Black Metal Mafia - SCUM WINS

[Loose Canon]

Lynching jfm was the incorrect play.
Diverting from lynching Ew IS an incorrect play for a townie.

[Charle]

I really don't think we should lynch EW today. There is no reason to believe he is scum and if he flips town it will be a huge loss for town, even more so if he flips jailkeeper. Kong on the other hand is quiet the whole D3 so far, normally he contributes at least every now and then which makes me even more suspicious.

[Ragian]

Official vote count



EW (1) - Loose
Kong (2) - Charle, Devante
Charle (1) - Max
Loose (2) - EW, Son!c

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Spoiler

[b]Latest post mod time (GMT+1)[/b] 1. Charle - Jan 30, 8:00 am 2. Extreme Ways - Jan 29, 12:57 am 4. Son!c - Jan 29, 11:13 pm 6. Loose Cannon - Jan 29, 11:36 pm 8. Devante - Jan 27, 7:08 pm 9. kongming3 - No post D3 - [b]has been prodded[/b] 11. Trafalgarlaw01 - Jan 28, 2:11 am 12. Maxleod - Jan 28, 8:47 am

[Loose Canon]

Well, a new recruit game in which there's no detective, might better be called a cop out game.

There's actually 3 reasonable options for town, and I'll list them in best to least best.

1. Lynch Ew, he'd have driven not recruiting.
2. Lynch sonic, he's posted masses of smokescreen
3. Lynch me, at least then you'll see Sonic's smokescreen

And be very wary of any claims that Ew or sonic might make.
Fake claiming by scum is the hidden advantage of not recruiting.
Sonic put forward the idea I wouldn't have thought about it at the time.
Ew put forward the idea that with a recruit, there was still scope for fake claiming.
Both cast doubt on the no recruit theory.

[Extreme Ways]

You - sonic - cleared????

The correct play is straightforward.

1. Lynch Ew today. (If he flips scum I'm virtually cleared)
2. If Ew flips scum, jailkeeper jails you sonic tonight so we see if there is a kill or not. If not you are virtually incriminated. If there is still a kill you're probably innocent - albeit one who's played distraction for 2nd scum today.

Are you afraid of the play on Ew today sonic?

and if I flip town?

[Loose Canon]

Then I've got it completely wrong.

A detective claim by someone other than you or sonic would prevent that.
If there is such a detective it's their decision if and when to claim.

You know you'd like the play if it wasn't on anyone other than you Ew.

[kongming3]

Here now - let's be super clear that jfm had no secret information or role and only voted for me as a revenge vote after I voted him. His only actual "reason" was that he thought Sonic was suspicious and decided we were connected (and therefore he had no choice to vote me instead of the primary person he found suspicious), conveniently ignoring the fact that my very first post was anti-sonic so I don't see much thought or research going into his gameplay. My reasons for voting him were clear and logical, nobody offered up any issues or objections to them at the time including jfm himself, and many people remaining were very eager to vote him (and lynch quickly at that.) Any sort of attempted coordinated lynch on me after the fact stemming from a small group of people strikes me as rather odd.

I'd also like to clarify something about the potential suspicions on Ew. From my understanding, it's based primarily on the player assumption that Ew would not want to recruit? All other arguments seem to follow just because of that original conclusion? While I don't love trying to meta game like that, if I temporarily play ball and take your reads as true (that Ew and Traf would both prefer to not recruit and are therefore marginally more likely to be scum if we think scum chose not to recruit), would Traf not make more sense as a potential lynch? He's spent the entire game casting aspersions at people, but has steered clear of ever putting himself at risk by getting into the thick of things. I don't think it's very helpful as town to sit on a high horse and call any activity suspicious (when town needs to try stuff to gain information or lose by default without power roles), but it's very easy to do as scum and let's him keep his hands clean and float along by while still getting to indirectly influence lynches. As long as your scum buddy isn't in danger, you can keep doing that risk-free and come out looking good when you aren't ever involved in lynches that practically only scum could actually know are on townies. I don't think Traf is guaranteed scum by any means, but I do think he has played in a way that's not helpful (and at times actively unhelpful) to town, while being self-preserving in a fashion that fits what scum wants to achieve.

[SoN!c]

Then I've got it completely wrong.

A detective claim by someone other than you or sonic would prevent that.
If there is such a detective it's their decision if and when to claim.

You know you'd like the play if it wasn't on anyone other than you Ew.

Anybody on D3 thinks only 2 scum with 4 dead and no pr.

Now your saying the cop (who very likely does not exist!!) has to give a signal and if he does not EW is scum proven??? I MEAN??? That is even better then your "buddy theory" buddy.

Also, you leave 0 room for any initiative outside your own. Immediate responses all the time, everybody has to follow you, flooding the thread, wishy washy, but never once answering real questions on yourself..

Instead You have placed votes on everybody here (except on Kong i think), with all sorts of crazyness and smoke it's hilarious, i can't even remember all the crazy loony tunes you've put out here, and it's just D3... - everytime you say your SURE (but a bit later it's "I missed that, but apparently it was very obvious to the rest" or "i was wrong"...).

Please do not respond anymore - it's only more of the same. Give others a chance to post something and respond to it (without Loose stepping in between and claiming the thread for himself and his loony tunes all the time).

[Loose Canon]

Mate, even as scum, you love it, you even asked me to sign your air guitar. That is beyond even the Immortal Demonaz.

[SoN!c]

Here now - let's be super clear that jfm had no secret information or role and only voted for me as a revenge vote after I voted him. His only actual "reason" was that he thought Sonic was suspicious and decided we were connected (and therefore he had no choice to vote me instead of the primary person he found suspicious), conveniently ignoring the fact that my very first post was anti-sonic so I don't see much thought or research going into his gameplay. My reasons for voting him were clear and logical, nobody offered up any issues or objections to them at the time including jfm himself, and many people remaining were very eager to vote him (and lynch quickly at that.) Any sort of attempted coordinated lynch on me after the fact stemming from a small group of people strikes me as rather odd.

I'd also like to clarify something about the potential suspicions on Ew. From my understanding, it's based primarily on the player assumption that Ew would not want to recruit? All other arguments seem to follow just because of that original conclusion? While I don't love trying to meta game like that, if I temporarily play ball and take your reads as true (that Ew and Traf would both prefer to not recruit and are therefore marginally more likely to be scum if we think scum chose not to recruit), would Traf not make more sense as a potential lynch? He's spent the entire game casting aspersions at people, but has steered clear of ever putting himself at risk by getting into the thick of things. I don't think it's very helpful as town to sit on a high horse and call any activity suspicious (when town needs to try stuff to gain information or lose by default without power roles), but it's very easy to do as scum and let's him keep his hands clean and float along by while still getting to indirectly influence lynches. As long as your scum buddy isn't in danger, you can keep doing that risk-free and come out looking good when you aren't ever involved in lynches that practically only scum could actually know are on townies. I don't think Traf is guaranteed scum by any means, but I do think he has played in a way that's not helpful (and at times actively unhelpful) to town, while being self-preserving in a fashion that fits what scum wants to achieve.

Just see this. Very nice post. Only logic - what a relief

[TrafalgarLaw01]

Here now - let's be super clear that jfm had no secret information or role and only voted for me as a revenge vote after I voted him. His only actual "reason" was that he thought Sonic was suspicious and decided we were connected (and therefore he had no choice to vote me instead of the primary person he found suspicious), conveniently ignoring the fact that my very first post was anti-sonic so I don't see much thought or research going into his gameplay. My reasons for voting him were clear and logical, nobody offered up any issues or objections to them at the time including jfm himself, and many people remaining were very eager to vote him (and lynch quickly at that.) Any sort of attempted coordinated lynch on me after the fact stemming from a small group of people strikes me as rather odd.

I'd also like to clarify something about the potential suspicions on Ew. From my understanding, it's based primarily on the player assumption that Ew would not want to recruit? All other arguments seem to follow just because of that original conclusion? While I don't love trying to meta game like that, if I temporarily play ball and take your reads as true (that Ew and Traf would both prefer to not recruit and are therefore marginally more likely to be scum if we think scum chose not to recruit), would Traf not make more sense as a potential lynch? He's spent the entire game casting aspersions at people, but has steered clear of ever putting himself at risk by getting into the thick of things. I don't think it's very helpful as town to sit on a high horse and call any activity suspicious (when town needs to try stuff to gain information or lose by default without power roles), but it's very easy to do as scum and let's him keep his hands clean and float along by while still getting to indirectly influence lynches. As long as your scum buddy isn't in danger, you can keep doing that risk-free and come out looking good when you aren't ever involved in lynches that practically only scum could actually know are on townies. I don't think Traf is guaranteed scum by any means, but I do think he has played in a way that's not helpful (and at times actively unhelpful) to town, while being self-preserving in a fashion that fits what scum wants to achieve.

I kinda agree with you. Unfortunatelly i don't ahve much to add. I still eblive the character given bears certain resposability at least based on the characters reveled dead, but it's mainly flavor and scum will not say their real artist if is a shaddy character.
I usually do no like to lynch D1 cause its mor elikely to hit town and not earn any info, And usually i get info on next days based on people dead:

But in this game has been tough. N2 Pixar died and it was an obvius choice as he was almost confirmed town.
Then on D2 King was modkilled, and jmf was lynched. So here there was more info

jfm (6) - kong, strike, EW, Charle, son!c, Max JFM HAS BEEN LYNCHED
Son!c (1) - jfm
Max (1) - Loose

I'm sure one of the people that voted for jfm is scum for sure.

Now I ahd a theory people that fast voted charle on D1 were suspicious as well.

That was Kong, Max and Loose. but Loose did not voted jmf.

So that leaves Kong and Max at the top of my scum list. i had asked you for your character cause as u see to me u are very suspicious.

But i agree I ahve not been very helpful so far

[Charle]

I kinda agree with you. Unfortunatelly i don't ahve much to add. I still eblive the character given bears certain resposability at least based on the characters reveled dead, but it's mainly flavor and scum will not say their real artist if is a shaddy character.
I usually do no like to lynch D1 cause its mor elikely to hit town and not earn any info, And usually i get info on next days based on people dead:

But in this game has been tough. N2 Pixar died and it was an obvius choice as he was almost confirmed town.
Then on D2 King was modkilled, and jmf was lynched. So here there was more info

jfm (6) - kong, strike, EW, Charle, son!c, Max JFM HAS BEEN LYNCHED
Son!c (1) - jfm
Max (1) - Loose

I'm sure one of the people that voted for jfm is scum for sure.

Now I ahd a theory people that fast voted charle on D1 were suspicious as well.

That was Kong, Max and Loose. but Loose did not voted jmf.

So that leaves Kong and Max at the top of my scum list. i had asked you for your character cause as u see to me u are very suspicious.

But i agree I ahve not been very helpful so far

Very good post Traf, thanks! It also explains why Max is on my case from the start, they would rather try to lynch a "confirmed townie" and find the jailkeeper by night kills.

[Loose Canon]

I don't know what Kong would look like as mafia.
My best guess is he'd be indistinguishable from Kong as town.
As town he has not been afraid to play the odd mafia looking gambit.
That might be what his vote on Charle was.
To me Kong in this game is indistinguishable from Kong as town.

When I played football as a kid and there were odd numbers I'd always prefer/try to be on the team with the lower number. I can call it fair play but it was actually selfish because I wanted to show off/get satisfaction from winning with the lower number team.
I think I still didn't like the unfair advantage element of Charle play and that made me receptive to vote placing on Charle D1. That and maybe an element of admiration of past gambit play by town, and an element of preferring the new bolder max, and there was also the max could have been recruited thing - it all combined for me to vote Charle.

Because max is an unknown quantity to me, and I didn't fancy the lynch on jfm, but still thought we had to lynch, and because everyone else I'd tried for D2 wasn't going to happen, I played the vote max gambit end of D2 rather than do nothing, even though no I didn't think the max vote would gain traction. The thing about a gambit is you still gain something from it - reaction.

[SoN!c]

I don't know what Kong would look like as mafia.
My best guess is he'd be indistinguishable from Kong as town.
As town he has not been afraid to play the odd mafia looking gambit.
That might be what his vote on Charle was.
To me Kong in this game is indistinguishable from Kong as town.

When I played football as a kid and there were odd numbers I'd always prefer/try to be on the team with the lower number. I can call it fair play but it was actually selfish because I wanted to show off/get satisfaction from winning with the lower number team.
I think I still didn't like the unfair advantage element of Charle play and that made me receptive to vote placing on Charle D1. That and maybe an element of admiration of past gambit play by town, and an element of preferring the new bolder max, and there was also the max could have been recruited thing - it all combined for me to vote Charle.

Because max is an unknown quantity to me, and I didn't fancy the lynch on jfm, but still thought we had to lynch, and because everyone else I'd tried for D2 wasn't going to happen, I played the vote max gambit end of D2 rather than do nothing, even though no I didn't think the max vote would gain traction. The thing about a gambit is you still gain something from it - reaction.

"Because max is an unknown quantity to me, and I didn't fancy the lynch on jfm, but still thought we had to lynch, and because everyone else I'd tried for D2 wasn't going to happen, I played the vote max gambit end of D2 rather than do nothing, even though no I didn't think the max vote would gain traction."

= very long sentence to say you knew town was gonna lynch JFM anyways = so your vote didn't matter and so you tried to vote Max "for a gambit???" but why really? You know Max.., did you really believe Max would have said something about you last minute voting him (assuming Max has no connection with you)?

Come on baby the laugh's on me We both know better.

The only reason i can come up with, ANYBODY CAN COME UP WITH, = that by placing that last second switch vote on Max you wanted to create distance between the two of you like "SEE IM VOTING MAX, IM NOT HIS SCUMBUDDY (and im not in the bandwagon on JFM do you all see that!! Do you all? Because im gonna use this the next day if i get into trouble"

Why else? It had 0 chance of turning into a lynch, and deadline was already set in stone, and with certain outcome sort of speak (with already 5 votes on JFM)... with JFM provoking his own lynch with the amount of "enemy within stuff" he produced.. (even the Mod posted that if i remember correctly so it's fair to say that was the general believe about JFM). So you (knowing JFM was town) voting Max just before deadline and not joining the bandwagon would be a smart scum thing to do no?

Because you already had some FoS on you for voting Charle quickly D1

So @Loose: if we are not talking about Loose, but Just talking the situation in general, in general would you not agree that that (somebody switching to Max instead of hammering JFM) would be a smart scum move?

[SoN!c]

"Users browsing this forum: Loose Canon"

Im seeing this for 60+ minutes now Loose...

[Loose Canon]

No sonic I wouldn't agree.
It was a move.

As scum at that point it would have been unnecessary and therefore dumb.
As town it was probably ineffective and therefore probably unnecessary and so still probably dumb.

But moves do elicit reactions - so dumb but not totally dumb as town.

[Loose Canon]

And I read it waiting for wife getting out of cinema and posted waiting for takeaway afterwards.

[SoN!c]

No sonic I wouldn't agree.
It was a move.

As scum at that point it would have been unnecessary and therefore dumb.
As town it was probably ineffective and therefore probably unnecessary and so still probably dumb.

But moves do elicit reactions - so dumb but not totally dumb as town.

Okay - nothing to see here then.. just "dumb". So you are dumb then loose? Is that really dumb or just super dumb?

[Loose Canon]

Thing is sonic, you chose to get deeply into a war of words with me today after I came down firmly and still do that Ew is my main play for today.

You may have had other reasons for doing so, but whatever your motivation is, it appears indistinguishable from throwing a smoke bomb, to divert from Ew.
So if Ew flips scum, you will appear indistinguishable from guilty too.

But heyho go_on you can have the last word on this.

[SoN!c]

Thing is sonic, you chose to get deeply into a war of words with me today after I came down firmly and still do that Ew is my main play for today.

You may have had other reasons for doing so, but whatever your motivation is, it appears indistinguishable from throwing a smoke bomb, to divert from Ew.
So if Ew flips scum, you will appear indistinguishable from guilty too.

But heyho go_on you can have the last word on this.

Thing is im 100% sure its you + 1 yet unknown.

And you have never even once answered any question i posed at you..

Why is that? Could you please answer the questions? You can start with the latest.

[SoN!c]

Thing is sonic, you chose to get deeply into a war of words with me today after I came down firmly and still do that Ew is my main play for today.

You may have had other reasons for doing so, but whatever your motivation is, it appears indistinguishable from throwing a smoke bomb, to divert from Ew.
So if Ew flips scum, you will appear indistinguishable from guilty too.

But heyho go_on you can have the last word on this.

Thing is sonic, you chose to get deeply into a war of words with me today after I came down firmly and still do that..

Why would you back down if you think its me for real? Because i ask questions you clearly don't want to answer? That is scum logic.

[Devante]

Just a heads up I'm travelling till Monday, we'll catch up on posts then

[Loose Canon]

Ok lets run the maths on not lynching EW or Sonic today because you have doubts on what I'm saying, BUT I'm actually right.

We have 8 players currently

Charle- almost certain town
EW - Determined No Recruit Strategy - Scum 1
Sonic - smokebombed today - Probable Scum 2
Loose - town but you don't know that
Dev - probable town
Kong - probable town
Traf - probable town
Max - probable town

6 town 2 scum currently,
we mislynch one of the town today and scum kills another tonight
Importantly the 2 town that die do not include EITHER detective OR 2 Jailkeepers

Tomorrow the 4 town that survive are perm any 4 of Charle, Loose, Dev, Kong, Traf, Max
It would need all 4 of the survivors to then lynch EW or Sonic - 3 is no good - so we'd need all 6 of Charle, Loose, Dev, Kong, Traf, Max onboard NOW.
If all 6 were onboard now we can afford a mislynch today - answering EWs earlier what if I'm wrong question, the other part of the answer to that is what if I'm right?

I'm looking mainly at Charle and Max on this, scum will want to leave the most likely not to be onboard still in the game.

[SoN!c]

Loose, you said you made a dumb move..Loose making dumb moves?? Hmmm fishy at best..And the thing is, by now you have made more dumb moves, like voting Charle at the start or placing the big Fos on Pixar just after he voted Max.. Very fishy?? Or just scum ofcourse. Because the amount of "so-called dumbness" is hilarious by now.

So the question is: did you made a lot of "dumb town moves" or did you made (smarter) scum moves? You tell me. And please start answering the questions. With logic. Not "sonic and EW are scum because they both called me buddy" or "EW is scum unless the cop reveals himself today and gives a signal he is not".

You actually said these things. Do you want me to quote them to help you remember ? I suppose the answer will be "those were dumb things to say yes, i was wrong, but now i have something better, EW is scum based on the sole fact he was Determined No Recruit Strategy "?

Sorry, but it's too funny. Who is your scumpartner anyways? Max?

[Extreme Ways]

Ok lets run the maths on not lynching EW or Sonic today because you have doubts on what I'm saying, BUT I'm actually right.

We have 8 players currently

Charle- almost certain town
EW - Determined No Recruit Strategy - Scum 1
Sonic - smokebombed today - Probable Scum 2
Loose - town but you don't know that
Dev - probable town
Kong - probable town
Traf - probable town
Max - probable town

6 town 2 scum currently,
we mislynch one of the town today and scum kills another tonight
Importantly the 2 town that die do not include EITHER detective OR 2 Jailkeepers

Tomorrow the 4 town that survive are perm any 4 of Charle, Loose, Dev, Kong, Traf, Max
It would need all 4 of the survivors to then lynch EW or Sonic - 3 is no good - so we'd need all 6 of Charle, Loose, Dev, Kong, Traf, Max onboard NOW.
If all 6 were onboard now we can afford a mislynch today - answering EWs earlier what if I'm wrong question, the other part of the answer to that is what if I'm right?

I'm looking mainly at Charle and Max on this, scum will want to leave the most likely not to be onboard still in the game.

If we have a cop, cop should out now because a mislynch = lose in that.

I'm wondering why you are harping so much on me saying I wouldnt recruit if I... could have just lied if I was scum? I'm not forced to say "nah, I wouldn't recruit. Btw in a couple days you'll find out that scum didn't recruit either!"

I'm also curious how you got to 4 probable towns. It seems like anybody who is against you is wolf...