WWII Operation Iwo Jima [Quenched]

Coleman · Post by **Coleman** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 7:12 pm

Kyle, yeah.

mibi · Post by **mibi** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:11 pm

unriggable wrote:The problem witht he borders is how pixelated they are. Blur them.

don't blur them. nothing should be blurred on a map, ever. unless for some reason its out of the DOF.

reverend_kyle · Post by **reverend_kyle** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 1:22 am

Coleman wrote:Kyle, yeah.

oh I've just never heard it referred to with a number before.

By the way Creative Suite 3 is well worth the upgrade.

Qwert · Post by **Qwert** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 3:51 pm

Coleman Posted: 24 Sep 2007 23:15 Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It isn't just Andy that feels that way about the borders.

The problem is the current ones don't look like one of the three brush examples.

cairnswk and I can persuade the big men that you don't have to make these changes, but everyone will be happier if you do. You just need to find a program (photoshop 8 should do it exactly as shown) and go over all the borders with the brush style.

Now im double suprise,before you become CA,you have yours words and yours opinion,and now you change yours opinion,what hepend

withI still don't see the problem, qwert doesn't see it either

Its look that what Andy say,you must comfirm,even you not agree with that.
First i must say,that i dont see any improvment with yours examples,even more you ruin borders betwen Continent(you erase hem)Its look that Andy want to everybody forget what is real issue with border(what he create) and these is that he belive that borders in Plan B its not same with others country terittory borders.
I see these like new prolonge of these map.I know that im right and Andy is wrong,and i hope that now Andy will be objective for all map authors.
Cairnswick say that he development everything what people say,me to,but he then wait two day and map be quenched,i waith 7 days and nothing,insted these i give Andys opinion that borders in plan B not same like others terittory,i give hem explanation,and he never come back,and even now he ignore topic.Also borders style in mine map is problem,but in indochina is not problem because when WM say something,then people dont discuse anymore after hes one post.I explane 10 times maybe more,and Andy still dont belive me.
I only can repeat what i say before,and dont get explanation from Andy.

Andy its these a ignoring stage for these map?Its pass 7 days and you still not answer to mine last reply.
Quote:
Still you dont read what i wrote,you are a big boss and if you dont belive me that all borders is same,you can demand that i show you enlarge part of PLAN B with some other part of country. In these way you just strech proces on these map.
I repeat you have two option:
1.You dont belive me and demand to see enlarge part of map with Plan B and some other country border.
2.You belive me and we move to next stage.
I hope that you finaly answer directly and we will finish these job.

I hope that these going fast like in yours Battle of Actium Map,but i dont belive,do you know how many times andy ask Small and large image and xml,and after several days without any feedback,Andy still not quench map,but in Battle of Actium Andy ask for Small and large image XML,and after two days he quench map.

I hope that Andy(if i understand from Coleman and Cairnswick post he dont have problem with mine borders style)will apply these border style,and if dont then i will put these map on vacation to wait future time when some new CA will fight agains any subjectivity and give same right to all map authors,and not to few who can create diferent border style and be quenched after two day,and not waith two month.

Wisse · Post by **Wisse** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 4:11 pm

his borders are good, its his style, why get a fight about it every map he makes, there will be less attention from others because of those fights, please stop with those and go on with the map there is nothing wrong with his borders

reverend_kyle · Post by **reverend_kyle** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 5:02 pm

and wisse is a border nazi.

I say
quench.

AndyDufresne · Post by **AndyDufresne** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 5:13 pm

qwert wrote:
Coleman Posted: 24 Sep 2007 23:15 Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It isn't just Andy that feels that way about the borders.

The problem is the current ones don't look like one of the three brush examples.

cairnswk and I can persuade the big men that you don't have to make these changes, but everyone will be happier if you do. You just need to find a program (photoshop 8 should do it exactly as shown) and go over all the borders with the brush style.
Now im double suprise,before you become CA,you have yours words and yours opinion,and now you
change yours opinion,what hepend

========================
Qwert, I think you are misunderstanding what Coleman was doing. He wasn't saying this 'Needs to be done or else', he was suggesting a way to clear up the borders, addressing the issues raised by myself and a number of others. It was a method to do so, not a demand.
========================

withI still don't see the problem, qwert doesn't see it either
Its look that what Andy say,you must comfirm,even you not agree with that.
First i must say,that i dont see any improvment with yours examples,even more you ruin borders betwen Continent(you erase hem)

========================
My C.A.'s don't have to agree with me...they often do not! And that is alright. If I wanted to choose people who always agree with everything I say, I would've created some C.A. multiple accounts.

As for it not being an improvement, you do make the valid point it ruins in the continental borders, which I liked. So from my perspective, it seems the best way going forward would be to keep the borders as they are (but in future maps, it may be handy to try the method Coleman posted about, as it might avoid all this border debate. )
========================

Its look that Andy want to everybody forget what is real issue with border(what he create) and these is that he belive that borders in Plan B its not same with others country terittory borders.
I see these like new prolonge of these map.I know that im right and Andy is wrong,and i hope that now Andy will be objective for all map authors.

========================
This isn't about you being right and me being wrong, Qwert. It was all debate in regards to the best way to present a quality and polished map.
========================

Cairnswick say that he development everything what people say,me to,but he then wait two day and map be quenched,i waith 7 days and nothing,insted these i give Andys opinion that borders in plan B not same like others terittory,i give hem explanation,and he never come back,and even now he ignore topic.Also borders style in mine map is problem,but in indochina is not problem because when WM say something,then people dont discuse anymore after hes one post.I explane 10 times maybe more,and Andy still dont belive me.
I only can repeat what i say before,and dont get explanation from Andy.
Andy its these a ignoring stage for these map?Its pass 7 days and you still not answer to mine last reply.
Quote:
Still you dont read what i wrote,you are a big boss and if you dont belive me that all borders is same,you can demand that i show you enlarge part of PLAN B with some other part of country. In these way you just strech proces on these map.
I repeat you have two option:
1.You dont belive me and demand to see enlarge part of map with Plan B and some other country border.
2.You belive me and we move to next stage.
I hope that you finaly answer directly and we will finish these job.

I hope that these going fast like in yours Battle of Actium Map,but i dont belive,do you know how many times andy ask Small and large image and xml,and after several days without any feedback,Andy still not quench map,but in Battle of Actium Andy ask for Small and large image XML,and after two days he quench map.

I hope that Andy(if i understand from Coleman and Cairnswick post he dont have problem with mine borders style)will apply these border style,and if dont then i will put these map on vacation to wait future time when some new CA will fight agains any subjectivity and give same right to all map authors,and not to few who can create diferent border style and be quenched after two day,and not waith two month.

========================
I think most of this could've been avoided, qwert, if rather than arguing about whether it should be done or shouldn't, it was tested, as Coleman did. As we can see, it actually makes the map look worse. If we would've done this earlier, it could've been avoided. As for equal rights for all cartographers, I know I'll never get you to think everyone is equal .
========================

--Andy

Coleman · Post by **Coleman** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 5:31 pm

If you read all of my first post you'd see I still don't see the problem, and like andy said this was just a method suggestion that would likely have removed all opposition to your map. Chances are your map will be quenched with all the others soon.

WidowMakers · Post by **WidowMakers** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 6:19 pm

Wisse wrote:his borders are good, its his style, why get a fight about it every map he makes, there will be less attention from others because of those fights, please stop with those and go on with the map there is nothing wrong with his borders

Because if I made a map with borders like this, everyone would complain. I like blurry maps. I s that OK?

I think the main issue with qwert is his unwillingness to attempt suggestions. If someone suggests changing a border to a brush instead of a pencil, he complains complains for 40 pages. Then people say "it is his style".

His style is good and I do also like his maps. It just amazes me that he would rather complain about making 20 minute changes for 3 weeks instead of making them and then comparing the two.

qwert wrote:First i must say,that i don't see any improvement with yours examples,even more you ruin borders between Continent(you erase hem)

Well qwert I am sorry for you if you cannot tell the difference between a pixelated pencil line and a smoother brush line in photoshop.

And if you want the border between bonus areas to be bigger then use a pixel brush or increase the outer glow values. It is not hard.

ONCE AGAIN
You would get a lot less complaints from people qwert if you took the suggestions and made samples so we could all see (like above) and not just complain.

hulmey · Post by **hulmey** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:48 pm

The only people that ever complain are the Mods!! This leads people to believe its Andy pushing his own personal opinon.. Everyone else thinks they are fine. Qwert's borders arent blurred at all...They are pixelated!! Big difference...

Qwert · Post by **Qwert** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 4:15 pm

Andy
I think most of this could've been avoided, qwert, if rather than arguing about whether it should be done or shouldn't, it was tested, as Coleman did. As we can see, it actually makes the map look worse. If we would've done this earlier, it could've been avoided. As for equal rights for all cartographers, I know I'll never get you to think everyone is equal .
========================

Ofcourse is not equal, a loth people see these,not only me.

Qwert, I think you are misunderstanding what Coleman was doing. He wasn't saying this 'Needs to be done or else', he was suggesting a way to clear up the borders, addressing the issues raised by myself and a number of others. It was a method to do so, not a demand.
========================

So you want to say that i dont need to change borders.

Coleman Posted: 25 Sep 2007 22:31 Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you read all of my first post you'd see I still don't see the problem, and like andy said this was just a method suggestion that would likely have removed all opposition to your map. Chances are your map will be quenched with all the others soon.

Can you explane me these,because i dont understand,do you want to tell me that if i do what Andy say i will have biger chances to mine map be quenched faster. :?:

Coleman · Post by **Coleman** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 4:21 pm

I'm saying it would be faster because people wouldn't have anything to complain about anymore.

As it is, our internal stance now is that the border complaints have been refuted. Reposting the images with text links would be a good idea.

We will turn WidowMaker's border examples and how he made them into a tutorial for people to use if they want to see how we recommend borders be done.

Qwert · Post by **Qwert** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 4:23 pm

WM
Because if I made a map with borders like this, everyone would complain. I like blurry maps. I s that OK?

I think the main issue with qwert is his unwillingness to attempt suggestions. If someone suggests changing a border to a brush instead of a pencil, he complains complains for 40 pages. Then people say "it is his style".

His style is good and I do also like his maps. It just amazes me that he would rather complain about making 20 minute changes for 3 weeks instead of making them and then comparing the two.

I dont get any complain from people,only from Andy,and i like rules says give explanation,but he dont show for 15 days,and when he come back he first quench Battle of Actium map, strictly by rules of two days waithing.I also must say that you get complain from former CA Keyogu,(borders in Indochina rewamp)and you put only 1 post and all discusion been closed,maybe you have more power in CC and yours explanation is rule for CA.

cairnswk · Post by **cairnswk** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 4:26 pm

Qwert....could we have the links to large, small and xml please.

Coleman · Post by **Coleman** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 4:27 pm

qwert wrote:maybe you have more power in CC and yours explanation is rule for CA.

I'm not going to say WidowMakers bosses us around, but he does have the most experience designing maps so we do listen to him frequently and often ask him for advice behind the scenes.

Anyway, you are pretty close, but it would be a good idea to repost the text links and the link to the xml I hosted for you, as Andy won't dig for them if he is ready to quench.

Qwert · Post by **Qwert** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 4:32 pm

One momen please to find yours xml

Coleman · Post by **Coleman** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 4:34 pm

Here
http://members.cox.net/gyrigo/CC/WWII_Iwo_Jima.xml
Sorry, lol.

Qwert · Post by **Qwert** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 4:41 pm

O thanks C
Here links to all 3 things

xml
http://members.cox.net/gyrigo/CC/WWII_Iwo_Jima.xml
small
http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z188 ... gendom.png
large
http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z188 ... gendom.png

AndyDufresne · Post by **AndyDufresne** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 7:26 pm

Quenching

The Final Forge period has concluded for the WWII - Iwo Jima Map. All objections have had their time. The Foundry and I hereby brand this map with the Foundry Brand. Let it be known that this map is now ready for live play (barring any Lack vetoes).

Conquer Club, enjoy!

--Andy

DiM · Post by **DiM** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 7:50 pm

weee. congrats qwert.

Gilligan · Post by **Gilligan** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 8:03 pm

Congrats.

gimil · Post by **gimil** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 8:08 pm

Well done qwerts

unriggable · Post by **unriggable** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 8:15 pm

Fantastic qwert. Well deserved. BTW is it WWII Iwo Jima or just Iwo Jima?

Coleman · Post by **Coleman** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 8:18 pm

unriggable wrote:Fantastic qwert. Well deserved. BTW is it WWII Iwo Jima or just Iwo Jima?

It will be WWII Iwo Jima to match WWII Eastern Front.

jako · Post by **jako** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 8:53 pm

congratz on another WWII addition.