I've had it

Hatchman · Post by **Hatchman** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 9:15 am

I am tired of hitting 2300 points and then dropping to just below 2000, and then doing it again, and again, and again. Ok sometimes a guy goes for a kill, it doesn't work out, and someone else is lucky enough to finish the kill and steal the game. And sometimes you get stuck with 4 cards and no set when the cashes are 30+. Ok, can't help these things. But when everything is supposed to go right, with a timely cash and advantageous positioning, it should bloody well go right. What finally broke the camel's back for me was an escalating game just completed in San Fran. I cash a set for 25. Red is holding 5 cards. Other guys are holding 4 and 5 as well. I deploy to kill red. My advantage was 45 armies to 25. Easy. I just have to kill red, then hit other guys and end up collecting about 14 cards in that one turn. This is 4 sets translating to 160 armies. Game over, right? Nope. As improbable and utterly ridiculous as it sounds, my 45 armies lose to 25 defenders. I mean what is the point of comprehensive planning and strategic positioning when it all falls apart due to highly improbable dice rolls? Considering all the games in which I put myself in a position to win after thoroughly contemplating each move, only to be let down by uncanny dice, I should have at least 2800 points.

I've had it.

Wisse · Post by **Wisse** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 9:17 am

you are lucky, i am stuck at 1200-1400 wich i never get out (hmm maybe less then 1200 but i hope not)

DaGip · Post by **DaGip** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 9:51 am

hatchman wrote:I am tired of hitting 2300 points and then dropping to just below 2000, and then doing it again, and again, and again. Ok sometimes a guy goes for a kill, it doesn't work out, and someone else is lucky enough to finish the kill and steal the game. And sometimes you get stuck with 4 cards and no set when the cashes are 30+. Ok, can't help these things. But when everything is supposed to go right, with a timely cash and advantageous positioning, it should bloody well go right. What finally broke the camel's back for me was an escalating game just completed in San Fran. I cash a set for 25. Red is holding 5 cards. Other guys are holding 4 and 5 as well. I deploy to kill red. My advantage was 45 armies to 25. Easy. I just have to kill red, then hit other guys and end up collecting about 14 cards in that one turn. This is 4 sets translating to 160 armies. Game over, right? Nope. As improbable and utterly ridiculous as it sounds, my 45 armies lose to 25 defenders. I mean what is the point of comprehensive planning and strategic positioning when it all falls apart due to highly improbable dice rolls? Considering all the games in which I put myself in a position to win after thoroughly contemplating each move, only to be let down by uncanny dice, I should have at least 2800 points.

I've had it.

"Improbable" is the key word...it was possibel...don't you agree? The debate about dice is a neverending saga. "Dice are hacked", "This dice can't possibly be random"...

Now, are you trying to say that the dice are not random? That some how, the dice generator knows when you are close to moving up in rank, that it sometimes throws a hack into the program? Certainly you can't be serious.

I have played real board games with real dice and have had the same scenarios happen. 2 men holding off an army of 20 or more...the truth is, it happens...as improbable as it sounds. Then it is human nature to remember the bad rolls, and we then assume that the dice generator is hacked...I assure you that it is not.

And by your statement "I had it"...does that mean you are quitting CC? Or are you just blowing off some steam? Or do you mean you are going to leave after your message and commit suicide?

Bad dice are just a part of the CC landscape...and truthfully, I wouldn't have it any other way.

Bad dice might screw you from time to time...but it also is equally screwing with your opponents as well. And when you are in a very tight game, and you know your opponent just lost 20 against your 2...you know that your opponent is jumping up an down and screaming at the top of his/her lungs! Hehe...that is a good feeling when the bad dice are on the other foot.

Hatchman · Post by **Hatchman** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 9:59 am

DaGip wrote:I have played real board games with real dice and have had the same scenarios happen. 2 men holding off an army of 20 or more...the truth is, it happens...as improbable as it sounds.

Of course it happens, but it seems to happen with astonishing regularity here. I hate to toot someone else's horn, but over at Grand Strategy, it's a different story. I've completed 12 or 13 games there, and the only time the dice acted "improbably" it was on an 8 to 1 attack or something. And that was the only time it happened. When I went for kills with decent odds, they all worked out. I'm not saying there's a some conspiracy to keep me or others from climbing the scoreboard. But I do think the extreme and the improbable happen a little to often here to be credible.

DiM · Post by **DiM** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:04 am

losing 45vs25 is more probable than losing 8vs1 so judging by that Grand Strategy has even crappier dice. :lol:

i wanted to quit when i auto attacked 153vs72 it ended 3vs54
so i lost 150 and the other guy lost 18 :lol:

wacicha · Post by **wacicha** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:12 am

we all care about rank and points, some of us less than others or we would not play the types of games we do.

That said I am always between 1900 And 2400 in points and I truely believe it is my fault. I know I can over power a player, but it depends on me. Do I truely over power the player - No. The dice are always a consideration. I have been learning to stop my attacks if I am losing the men.

And I truely believe because I watch the dice i mean to say respect them that they love me. I play quite a few games and although I have been left hanging a few times. I over all get my rolls.

I LOVE THE DICE

Captain_Kris · Post by **Captain_Kris** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:50 am

I'll agree that the die generator can get stuck and when it does it is painful, but the crushing defeats are always more memorable than the fantastic attacks.

When it happens, I have to remind myself of the 7 on 32 "last act of defiance" attack I did that was successful.

Just look at the new players whose first turn consists of attacking from every spot that occasionally get lucky and grab huge tracts o' land on the first turn.

Nc_Hunt3r · Post by **Nc_Hunt3r** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 11:07 am

I'm the same way... I bounce from corporal to first class corporal.. and just about everytime I lose my rank its dice not strategy =/

jiminski · Post by **jiminski** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 11:19 am

Don't let it get on top Hatch.
You've lost your partner and you've had a bit of a tough run but the world is not against you mate.

Part of being a good player is about controlling your emotions in adversity.
You'll get bad and good luck; it's all about maintaining your strategy when it goes wrong...
Indeed, as Wac pointed out, it can be the tailoring of your strategy to allow for disaster which is the true test of metal.

Most of all! remember that it is a game and it is supposed to be fun...

like chess, it is a test of intellect. Unlike Chess there is a safety valve which makes it an impure test.. that impurity gives us an allusion to rest our pain upon... the impurity is chance!

BeakerWMA · Post by **BeakerWMA** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 11:30 am

Whenever I start to complain about the dice I remember when I attacked a 2v4 (needed his cards to win so figured why not) and won! (Of course it had started out 13v5...but I digress).

xtratabasco · Post by **xtratabasco** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 11:33 am

hatchman wrote: I cash a set for 25. Red is holding 5 cards. Other guys are holding 4 and 5 as well. I deploy to kill red. My advantage was 45 armies to 25. Easy. I just have to kill red, then hit other guys and end up collecting about 14 cards in that one turn. This is 4 sets translating to 160 armies. Game over, right? Nope. As improbable and utterly ridiculous as it sounds, my 45 armies lose to 25 defenders. I mean what is the point of comprehensive planning and strategic positioning when it all falls apart due to highly improbable dice rolls?

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24929

jiminski · Post by **jiminski** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 11:52 am

hehe, you have a convert Xtra!

I think to put these things into perspective you need to ask yourself a few simple questions about those at the Top of the scoreboard:

Do they, in general, possess more skill than those at its foot?

Do they roll the same dice?

Do they employ strategies to limit the influence of luck upon the end result?

And Finally for a bit of fun..... Do they covert their points?
Indeed they do but as we can see; Hatch, who i can testify to being a very skilled opponent and one who wishes to increase his rank, finds this very tricky to do so. As do I!

So, I honestly believe that the dice are annoyingly Random. I also believe that it really does not matter if they are or not .. provided they are the same for us all.

xtratabasco · Post by **xtratabasco** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 12:01 pm

jiminski wrote:hehe, you have a convert Xtra!

So, I honestly believe that the dice are annoyingly Random. I also believe that it really does not matter if they are or not .. provided they are the same for us all.

yes, I agree.

But just think about this.

If your playing at home and you have 60 vs. 3 you are going to die of old age before you ever loose at those odds. But here where they lump/alter the rolls its possible and happens.

My whole point is that your rolls should be lumped together with your rolls, not from millions of other rolls around the world.

If your gonna die of old age before you lose 60 to 3 then it shouldnt matter if its on the Internet or not.

Thats why I dont think there random here, because the rolls are altered and not as vaild as God intended random to be.

but to CCs credit, I can enjoy playing over 80 games without it taking all my space up in my living room, so ill just have to deal with it (even though it aint random)

:lol:

Nephilim · Post by **Nephilim** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 12:07 pm

i have several strategies of tricking the dice into working for me. but i can't tell you, hatch. my secrets are highly prized. you must work with the dice, massage them, let them marinate when they are bad, come back with confidence and bitch slap those little bastards, be aware of the magic numbers, and of course sacrifice a fish to budda, a la ptlowe

happy2seeyou · Post by **happy2seeyou** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 12:09 pm

I have heard that the dice like to be blown

rebelman · Post by **rebelman** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 12:22 pm

happy2seeyou wrote:I have heard that the dice like to be blown

don't we all :wink:

clapper011 · Post by **clapper011** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 12:24 pm

figures you would say that reb..LOL

jiminski · Post by **jiminski** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 12:30 pm

Trust you ladies to pull us down on you to this level!

khazalid · Post by **khazalid** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 12:47 pm

jiminski wrote:Don't let it get on top Hatch.
You've lost your partner and you've had a bit of a tough run but the world is not against you mate.

Part of being a good player is about controlling your emotions in adversity.
You'll get bad and good luck; it's all about maintaining your strategy when it goes wrong...
Indeed, as Wac pointed out, it can be the tailoring of your strategy to allow for disaster which is the true test of metal.

Most of all! remember that it is a game and it is supposed to be fun...

like chess, it is a test of intellect. Unlike Chess there is a safety valve which makes it an impure test.. that impurity gives us an allusion to rest our pain upon... the impurity is chance!

nicely worded

joecoolfrog · Post by **joecoolfrog** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 1:33 pm

Happens to everybody Hatchman, I have seen comic screaming at the computer screen and he must have been luckier than most.

TipTop · Post by **TipTop** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 2:44 pm

What your displaying now Hatchman is classic tilting. An irrational reaction to bad luck can lead to irrational plays and it's probably this that is holding you back and not the dice.

If the dice were waited unfairly towards the defensive dice as I assume your claiming (no one has ever come on here to complain about how poor their defensive dice were). Then it would show up in your long term results in your dice analyzer stats.

You can't consistently have more than normal streaks of bad luck and still have random long term results.

The dice program would have to correct itself in order to do this which would mean recording each players results and giving them good streaks of luck on purpose to bring their stats back into line. We know Random.org doesn't work that way.

If your ever going to complain about the dice and use the word "seems" as part of your argument just stop writing and delete!

yorkiepeter · Post by **yorkiepeter** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 3:17 pm

although i agree that in the long run the dice will even out, it does appear that they are streakier than real dice. I've had amazingly good rolls and other times you just know that you are doomed. It seems to work for the opponents too, either all attacks fail for a while or they are all successful

Can someone setup a program to test streakiness. To only activate after 2 winning or losing rolls, i'll bet the 3rd roll will be the same as the first 2 results more often than not

The1exile · Post by **The1exile** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 3:47 pm

It;'s very weird, since people who quit often do so because of bad dice, meaning that in the long run, luck should actually be above average here.

Must be wacicha hoarding it all.

ParadiceCity9 · Post by **ParadiceCity9** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 3:49 pm

Wisse wrote:you are lucky, i am stuck at 1200-1400 wich i never get out (hmm maybe less then 1200 but i hope not)

sully800 · Post by **sully800** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 5:24 pm

Become a multi hunter and then use the sweet dice hacks that lack opens up for you.

I don't like to use them in most of my games because it almost feels like cheating, but I regularly employ my special dice when playing against Kid_A

I've had it

I've had it

Re: I've had it

Re: I've had it

Re: I've had it