game I think that they should have to pay the total team cost in points. Also any points that the team may win should be split up with the remaining members. None to the deadbeat they just interupt the game they need stiff fines for so doing. This should apply to us all.

Peace through strength

kwolff · Post by **kwolff** » Tue Aug 29, 2006 1:29 am

i dont think it works , simply becase a noob deadbeating can win or lose a game for someone . so in order to balance it out you should get the points for that. Im in a game now where the dead may have won , but maybe not, but since he deadbeated i will not be able to reach the continent of another player and with both of us beaten down by the deadbeat the other player will take the game. i just think its fair because a deadbeat noob or not adds a variable to the game , against the belief that it takes no skill to beat a deadbeat. many times its a harder game because someone deadbeats. thus it shouldnt matter if its a noob or not , its still in my opinion a harder game than when someone is playing.

maniacmath17 · Post by **maniacmath17** » Tue Aug 29, 2006 1:48 am

Kahn wrote:as far as deadbeats go in a team game I think that they should have to pay the total team cost in points. Also any points that the team may win should be split up with the remaining members. None to the deadbeat they just interupt the game they need stiff fines for so doing. This should apply to us all.

Peace through strength

There's no reason to have "stiff fines" given to new recruits that deadbeat since almost all of them won't be coming back after deadbeating.

maniacmath17 · Post by **maniacmath17** » Tue Aug 29, 2006 1:56 am

kwolff wrote:i dont think it works , simply becase a noob deadbeating can win or lose a game for someone . so in order to balance it out you should get the points for that. Im in a game now where the dead may have won , but maybe not, but since he deadbeated i will not be able to reach the continent of another player and with both of us beaten down by the deadbeat the other player will take the game. i just think its fair because a deadbeat noob or not adds a variable to the game , against the belief that it takes no skill to beat a deadbeat. many times its a harder game because someone deadbeats. thus it shouldnt matter if its a noob or not , its still in my opinion a harder game than when someone is playing.

In any game with a deadbeat, the neutral countries will help some players, and hurt others. So I don't think you can conclude that it is harder to win a game with a deadbeat, when infact it makes it easier for someone.

In your example, the player that benefited from the deadbeat is already getting points that he may not have won without the deadbeat. Why reward his good fortune with even more free points?

Emily_W · Post by **Emily_W** » Tue Aug 29, 2006 12:42 pm

As you are talking about deadbeats, I wanted to ask something. I've noticed that on terminator games, if someone deadbeats, be it a noob or not, they don't lose points, which is not right. My other half just had this happen to him, with two deadbeats in a terminator game - he was winning, but got no points as both other players disappeared. This really needs changing as well - as it could end up with people deadbeating just to avoid losing points!! (sorry if this has been brought up before!)

Phobia · Post by **Phobia** » Tue Aug 29, 2006 1:09 pm

Emily_W wrote:As you are talking about deadbeats, I wanted to ask something. I've noticed that on terminator games, if someone deadbeats, be it a noob or not, they don't lose points, which is not right. My other half just had this happen to him, with two deadbeats in a terminator game - he was winning, but got no points as both other players disappeared. This really needs changing as well - as it could end up with people deadbeating just to avoid losing points!! (sorry if this has been brought up before!)

the problem with that is who to give the points to? lets say theres 6 players, one guy deadbeats, who will get his points?

AK_iceman · Post by **AK_iceman** » Tue Aug 29, 2006 1:10 pm

Phobia wrote:
Emily_W wrote:As you are talking about deadbeats, I wanted to ask something. I've noticed that on terminator games, if someone deadbeats, be it a noob or not, they don't lose points, which is not right. My other half just had this happen to him, with two deadbeats in a terminator game - he was winning, but got no points as both other players disappeared. This really needs changing as well - as it could end up with people deadbeating just to avoid losing points!! (sorry if this has been brought up before!)

the problem with that is who to give the points to? lets say theres 6 players, one guy deadbeats, who will get his points?

The person who wins? That makes sense to me.

Emily_W · Post by **Emily_W** » Tue Aug 29, 2006 2:12 pm

I think the overall winner getting the points is fair

maniacmath17 · Post by **maniacmath17** » Tue Aug 29, 2006 5:18 pm

Yeah, I agree with the last two posts, the winner should get the points. Thats why we made the new rule, so that people couldn't deadbeat to avoid losing points.

But as I said earlier, new recruits don't deadbeat to avoid losing points, they just aren't coming back to the site. So no reason to give away their points.

kwolff · Post by **kwolff** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 4:37 am

i agree too the points should go to the winner.

maniac what i am saying is , you deserve the points. when everyone is playing you can expect certain things but when one misses a turn, you dont know if its because he couldnt get on or is deadbeating leaving you in limbo. Ive seen it said there is no skill in beating a deadbeat. There is nothing further from the truth.

1. you dont know if the guys is coming back or not - not only do you have to defend if hes near you , because he may get two or three times the guys, but you also have to worry about they guys on the other side of him.

2.have you ever lost 10 guys taking a deadbeats country to get through. This sucks.

3.lets say the deadbeat had 10 guys on nafrica and someone owned samerica. -your screwd because you thought he would attack it.

4.i feel that a deadbeat is a deadbeat period. noob or no noob

its simply easier to play when everyone plays it out. so i feel that you deserve the extra points for putting up with it. its not like your talking about 60 points either unless you really need them at the most it would only be 20 points or way less anyways in most cases.

reverend_kyle · Post by **reverend_kyle** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 9:04 am

maniacmath17 wrote:I'm not sure what the exact numbers are on this, but from my experience, a majority of new recruits that join public games end up deadbeating. A lot of them never come back to the site, so they arent really being penalized and the only result of taking away their points is that the winner gets points he/she didn't really earn.

Is it possible to not award points for beating new recruits that deadbeat? I agree with the new rule since we can't have experienced players deadbeating on purpose if they start off with a bad position. But I've never heard of a new recruit that cared enough about their 1000 points to trying something like that.

then their partner shouldnt get their territories either.

Kahn · Post by **Kahn** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 7:53 pm

maniacmath17 wrote:
Kahn wrote:as far as deadbeats go in a team game I think that they should have to pay the total team cost in points. Also any points that the team may win should be split up with the remaining members. None to the deadbeat they just interupt the game they need stiff fines for so doing. This should apply to us all.

Peace through strength

There's no reason to have "stiff fines" given to new recruits that deadbeat since almost all of them won't be coming back after deadbeating.

Im not talking about just noobs but all players..any who deadbeat a game

cramill · Post by **cramill** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 10:58 pm

Sorry I'm too tired right now to read all of the posts, and if this does not belong here you can yell at me (or if there is another topic about this, please redirect me), but I do not like the multiplying of armies if you miss a turn. Sure, it may be fair for people who miss a turn accidentaly (they were too busy with more importaint stuff, or they were away from a computer or internet for a while) but I don't think people should be able to skip a turn intentionaly and then get the multiplied armies their next turn. They should only get the armies they deserve for one turn - without multiplication. Sure, it may be too hard to tell if someone accidentally missed a turn or did it on purpose, so I think it should be done away with alltogether. (And tough luck to people who miss turns accidentally.)

maniacmath17 · Post by **maniacmath17** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 4:07 pm

kwolff wrote:i agree too the points should go to the winner.

maniac what i am saying is , you deserve the points. when everyone is playing you can expect certain things but when one misses a turn, you dont know if its because he couldnt get on or is deadbeating leaving you in limbo. Ive seen it said there is no skill in beating a deadbeat. There is nothing further from the truth.

1. you dont know if the guys is coming back or not - not only do you have to defend if hes near you , because he may get two or three times the guys, but you also have to worry about they guys on the other side of him.

2.have you ever lost 10 guys taking a deadbeats country to get through. This sucks.

3.lets say the deadbeat had 10 guys on nafrica and someone owned samerica. -your screwd because you thought he would attack it.

4.i feel that a deadbeat is a deadbeat period. noob or no noob

its simply easier to play when everyone plays it out. so i feel that you deserve the extra points for putting up with it. its not like your talking about 60 points either unless you really need them at the most it would only be 20 points or way less anyways in most cases.

I'm not sure what kind of new recruits you've been playing with, but from my experience the examples you provide almost never happen.

When I think of a new recruit deadbeat, I'm thinking of the guy that signs up for a game, maybe takes one turn in which he deploys his 3, and then never comes back.

If someone sticks around long enough to build up an army of 10 as you are suggesting, then they have probably been playing for a few turns and will be continuing to take turns. The only people I have seen that leave in the middle of a game like that are experienced players who have had something or another come up in real life, and ofcourse you deserve their points.

As for your comment Kyle, I don't see how this change would affect the partner recieving the territories.

kwolff · Post by **kwolff** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 11:00 pm

i play alot of no card games maniac , and new recruits do sign up alot and play two three or four rounds , then decide its not for them....so how would you tell them apart. if that were the case then you should be able to create games and not allow noobs to play , which i dislike also lol .......

maniacmath17 · Post by **maniacmath17** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 11:53 pm

I don't think the instances where new recruits build large armies before leaving is as frequent as you make it out to be. In all my games there's maybe 1 or 2 in which the new recruit played several turns before deadbeating, but theres atleast 20 in which they deadbeat within the first or second round. But that's besides the point.

It is just as possible that a deadbeat can help you win as it is for them to make it harder. Perhaps that 10 man army that becomes neutral is on one of your continent boarders, or maybe its one on one of the territories your opponent needs for a continent.

The reason that the new deadbeat rule was made, was so that people would be penalized for deadbeating if their starting possition was bad or what not. This practice is unheard of for new recruits. These people will not be coming back to the site, so there is no reason to take away their points. You can't justify taking their points by saying that it is harder to win with a deadbeat, since it is quite possible that the deadbeat may have helped you win the game.

No Points For New Recruit Deadbeats

No Points For New Recruit Deadbeats

Re: Adjustment to the new deadbeat rule