One officer ≠ US police.

[spurgistan]

Resisting arrest isn't a capital offense, dude. A man running away with a taser is not...
... a threat to anybody's immediate safety - the only reason to use deadly force.

Define “immediate”... because depending on how you define that I may agree or disagree.

I’m not saying the death was good or justified... at the same time, why did the guy resist?
I’m not saying the police were right, but...
... if he hadn’t gone drinking and driving he’d be alive today.
(BTW, a drunk driver is an immediate threat to people’s safety.)
... if he hadn’t resisted arrest he’d be alive today.
... if he hadn’t stolen the officer’s taser AND fired it at the officer he’s be alive today.

I think there’s a lot of ‘blame’ to go around. Most of those decisions (on both sides) were made into the moment.
Though the first, the guy choosing to drink and drive, was premeditated.

Also, we shouldn't need to have ride alongs, we should have a new system of policing that leads from the community instead of basically being occupation tactics. This. Isn't. Working.

A lot of people say things like “community policing”... I’ve yet to hear someone describe how it’s different than our current system... or how it would work in the real world of a major American city.

LEOs are supposed to have training. It shouldn't be decisions made in the moment, it should be trained that a taser is by definition not something that poses an immediate threat to the life of the officer, and so cannot be responded to with lethal force. Not even that, blame the series of events that led to that, starting with calling the cops on a sleeping black man. Drunk drivers are behaving irrationally by definition. You can't expect the drunk driver to have a cool head.

Sorry about the community policing thing, thought you could Google. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_policing

[mrswdk]

In a discussion about whether or not the police should use lethal force in various situations:

Assholes f*ck with my family, they're dying.

I refer you back to my point about the Freudian minefield of his posts.

I’m sorry... If someone fucks with my family and I have opportunity to kill them. they’re dead.

i agree with KB.

I might not kill someone who stole something... but some guy abuses my daughter... he’s dead.

One for you and one for KB. Since you replied most recently I'l let you pick first:

[jimboston]

LEOs are supposed to have training. It shouldn't be decisions made in the moment, it should be trained that a taser is by definition not something that poses an immediate threat to the life of the officer, and so cannot be responded to with lethal force. Not even that, blame the series of events that led to that, starting with calling the cops on a sleeping black man. Drunk drivers are behaving irrationally by definition. You can't expect the drunk driver to have a cool head.

Sorry about the community policing thing, thought you could Google. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_policing

No matter how much training you have... when things happen on the street decisions are made in-the-moment.
There’s not amount of training that can provide solutions for every situation... and even if a specific situation is covered, when shit starts happening training helps but you’re still reacting.

Have you ever been in a dangerous situation, like a real street fight?
Or even played a sport where you had to do significant training?

Regarding your bolder comment... wtf do you mean?
Are you saying the police shouldn’t have been called?

The guy was passed out in the drivers seat of his running car in line at a drive thru!
He was drunk driving and stopped to get a burger and passed out.
It wasn’t like he was parked and his car was off.

Read the story...watch the video.

[mrswdk]

There’s not amount of training that can provide solutions for every situation... and even if a specific situation is covered, when shit starts happening training helps but you’re still reacting.

In most of the civilized world, the police kill <2 people per 10million per year. In the US that figure is 47 people per 10million:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_k ... by_country

So the police in Mexico (a country where the authorities are in a near-constant pitched battle with vicious drug smuggling cartels), Iraq (a country that is still a borderline failed state full of suicide bombers and militias) and Egypt (a country known for its police brutality and repression) kill fewer people than the US police do. How do you explain that?

[2dimes]

In most of the civilized world, the police kill <2 people per 10million per year. In the US that figure is 47 people per 10million:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_k ... by_country

So the police in Mexico (a country where the authorities are in a near-constant pitched battle with vicious drug smuggling cartels), Iraq (a country that is still a borderline failed state full of suicide bombers and militias) and Egypt (a country known for its police brutality and repression) kill fewer people than the US police do. How do you explain that?

It was kind of obvious but still it's interesting to see you write out that you prefer rampant crime from drug cartels and suicide bombers to Saxi's hard policies against criminals.

[mrswdk]

lolwut

[2dimes]

You wrote about the police in Mexico being ineffective against drug cartels and not being able to kill enough of them to equal 0.00047% of the population per year.

47 per 10,000,000 per year.

Saxi would ramp that way up if he could. Those criminal organizations would run out of guys PDQ if he was in charge.

Every officer would be trained to respond like detectives A. Foly. M. Riggs and H. Callahan.

[mookiemcgee]

You wrote about the police in Mexico being ineffective against drug cartels and not being able to kill enough of them to equal 0.00047% of the population per year.

47 per 10,000,000 per year.

Saxi would ramp that way up if he could. Those criminal organizations would run out of guys PDQ if he was in charge.

Every officer would be trained to respond like detectives A. Foly. M. Riggs and H. Callahan.

Pretty sure Mexican police and the cartels are basically different branches of the same organization at this point. Cartels do the murdering, police do the extorting. The Mexican army/federal forces are the one that will go toe to toe with the cartels.

[2dimes]

Possibly, yet... That is one of the examples mr swdk specifically named in the post.

It certainly looks like he prefers them to the US police.

When I pointed that out, he became uncomfortable and could only respond.

lolwut

[ConfederateSS]

In a discussion about whether or not the police should use lethal force in various situations:

Assholes f*ck with my family, they're dying.

I refer you back to my point about the Freudian minefield of his posts.

I’m sorry... If someone fucks with my family and I have opportunity to kill them. they’re dead.

i agree with KB.

I might not kill someone who stole something... but some guy abuses my daughter... he’s dead.

------------Now ,you understand...The War Between the States... .For most fighting...for the SOUTH...It was Yankees down SOUTH...In their backyard...Killing civilians....not the politics involved..
..Where LEE...made it a point not to attack civilians.when he went North..The North made killing civilians an art form....when they went SOUTH... ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion)...

[mrswdk]

You wrote about the police in Mexico being ineffective against drug cartels and not being able to kill enough of them to equal 0.00047% of the population per year.

Erm, no I wasn't saying 'isn't it great how efficient American police are at murdering civilians'. I was saying that the police in America kill more people than a police force that is in open warfare against violent drug cartels* and that this reflects badly on American police.

*or the police force in a country ridden with terrorists and militias, or a country with an international reputation for brutal police repression, or a country that is under regular attack from al-Shabab, or a country that had a civil war and split in two just a few years ago, etc.

[2dimes]

Well, I'll let Saxi explain how they should deal with the cartels. I bet it's not by defunding the police anywhere soon.

[mookiemcgee]

I fully support Mexico de-funding it's police. Maybe this is an idea all Americans can come together around?

[2dimes]

I fully support Mexico de-funding it's police.

Wouldn't they just self fund off tourists?

[mrswdk]

Well, I'll let Saxi explain how they should deal with the cartels. I bet it's not by defunding the police anywhere soon.

I don’t even know what defunding the police means.

[2dimes]

Direct the money they used to get somewhere else. Close departments and lay off staff.

[jimboston]

There’s not amount of training that can provide solutions for every situation... and even if a specific situation is covered, when shit starts happening training helps but you’re still reacting.

In most of the civilized world, the police kill <2 people per 10million per year. In the US that figure is 47 people per 10million:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_k ... by_country

So the police in Mexico (a country where the authorities are in a near-constant pitched battle with vicious drug smuggling cartels), Iraq (a country that is still a borderline failed state full of suicide bombers and militias) and Egypt (a country known for its police brutality and repression) kill fewer people than the US police do. How do you explain that?

Why isn’t China on that list? There must be no deaths by security forces!

Oh wait, that’s a lie. They probably just don’t report anything.
(Which is also why this stats are useless to compare to Mexico, because you’re relying on honest reporting.)

... what about deaths soto starvation, crime, other social ills?

These statistics are meaningless out of context.

I’d rather live in a country where police killed 50 for every 10,000,000... but was otherwise relatively safe;
than in a country with rampant crime, war, disease, hunger, etc... and where criminals killed way more than 50/10,000,000.

[jimboston]

In a discussion about whether or not the police should use lethal force in various situations:

Assholes f*ck with my family, they're dying.

I refer you back to my point about the Freudian minefield of his posts.

I’m sorry... If someone fucks with my family and I have opportunity to kill them. they’re dead.

i agree with KB.

I might not kill someone who stole something... but some guy abuses my daughter... he’s dead.

------------Now ,you understand...The War Between the States... .For most fighting...for the SOUTH...It was Yankees down SOUTH...In their backyard...Killing civilians....not the politics involved..
..Where LEE...made it a point not to attack civilians.when he went North..The North made killing civilians an art form....when they went SOUTH... ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion)...

Read your history.

The Yankees didn’t go out of their way to harm civilian property later in the war... when they realized that is what it would take to “win”. They still never went out of their way to kill civilians, not anymore than most armies do when fighting an aggressive/offensive war on land owned by ‘the enemy’.

... also it was a ‘winning tactic’ whether you liked it or not... ‘Sherman’s March to the Sea’ was one of the reasons the North won.

As I’ve said before, if Lee was smarter and fought a “hit and run” more-guerilla like war, maybe the South would have a chance.
Too bad Lee wasn’t half the general that Confederate Apologists like yourself clam he was.

[mrswdk]

There’s not amount of training that can provide solutions for every situation... and even if a specific situation is covered, when shit starts happening training helps but you’re still reacting.

In most of the civilized world, the police kill <2 people per 10million per year. In the US that figure is 47 people per 10million:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_k ... by_country

So the police in Mexico (a country where the authorities are in a near-constant pitched battle with vicious drug smuggling cartels), Iraq (a country that is still a borderline failed state full of suicide bombers and militias) and Egypt (a country known for its police brutality and repression) kill fewer people than the US police do. How do you explain that?

Why isn’t China on that list?

Whataboutism, also known as whataboutery, is a variant of the tu quoque logical fallacy that attempts to discredit an opponent's position by charging them with hypocrisy without directly refuting or disproving their argument. Whataboutism is particularly associated with Soviet and Russian propaganda.

Source

[jimboston]

There’s not amount of training that can provide solutions for every situation... and even if a specific situation is covered, when shit starts happening training helps but you’re still reacting.

In most of the civilized world, the police kill <2 people per 10million per year. In the US that figure is 47 people per 10million:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_k ... by_country

So the police in Mexico (a country where the authorities are in a near-constant pitched battle with vicious drug smuggling cartels), Iraq (a country that is still a borderline failed state full of suicide bombers and militias) and Egypt (a country known for its police brutality and repression) kill fewer people than the US police do. How do you explain that?

Why isn’t China on that list?

Whataboutism, also known as whataboutery, is a variant of the tu quoque logical fallacy that attempts to discredit an opponent's position by charging them with hypocrisy without directly refuting or disproving their argument. Whataboutism is particularly associated with Soviet and Russian propaganda.

Source

Except that you deleted the rest of my post that did provide logical contradictions.

Also, wha about China?

[mrswdk]

China is irrelevant. This is a thread about US police.

Going back to your 'contradictions':

I’d rather live in a country where police killed 50 for every 10,000,000... but was otherwise relatively safe
than in a country with rampant crime, war, disease, hunger, etc... and where criminals killed way more than 50/10,000,000.

The homicide rate in the US is higher than Somalia, a country known for being basically the world's best example of a failed state wracked by al-Shabab militants, poverty, hunger and crime:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... icide_rate

And before you say it, that's according to official WHO estimates of homicides in Somalia not local official data.

[Dukasaur]

In B4 saxi posts something derogatory about the WHO.

[saxitoxin]

All WHO staff are Satanic pedophiles.

[saxitoxin]

In B4 saxi posts something derogatory about the WHO.

f*ck

[Dukasaur]