Portugal [Quenched]

[_sioux_]

it´s a great map.

I will play it a lot as soon as it gets out there.

[gimil]

XML
http://h1.ripway.com/GIMIL1/Portugal.XML

LARGE
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c64/G ... MALL-2.png



SMALL
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c64/G ... ARGE-2.png

[_sioux_]

Only a small question.

IF its "norte" and "centro" (that is in Portuguese) Why is Islands and not "Ilhas" or "Arquipélagos"?

It shoul be all in the same language, Portuguese or English.

[gimil]

Only a small question.

IF its "norte" and "centro" (that is in Portuguese) Why is Islands and not "Ilhas" or "Arquipélagos"?

It shoul be all in the same language, Portuguese or English.

thats very true. The islands continent came in after a change all the names to Portuguese. Ill fix it and upload it ASAP.

thanxs sioux

[Coleman]

Are we going to lose the Azores doing that? I'm not sure I understand the suggestion, and if the Azores are renamed I'm going to be upset.

[gimil]

no azores isnt being renamed. The continent name "islands" is being renamed.

[TMG26]

sorry for this late post... but when _sioux_ told you to change ALGARVE OESTE by LAGOS OU PORTIMAO it was for you to choose between LAGOS OR PORTIMAO..... cuz lagos and portimao are the name of 2 cities.... not 1..... ("ou" means "OR")




AND YOU CAN CHANGE ISLANDS BY "ILHAS"

[gimil]

SMALL



LARGE



XML

http://h1.ripway.com/gimil01/Portugal.XML

NOTE: Because of the new Territory tag for the XML i cant include army numbers but if you check previous post you'll see that coordinates are centered and coleman was kind enough to ensure the entire code was correct

[DiM]

Quite a crappy portUgal map. thE gameplay sucks. the graphics areN't good at all. i'd say Cut your losses and start from scratcH

[gimil]

i don't like this map. the gameplay sucks the graphics look like a kid has found ms paint. totally worthless. start from scratch

I still hate you

[DiM]

edited

[gimil]

edited

[MR. Nate]

Before FF

I love a good geographical map as much as anyone, but this one bores me a bit. Visually, the gray in Spain is brutal. I don't know what color it should be, but gray is just . . . boring. Perhaps that is saying something on your opinion of Spain, I don't know, but I need to get sucked in.

Add some imagery to the dead territory like in the Mongol Empire map or something else to try and just liven up the map a bit. It feels a bit washed out and drab at the moment.

Since FF

I put post before yours map been forged,with question of yours background who is gray dead,and you nothing do with these.

Nothing has really changed since then,(pg 8.) the map still has that bland/washed out feel to it. More so now actually than what it did on page 8.
I'm not sure the glow on the text is doing anything for you. With an effect on the text it would give you the opportunity to move some of your territory labels into a better position, but I think this is an area that still needs some tweaking.
Sea routes are still bad in my opinion. They do nothing to reflect a sea route. I would seriously consider some other options here, your map would benefit from it.

I am gonna agree with keyogi a bit on this one.
1)When i first look at this map it seems to be missing something. The bonus regions are just a color. If I hold red I hold red. Big deal. What is the region of red called. I would make the legend better by adding names for the regions. That way players can associate with each territory.
2)Also I know the map is a texture light map. But it is too light in my opinion. It looks boring. Spice it up a bit. You want people to look at the map and say WOW this looks cool. Add some Portuguese culture to the map. A flag a motto. Maybe each region of the country is know for a particular product or natural resource.

I agree with WM.
I get that you have tried to stay simple, but unfortunatly you have ended up with boring.

I WANT to like this map, I really do, but it makes me sleepy.

[DiM]

I WANT to like this map, I really do, but it makes me sleepy.

look here:
Since FF

To me it already stands out because it has a fresh, very clean cut appeal to it.

As for the general 'simpleness/lacklusterness' (depending on which side you lean) I don't mind the...hm...I'd use the word 'cleanliness' of this map. Sometimes maps with too many things going on, textures, images, wild colors, just distract my eye and hurt.

well it certainly stands out due to it's simplicity. compare it to recent maps. it's like a breath of fresh air. to me it's a clean comfortable simple feeling.

I like the classic feel of the map and don't want to see this map turn to crap, so I respectfully agree with DiM.

[MR. Nate]

So your response is, "There's controversy, so it stays the way it is" ?????

Can't we see a little effort at reconciliation? Maybe a tad more texture as WM suggested, or some color in Spain, or some culture. I'm not asking for gimil to give it to cairns for a revamp, I'm just saying that a little more something would be nice.

Classic is fairly plain, but has little jets.
Middle East is simple, but has a guy with a bow, and an interesting font.
Ireland is as basic as it gets, but looks like a real map, and manages to pull you in.

On this map, the dominant colors are gray and sky blue, neither of which are compelling. The font is very basic, nothing compelling there, even the much debated lines are just kind of boring. The best geographical maps reflect the region they portray, so think of something that is uniquely Portuguese and add it behind the title.

Throw us a bone, change the font to a script at least.

[DiM]

my point is it should be up to the cartographer seeing that some people like it like this and some people want it changed.

if he wants to leave it like this it's fine. if he wants to add some texture fine again.

[nicas]

Well, graphically it looks nice. But being portuguese I can tell you that the map has a lot of errors.

From North to South:

The river is south of Porto, not north.
And I suggest that the river crosses the whole country (like in reallity) and there is a connection between Porto and the south shore.

It's Castelo Branco and not Castello Branco. And change it with Covilha which is north next to Guarda.
And I don't know if you can but it's Covilhã the exact name.

There is no river between Figueira da Foz and Pombal.

The biggest and largest river in the country is not shown. It starts in Lisboa and moves north to Covilha (where should be Castelo Branco).
And Santarém is north of that river, not south.

Alentejo is very badly divided.
The river that starts in Setúbal goes south, not north.
Beja is to the interior, not close to the sea.
And that pointy thing on Beja, where the connection to Madeira begins... that's Sines.
Estermoz it's in fact Estremoz.

In the Algarve it can't be Lagos ou Portimão. In english that means Lagos or Portimão. So, you have to chose one. Or Lagos, or Portimão. Either one it's fine.
And Algarve Este (Algarve east in english) you can call it VRSA (which is what the portuguese call the biggest city there which is Vila Real de Santo António).

Now the islands:

If you want everything with the native name, then it's Açores and not Azores.

And there is no north or south in Açores, only east, center and west.



Now a few advices/ideas I have for you:

Keep the same big divisions
- Norte (which I would call Douro)
- Centro (which I would call Beiras)
- Lisboa (which I would call Litoral)
- Alentejo
- Algarve
- Islands (Ilhas in portuguese)

Divide each of them more accuratly.

Then draw a river between Norte and Centro, and another one from Lisboa to Covilha (that should be Castelo Branco).
Then make bridge connections between Porto (that should be on north shore) and the south shore. And between Lisboa and Setúbal. Just like in reality those are the major connections to cross teh rivers.

Then disconnect the islands from the country since they are very far in the ocean.

I suggest you make airports.
Like in reality there are 5 of them: Porto, Lisboa, Faro, Central Açores and Madeira.
So the only connections to the islands would be made only from Porto, Lisboa and Faro. You can connect the islands between them although Madeira and Açores are far away.

Here (scroll down) you can see an image of the division in Portugal. Not very good but it's accurate and the names are in english.

[KEYOGI]

It would be nice to at least see some alternative options. Most cartographers will go as far as at least trying these things so the community can make an informed decision.

[MR. Nate]

Well, graphically it looks nice. But being portuguese I can tell you that the map has a lot of errors.

From North to South:

The river is south of Porto, not north.
And I suggest that the river crosses the whole country (like in reallity) and there is a connection between Porto and the south shore.

It's Castelo Branco and not Castello Branco. And change it with Covilha which is north next to Guarda.
And I don't know if you can but it's Covilhã the exact name.

There is no river between Figueira da Foz and Pombal.

The biggest and largest river in the country is not shown. It starts in Lisboa and moves north to Covilha (where should be Castelo Branco).
And Santarém is north of that river, not south.

Alentejo is very badly divided.
The river that starts in Setúbal goes south, not north.
Beja is to the interior, not close to the sea.
And that pointy thing on Beja, where the connection to Madeira begins... that's Sines.
Estermoz it's in fact Estremoz.

In the Algarve it can't be Lagos ou Portimão. In english that means Lagos or Portimão. So, you have to chose one. Or Lagos, or Portimão. Either one it's fine.
And Algarve Este (Algarve east in english) you can call it VRSA (which is what the portuguese call the biggest city there which is Vila Real de Santo António).

Now the islands:

If you want everything with the native name, then it's Açores and not Azores.

And there is no north or south in Açores, only east, center and west.



Now a few advices/ideas I have for you:

Keep the same big divisions
- Norte (which I would call Douro)
- Centro (which I would call Beiras)
- Lisboa (which I would call Litoral)
- Alentejo
- Algarve
- Islands (Ilhas in portuguese)

Divide each of them more accuratly.

Then draw a river between Norte and Centro, and another one from Lisboa to Covilha (that should be Castelo Branco).
Then make bridge connections between Porto (that should be on north shore) and the south shore. And between Lisboa and Setúbal. Just like in reality those are the major connections to cross teh rivers.

Then disconnect the islands from the country since they are very far in the ocean.

I suggest you make airports.
Like in reality there are 5 of them: Porto, Lisboa, Faro, Central Açores and Madeira.
So the only connections to the islands would be made only from Porto, Lisboa and Faro. You can connect the islands between them although Madeira and Açores are far away.

Here (scroll down) you can see an image of the division in Portugal. Not very good but it's accurate and the names are in english.

Glad you suggested these minor changes so early in the process . . .

[nicas]

Glad you suggested these minor changes so early in the process . . .

I'm sorry if you're dispointed but I saw this topic TODAY right before I posted.

And if the changes are worth it, it's never too late...

Anyway, just tryed to help. If he wants to change it, good, if he doesn't want to change it, fine by me.
You, on the other hand, should re-think on the constructiveness of your comments

[Bad Speler]

I agree with most of what you said (granted i only skim-read, that was a huge post), especially the name changes. However the airports and river changes would alter the gameplay too much. I wouldnt mind seeing that river go south of Porto though.

[Coleman]

I'm 95% sure the rivers defy real geography for game play reasons. As well as a few other things you pointed out. As far as names go I could see them being changed.

[MR. Nate]

I'm sorry if you're dispointed but I saw this topic TODAY right before I posted.

I'm just trying to point out that you essentially asked him to start the map from scratch. Rerouting rivers, disconnecting the islands and adding airports are all major gameplay changes so suggesting them would probably be helpful prior to Final Forge. The name changes from a native are easier graphically, and won't effect gameplay, but if he's got his coding close, making those changes could be a ton of work.

If he wants to change it, good, if he doesn't want to change it, fine by me.

If you don't even CARE, why suggest it at all?

[Spockers]

I suggest you make airports.
Like in reality there are 5 of them: Porto, Lisboa, Faro, Central Açores and Madeira.
So the only connections to the islands would be made only from Porto, Lisboa and Faro. You can connect the islands between them although Madeira and Açores are far away.

No. there is nothing more contrived on a map than airports.

They are unrealistic, and make bad maps worse.

If there is a problem, redesign how your territories lie. Do not use airports as a solution.

[nicas]

If you don't even CARE, why suggest it at all?

I didn't say I don't care, I said that if he doesn't change it and have a map that doesn't represent reality I won't get desperatly mad.

I just saw a topic about Portugal, and had a look.
Since I believe that maps follow reality (except for those that obviously have no reality base), I tought I would give my contribution since I'm portuguese and have far more knowladge about how it goes.

And the airports idea was based on the "King of the Mountain" map and those helipads thingys.
And it makes it more real since it's the only way to get to the islands.

As for being in the final forge... It only takes a google search for "Portugal map" to see how the country is devided and where is which region and river. I wonder how the map got to the final forge with so many mistakes... but that's just me...