Russian peacekeeping forces enter Ukraine

[Qwert]

To confederate ss.
You right in Victor side never anyone was prosecuted for war crimes . If Russia and Ukraine sign peace agreement that will be in Russia favor because Ukraine without support from west and US will not have other choice .

[saxitoxin]

to stop Russians killing Ukrainian civilians

Approximately 3,000 Ukrainian civilians have died in roughly a month since the start of the Russian special military action. In the first month of the U.S. invasion of Iraq, approximately 4,000 Iraqi civilians died. Either America was trying to "kill Iraqi civilians" or this is just the reality of war.

to stop Russians killing Ukrainian civilians

The population of Ukraine is 40 million. Approximately 3,000 Ukrainian civilians have died in roughly a month since the start of the Russian special military action, or about 0.02% of the population of Ukraine. Either the Russian armed forces are the most inefficient military force in world history or they aren't trying to kill Ukrainian civilians.

[bigtoughralf]

Ukraine's PM has now turned to Israel for support, citing Ukraine's and Israel's apparently shared lived experience of having neighbours who want to wipe them out.

Not mentioned in Zelsenky's speech: the residents of Palestine being actively displaced, attacked and killed by the Israeli government.

I guess civilian deaths still don't count when those civilians are brown.

[saxitoxin]

- There have been 107,000 Ukrainian civilians who have died of COVID-19. Biden's Public Health Aid to Ukraine = $0
- There have been 3,000 Ukrainian civilians who have died of Russians. Biden's Military Aid to Ukraine = $15,000,000,000

This isn't about protecting Ukrainians. This is about protecting EuroAmerican interests in Eastern Europe. This is about exaggerating the latest crisis to replace dissipating public interest in COVID-19 and shore-up the regime's flagging chances in the midterm elections.

[jusplay4fun]

Ok, and why west Europe and US dont react? West Europe and US hesitate and more and more civilians will die. Sending only javelines and stingers will only slow advantage of Russians ,will not stop the war. To much talk about love toward Ukraine and in the end Ukraine will be forced to make peace agreement with Russia , and will probably lose Doneck and Luhansk and Crimea in a way that will recognize these changes.
Everybody say Russia are aggressor and dont understand that siting from side and watch all these and dont do nothing then you also get part of responsibility for all what happening right now.

so what does the wise guy Qwert suggest? WW3 to stop Russians killing Ukrainian civilians? do you have an alternative, or mere rhetoric?

or do we wait for economic sanctions from Serbia to be used against pukin' putin?

I say from start that West and US dont care for Ukraine are you still not figure these yet? All these talks and so call aid in weapons its only for the show, for domestic audience to say that they are with Ukraine.
From 2014 to start of war they had plenty of time to prepare Ukraine Army and to give a lot of more military equipment from planes to tanks name it,, but from 2014 to 24 february 2022 that was business and Ukraine dont have money to buy all these great stuff for defense.

Whatever happened before the invasion of some 4 weeks ago is "water over the dam"; we cannot get a re-do. What we do going forward in time is what matters now. Re-hashing what "should have been" or "what we should have done" can be left to historical debates and discussions; that will NOT HELP Ukraine NOW.

I disagree with Qwert in that weapons aid to Ukraine is NOT JUST

only for the show

Ask the Russian crews whose tanks were destroyed by Javelin weapons given to Ukraine.

Switchblade Drones, Javelins, Stingers, More: Here Are The Weapons Ukraine Is Getting From The U.S. And Others

Here’s a list of the major U.S. weapons—and key contributions from other countries—pledged to Ukraine in its war against Russia, including the $800 million worth of military equipment promised Thursday by President Joe Biden.

Switchblade drones: The Biden Administration said Wednesday it will send 100 “Tactical Unmanned Aerial Systems” to Ukraine, and several outlets reported the systems are Switchblade drones, a notorious and secretive weapon known as a kamikaze drone or killer drone that fly at its target then detonates.

Stingers: The shipment will also include 20 million rounds of ammunition and 800 Stinger anti-aircraft missiles, which can be shoulder-fired or as part of larger systems, and Germany sent 500 Stingers as part of the European Union’s $500 million lethal weapons purchase to Ukraine—the first time the EU ever supplied weapons for a country at war.

Javelins: The U.S. said Wednesday it will send 2,000 Javelin anti-tank missiles and 7,000 more anti-armor weapons, adding to the 2,600 shoulder-launched Javelins already sent to Ukraine by the U.S. and at least 15,000 more anti-tank missiles sent by other allies, including anti-tank systems from Sweden and 4,000 anti-tank missiles from the United Kingdom.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/dereksaul/ ... c2e0cc7bdf

Ukraine’s Use Of Stinger And Javelin Missiles Is Outstripping U.S. Production (Forbes)

Arming Ukraine: 17,000 Anti-Tank Weapons in 6 Days and a Clandestine Cybercorps (New York Times)

[Qwert]

Well for West and US are least painful to send stingers and javelins probably they see that its only option who can pass public approval .
I just dont know how much Ukraine have soldiers to operated with all these missiles .
I only see main problem if Russian manage to cut and encircled most experience Ukrainian troops on Donbas front, these could decide war much faster.

[bigtoughralf]

Would people in this thread rather:
- West pours weapons into Ukraine, extending conflict
- West stops giving weapons to Ukraine, shortening war?

[jusplay4fun]

Well for West and US are least painful to send stingers and javelins probably they see that its only option who can pass public approval .
I just dont know how much Ukraine have soldiers to operated with all these missiles .
I only see main problem if Russian manage to cut and encircled most experience Ukrainian troops on Donbas front, these could decide war much faster.

A few points in response:

1) It took Nazi Germany about one month to defeat the main Polish forces at the start of WW2; Ukraine has lasted about as long vs. pukin' putin and his Nazi-style attack.

2) And you. Qwert, do not see any good troops defending Kyiv?

3) From what I know of Javelins, they are not like flying a jet fighter; the skills needed to aim and shoot is, well, aim and shoot. Not as simple as a gun, but apparently, easy enough where Ukrainian fighters are knocking out Russian tanks and armor.

As someone who carried it and used it in Iraq. It is probably the best Infantry operated anti tank weapon out there. While it doesn't have the range of the TOW it is fire and forget and simple to use and in a combat situation with a capable crew (gunner and assistant) the gunner can fire the missile off accurately with only being exposed for a few seconds. It is also good in that it does not use a laser range finder which can tip off a modern tank that it is being targeted. Its also built for beating reactive armor and will kill anything from a BRDM to a T-90 (dont know about the tanks that have come out since I got out)

https://www.quora.com/How-effective-is- ... in-missile

and more, same source:

This is a T72MB, one of the more advanced Russian tanks, although these days that just means it moves.

The blast that destroyed this tank also took out the wire roof cage, which suggests it was hit from above, the signature of the Javelin missile. Those cages were added to protect the tanks from Javelins. You can see how well that worked.

Russia has five times as many tanks as Ukraine, so mostly this won’t be a war of tank versus tank, but a battle between tanks and antitank weapons. The Javilin and the NLAW are the pick of those weapons.

and more:

This is a T-72 main battle tank which was hit by a single Javelin missile. See the twisted remains of a cage structure at the top of the turret? That was intended to prevent a Javelin (which dives down vertically from above and impacts directly atop the tank) from detonating in the optimal location. Clearly, it made little or no difference. Javelins are incredibly potent man-portable anti-tank weapons.

Go to the URL to see the damage done to the Russian tanks, if you dare......

and one more:

Is the USA afraid of sending Javelin Missiles to Ukraine because the rebels might capture them and Russia might find out how they're designed?
Obviously, the USA is not afraid, as it provided Javelin missiles to Ukraine in 2018, and Ukrainian soldiers started training on them immediately. The missiles were quietly fielded in 2020, and this was confirmed by Ukraine’s Joint Forces Operation commander in December 2021.

FGM-148 Javelin antitank missiles are battlefield weapons for infantry soldiers on the front line, issued at the section (squad) or platoon level. They’re not ICBMs to be hoarded as a deterrent, nor some top state secret to be hidden in a vault. They are to be at hand and used when necessary. Since they are already fielded by twenty states and used in a half dozen conflicts, Russian intelligence services have had plenty of opportunities to acquire one for analysis.

The main reason the United States gave them as defensive military aid and sold them to Ukraine is as a show of commitment and support, to deter new Russian offensives. If the Kremlin knows the USA has some skin in the game, it might think twice about the open-ended potential of escalating its war in Europe. If deterrence works, then of course the Russians won’t get their hands on any of them on the battlefield.

The second reason is in case diplomacy fails, and the Russians escalate their invasion of Ukraine. Then well-trained, highly motivated, and combat hardened Ukrainian soldiers would be quite happy to have more missiles, including this highly portable top-attack weapon that can defeat the recently upgraded T-90M tanks. And conscript Ivan’s girlfriend and mother back in Zhoposransk, Siberia, will be very unhappy.

As Putin marshals thousands of tanks with new anti-Javelin parasol armour in and around Ukraine in December 2021, the latter scenario is starting to look more possible.

So Javelin missiles are now confirmed to be in the field With Ukrainian forces.

[jusplay4fun]

Ok, and why west Europe and US dont react? West Europe and US hesitate and more and more civilians will die. Sending only javelines and stingers will only slow advantage of Russians ,will not stop the war. To much talk about love toward Ukraine and in the end Ukraine will be forced to make peace agreement with Russia , and will probably lose Doneck and Luhansk and Crimea in a way that will recognize these changes.
Everybody say Russia are aggressor and dont understand that siting from side and watch all these and dont do nothing then you also get part of responsibility for all what happening right now.

so what does the wise guy Qwert suggest? WW3 to stop Russians killing Ukrainian civilians? do you have an alternative, or mere rhetoric?

or do we wait for economic sanctions from Serbia to be used against pukin' putin?

I say from start that West and US dont care for Ukraine are you still not figure these yet? All these talks and so call aid in weapons its only for the show, for domestic audience to say that they are with Ukraine.
From 2014 to start of war they had plenty of time to prepare Ukraine Army and to give a lot of more military equipment from planes to tanks name it,, but from 2014 to 24 february 2022 that was business and Ukraine dont have money to buy all these great stuff for defense.

Part of the dilemma in dealing with the cruel despot I now call pukin' putin (and the Butcher of Ukraine) was:

1) If we (in the West) give more weapons to Ukraine, is that seen as provocation to the Russians? (I did document that the US and the West provided Javelin missiles starting in 2018 as a DEFENSIVE weapon.)

2) How much should President Zelenskyy try to build the defense of Ukraine? He failed to call up and activate his reserves until after the invasion started. Again, how much do a prepare and have it viewed as an act of aggression.

3) How much rhetoric did and should Zelenskyy use before the invasion? A few days before the actual invasion, he tried to reassure (apparently) his people and the West that pukin' putin was NOT going to invade, despite the MASSIVE build up of Russian troops on THREE borders of Ukraine.

[saxitoxin]

To Protect Democracy, We Must Outlaw Democracy!

Today, Uke pres Zelenskyy banned 11 political parties, one of which holds 10% of the elected seats in Ukraine's parliament, for expressing opinions with which he disagreed. Several of the banned parties were expected to mount candidates to challenge Zelenskyy in his next election. Banning anyone from running against you is a lot less effort than stuffing the ballot boxes.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 333402.cms

[HitRed]

Satellite photo Ukrainian Lviv airfield on Friday. The warplanes are lined up neatly after 3 weeks of war. There is a crater between the warplanes and the transports from a Russian missile attack earlier that day.

[jusplay4fun]

What Happened on Day 24 of Russia’s Invasion of Ukraine
A study concluded that Russia has lost its initial campaign and does not have the weapons or manpower to seize Kyiv.
Published March 19, 2022
Updated March 20, 2022, 5:54 p.m. ET

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/03/19 ... russia-war

same source as above:

Russian forces made significant gains in Ukraine on Saturday, advancing into the besieged port of Mariupol, destroying an underground weapons depot in the west and leaving a marine barracks in ruins following one of the deadliest rocket strikes on Ukraine’s military in the nearly month-old war.

As the fighting raged, Ukraine faced a worsening humanitarian crisis, and military losses mounted on both sides. A senior Ukrainian military official said on Saturday that the strike on the barracks, which happened Friday in the southern city of Mykolaiv, had killed more than 40 marines.

Ukrainians continue to take casualties and destruction of their country.

And the US and the West continues to hurt the economy of Russia:

Economic shock and awe: The strategy behind the economic sanctions against Russia

To better understand the Biden administration's strategy, we spoke with veterans of financial warfare against Iran and North Korea and the White House official who designed the current plan to batter nearly every facet of Russia's economy.

On the first day of the war in Ukraine, it wasn't a general who briefed reporters at the White House. It was Daleep Singh.

Singh at February 24 briefing: Good to see all of you again, but this is a briefing I never wanted to give.

Singh is the deputy national security adviser for international economics, credited with designing the sanctions that Putin, himself, described as "economic blitzkrieg."

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/russia-eco ... 022-03-20/


And saxi continues to agree with me, as he continues to use this signature line:

JP4F wrote:
saxi, the Russian Troll and thus the supporter of the Butcher of Ukraine

I need not say more; saxi captured the main points.

[Dukasaur]

Would people in this thread rather:
- West pours weapons into Ukraine, extending conflict
- West stops giving weapons to Ukraine, shortening war?

Given that Putin's long-term goals are to reconquer all of the Soviet Union's lost territories, every extra day that it takes him to conquer Ukraine is a day that Latvia, Tadjikistan, Armenia, etc., have to prepare.

In WW II, although a lot of nations fell quickly to Hitler, even the short delays they afforded saved others. The time lost subduing Norway has been credited as reverbrating in the victory in the Battle of Britain. A few short weeks meant 50 more Spitfires off the production line. The time lost subduing Yugoslavia and Greece has been credited with preventing total Russian collapse in the initial onslaught of 1941.

Although I don't expect the conventional war in Ukraine to last forever, I'm hoping that there is a long and bitter insurgency which will keep Putin tied up for the rest of his life. Estonia may remain free in the end.

[Qwert]

First of all, we dont know deployment of Russian troops .(how much numbers are deployed on North,East .South)
My opinion that most of Ukrainian experience troops hold Doneck Luhansk front. and like Russian i dont know how much Ukraine have experience soldiers and how are they deployed. Its could be that mostly experience soldiers are under siege in Mariupol soon to be eliminated consider that Government in Kyev decline surrender of these troops.
Everything what i see or what its presented to me its informacions from West , what i see on internet again all news say that Russian army are morale are low, they surrender on masses have huge casualty . Last news what i see its that Ukrainian destroyed entire elite Russian unit of 2000 solders with 200 armor vehicles .
So what are true and what are propaganda?

[saxitoxin]

every extra day that it takes him to conquer Ukraine is a day that Latvia, Tadjikistan, Armenia, etc., have to prepare

I can hardly wait to see how the "WE MUST DEFEND DEMOCRACY" crowd mobilizes the snowflakes to come to the aid of Tajikistan's 30 years in power dictator who spends half the country's budget building monuments to himself.

Then again, in the name of democracy, they got them to back a president (Zelenskyy) who just banned the opposition parties and whose soldiers wear literal Nazi insignia, so clearly anything's possible.

[bigtoughralf]

every extra day that it takes him to conquer Ukraine is a day that Latvia, Tadjikistan, Armenia, etc., have to prepare

I can hardly wait to see how the "WE MUST DEFEND DEMOCRACY" crowd mobilizes the snowflakes to come to the aid of Tajikistan's 30 years in power dictator who spends half the country's budget building monuments to himself.

Central Asians still look kinda like white people tbf.

[mookiemcgee]

30 years in power dictator who spends half the country's budget building monuments to himself.

Sounds alot like Putin to me

[saxitoxin]

30 years in power dictator who spends half the country's budget building monuments to himself.

Sounds alot like Putin to me

Actually, there's not a single monument to Vladimir Putin anywhere in the Russian Federation except for a short street in Grozny named Vladimir Putin Avenue by the Chechen regional government. What's more, Putin has not received a single honorary doctorate from a Russian university (he's received nine from foreign universities). He has also not received a single civilian decoration of the Russian Federation since being president (unlike the leaders of many countries, including the USA).

He doesn't want your love. He doesn't need your awards. He's not interested in how history books will write about him.

Putin is here to get shit done for Russia. And when he's decided he's done enough, then he'll just stop breathing.

Americans can never understand him since their leaders are all Celubiticians. They had a chance to be ruled by an ascetic - Ralph Nader - and decided they wanted someone vapid and flashy; an Obama, a Trump, etc.

[mookiemcgee]

30 years in power dictator who spends half the country's budget building monuments to himself.

Sounds alot like Putin to me

Actually, there's not a single monument to Vladimir Putin anywhere in the Russian Federation except for a short street in Grozny named Vladimir Putin Avenue by the Chechen regional government. What's more, Putin has not received a single honorary doctorate from a Russian university (he's received nine from foreign universities). He has also not received a single civilian decoration of the Russian Federation since being president (unlike the leaders of many countries, including the USA).

He doesn't want your love. He doesn't need your awards. He's not interested in how history books will write about him.

Putin is here to get shit done for Russia. And when he's decided he's done enough, then he'll just stop breathing.

Americans can never understand him since their leaders are all Celubiticians. They had a chance to be ruled by an ascetic - Ralph Nader - and decided they wanted someone vapid and flashy; an Obama, a Trump, etc.

...no refutation of being a dictator for 30 years

[bigtoughralf]

someone vapid and flashy; an Obama, a Trump, etc.

Uh oh.

[jusplay4fun]

Saxi is again RIGHT; he said:L

Putin is here to get shit done for Russia.

That is what he did for Russia: SHIT.

And saxi knows shit; after all, saxi agreed with me that he himself is FULL of SHIT.

[jusplay4fun]

30 years in power dictator who spends half the country's budget building monuments to himself.

Sounds alot like Putin to me

Actually, there's not a single monument to Vladimir Putin anywhere in the Russian Federation except for a short street in Grozny named Vladimir Putin Avenue by the Chechen regional government. What's more, Putin has not received a single honorary doctorate from a Russian university (he's received nine from foreign universities). He has also not received a single civilian decoration of the Russian Federation since being president (unlike the leaders of many countries, including the USA).

He doesn't want your love. He doesn't need your awards. He's not interested in how history books will write about him.

Putin is here to get shit done for Russia. And when he's decided he's done enough, then he'll just stop breathing.

Americans can never understand him since their leaders are all Celubiticians. They had a chance to be ruled by an ascetic - Ralph Nader - and decided they wanted someone vapid and flashy; an Obama, a Trump, etc.

saxi is wrong AGAIN: Nader did not run against Trump; he only ran against Obama ONCE.

Nader made four bids to become President of the United States, running with the Green Party in 1996 and 2000, the Reform Party in 2004, and as an independent in 2008. In each campaign, Nader said he sought to highlight under-reported issues and a perceived need for electoral reform. He received nearly 3 million votes during his 2000 candidacy, but also stirred controversy over allegations that his campaign helped Republican candidate George W. Bush win a close election against Democratic candidate Al Gore.

Further, pukin' putin will not get any Love from America or Americans (except the putin fan club started by saxi; ralf and saxi are the only two members on the CC chapter). And the only award he will get in America is "the man most like Hitler" Award given last to saxitoxin, Pre-COVID in 2019.

[saxitoxin]

Saxi is again RIGHT; he said:L

Putin is here to get shit done for Russia.

That is what he did for Russia: SHIT.

• - Since Putin was first installed as president, there has been a 585% increase in Russia's GDP; in the USA in the same period it's increased 75%
  
  - Russian public debt is 19.8% of GDP; USA public debt is 134% of GDP
  
  - Since Putin became president, Russia expanded with the new territory of Crimea; in the same period, the USA contracted after it surrendered the Panama Canal Zone
  
  - Since Putin became president, life expectancy has increased 11% (from 66 years to 73 years); in the same period, in the USA, it's increased only 3% (from 77 years to 79 years)

If that's SHIT, I wish someone would do SHIT for the United States.

[saxitoxin]

30 years in power dictator who spends half the country's budget building monuments to himself.

Sounds alot like Putin to me

Actually, there's not a single monument to Vladimir Putin anywhere in the Russian Federation except for a short street in Grozny named Vladimir Putin Avenue by the Chechen regional government. What's more, Putin has not received a single honorary doctorate from a Russian university (he's received nine from foreign universities). He has also not received a single civilian decoration of the Russian Federation since being president (unlike the leaders of many countries, including the USA).

He doesn't want your love. He doesn't need your awards. He's not interested in how history books will write about him.

Putin is here to get shit done for Russia. And when he's decided he's done enough, then he'll just stop breathing.

Americans can never understand him since their leaders are all Celubiticians. They had a chance to be ruled by an ascetic - Ralph Nader - and decided they wanted someone vapid and flashy; an Obama, a Trump, etc.

...no refutation of being a dictator for 30 years

30 years ago Putin was Deputy Mayor of Saint Petersburg

Is Randy Biggs, the Deputy Mayor of Akron, a vicious dictator threatening world peace? ↓

[saxitoxin]

Best Putin moment was when he brought a giant dog to his meeting with Merkel. It wasn't even his dog, he just went and got a dog and had it wander around. Then, to top it off, he dismissed his translator and started speaking to Merkel in fluent German. Up until that point no one had even known he was a German speaker. (Now, of course, it's common knowledge.)



Then, later that afternoon, shrieking topless female attackers rushed him and all he did was smile and point at their breasts. Didn't even flinch! Man is a complete Chad.



OH YEAH, and the changing of the guard at the Kremlin Arsenal is far superior to the guard mounting at Buckingham Palace.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piN9ZwoozD8&t=289s

And in terms of late 2000s pop stars, Dima Bilan murders Justin Timberlake.