Egypt: Valley Of The Kings [Quenched]

cairnswk · Post by **cairnswk** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 12:26 am

unriggable wrote:Is there a large version?

cairnswk · Post by **cairnswk** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 12:29 am

yeti_c wrote:Nice work Cairns.

C.

Thanks Yeti_C

Wisse · Post by **Wisse** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 4:51 am

also one with xml?

cairnswk · Post by **cairnswk** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 5:54 am

Wisse wrote:also one with xml?

Yeh...thanks Wisse...xml not quite done yet.
Will post an army 88 version when available.

DiM · Post by **DiM** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 8:23 am

cairns, could you make the Sa symbol a little smaller? at the moment it is much larger than all the other underworld symbols. and by making it smaller you can place it vertical like the others instead of diagonal.

gimil · Post by **gimil** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 11:08 am

One of the underworld symbols is smaller than the rest.

And while i was looking at it i realised the amente arnt named when playing will they be named by which continent like region A amente?

DiM · Post by **DiM** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 12:48 pm

gimil wrote:And while i was looking at it i realised the amente arnt named when playing will they be named by which continent like region A amente?

they will be named amente A; amente B....

gimil · Post by **gimil** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 1:16 pm

i see. well that sounds fine

cairnswk · Post by **cairnswk** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 1:31 pm

DiM wrote:cairns, could you make the Sa symbol a little smaller? at the moment it is much larger than all the other underworld symbols. and by making it smaller you can place it vertical like the others instead of diagonal.

Done DiM....next post in the morning!

cairnswk · Post by **cairnswk** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 4:02 pm

DiM wrote:cairns, could you make the Sa symbol a little smaller? at the moment it is much larger than all the other underworld symbols. and by making it smaller you can place it vertical like the others instead of diagonal.

As promised, DiM

Qwert · Post by **Qwert** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 6:12 pm

you have 1 bonus mistake zone E have 10 terittory and worth same like two who have 9 terittory.

cairnswk · Post by **cairnswk** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 6:42 pm

qwert wrote:you have 1 bonus mistake zone E have 10 terittory and worth same like two who have 9 terittory.

Hi qwert...thanks for commenting.

Zone E actually has 11 territories because the Amente is required for that region.

Below is the spreadsheet calcuations on WM's spreadsheet...and the new bonuses thereunder.

The bonuses actually are 1 less than what the spreadsheet says, as I have taken 1 bonuses from each region and transferred it to the Underworld token bonus...just for mixup on gameplay.

And Afterlife has an extra 2 bonus points to make it worthwhile holding it.

Xyl · Post by **Xyl** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 4:52 am

cairnswk wrote:
qwert wrote:you have 1 bonus mistake zone E have 10 terittory and worth same like two who have 9 terittory.

Hi qwert...thanks for commenting.

Zone E actually has 11 territories because the Amente is required for that region.

Below is the spreadsheet calcuations on WM's spreadsheet...and the new bonuses thereunder.

The bonuses actually are 1 less than what the spreadsheet says, as I have taken 1 bonuses from each region and transferred it to the Underworld token bonus...just for mixup on gameplay.

And Afterlife has an extra 2 bonus points to make it worthwhile holding it.

Region D has 3 territories that need to be defended (Robber D1, Thutmose I, Amente D). It should be worth the same as the other continents.

To calculate the value of a continent that requires another continent as a prerequisite (such as the underworld tokens), calculate the value of the whole thing including BOTH areas, and then subtract the value of the prerequisite continent to get the value of the additional area. Alternately, for the underworld tokens you could just set their value at 1 or 2, calculate the value of the entire region including the token, and subtract the value of the token to get the value of the region without the token. For the ankh, you could try calculating the difference for each underworld with and without the ankh - it borders a lot of territories so it should be worth something. I really think its tactical value is enough that it doesn't need a bonus, though.

cairnswk · Post by **cairnswk** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 5:16 am

Xyl wrote:Region D has 3 territories that need to be defended (Robber D1, Thutmose I, Amente D). It should be worth the same as the other continents.

Oh S@#t..I stuffed that one up..let me have another go!
Thanks Xyl.

cairnswk · Post by **cairnswk** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 5:52 am

Xyl wrote:To calculate the value of a continent that requires another continent as a prerequisite (such as the underworld tokens), calculate the value of the whole thing including BOTH areas, and then subtract the value of the prerequisite continent to get the value of the additional area. Alternately, for the underworld tokens you could just set their value at 1 or 2, calculate the value of the entire region including the token, and subtract the value of the token to get the value of the region without the token. For the ankh, you could try calculating the difference for each underworld with and without the ankh - it borders a lot of territories so it should be worth something. I really think its tactical value is enough that it doesn't need a bonus, though.

Xyl...below are the new calculations...and yes i took one from the regions and gave it to the Underworld. As you pointed out, the Ankh has been downsized to 1 bonus for each region held because of its strategic placement.

Xyl · Post by **Xyl** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 5:42 pm

cairnswk wrote:
Xyl...below are the new calculations...and yes i took one from the regions and gave it to the Underworld. As you pointed out, the Ankh has been downsized to 1 bonus for each region held because of its strategic placement.

Having all the bonuses be the same feels weird, but since each region is basically just as defensible as each other region, it actually makes sense. Okay, I'm out of suggestions. Looks good to me. And thanks for all your hard work!

Wisse · Post by **Wisse** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 12:36 am

if ou look at the bonus of ank, means underwolrd, an continent or an country "amente" ?

cairnswk · Post by **cairnswk** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 2:49 am

Xyl wrote:Having all the bonuses be the same feels weird, but since each region is basically just as defensible as each other region, it actually makes sense. Okay, I'm out of suggestions. Looks good to me. And thanks for all your hard work!

Pleasure Xyl. Thanks for the suggestion.

cairnswk · Post by **cairnswk** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:00 am

Wisse wrote:if ou look at the bonus of ank, means underwolrd, an continent or an country "amente" ?

Wisse....i don't quite understand what you are asking above

There is more info at the below link that might help you understand, and remember this is a game concept around the existance of the underworld and afterlife.

http://www.crystalinks.com/egyptafterlife.html

edbeard · Post by **edbeard** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:12 am

the confusion is coming from the center legend.

you say "Amente means the Underworld" which doesn't make sense to me. I honestly don't know its purpose. Unless I'm missing something, I think you should get rid of it

In the right hand legend, it says under Ankh - 1 for each underworld held, which could lead people to believe you get 1 for each Amente held because of the above "Amente means the Underworld"

cairnswk · Post by **cairnswk** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 4:07 am

edbeard wrote:the confusion is coming from the center legend.

you say "Amente means the Underworld" which doesn't make sense to me. I honestly don't know its purpose. Unless I'm missing something, I think you should get rid of it

In the right hand legend, it says under Ankh - 1 for each underworld held, which could lead people to believe you get 1 for each Amente held because of the above "Amente means the Underworld"

Yeh thanks edbeard...i guess if the cartographer doesn't explain it properly you guys wouldn't be able to fathom it out.

So I have made some changes as per the mpa below, but the Amente is staying as a territory required for each region to obtain.

Sparqs · Post by **Sparqs** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 4:25 pm

Confusion comes about because there are 2 terms that are each defined 2 different ways. In the center cartouche Afterlife and Eternal Life are defined as, essentially, contintents. In the right-side cartouche Afterlife is defined as a token. I think this might be OK, except that Eternal Life is then defined as being a bonus of 1 per Region, contradicting the center cartouche.

Now that the Underworld bonuses have become Afterlife bonuses, I think the the right-side cartouche should say "Eternal Life - Ankh 1 - for each Afterlife held". Unfortunately, that will confuse people into thinking that the Ankh token adds 1 for every Afterlife token, as opposed to every Afterlife continent - and that is the key problem. To clear up confusion, I think continents need to be named differently than the tokens required to hold them.

Also, including Amente in the right-side cartouche under the same heading as Afterlife tokens adds confusion. I understand that you want to make clear that Amente means Underworld, but I think doing that in the Afterlife section will always cause confusion. Since Amente is required for a region, why not add a yellow line after Region E 4, and put "<symbol> Amente-Underworld" there?

Pious · Post by **Pious** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 6:42 pm

Cool map, but there's two Ramesses III, one on green and one on light green.

cairnswk · Post by **cairnswk** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 3:24 am

Pious wrote:Cool map, but there's two Ramesses III, one on green and one on light green.

i wonder where that 2nd one came from...must had babies! :shock:

Thanks Pious.

cairnswk · Post by **cairnswk** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 4:02 am

Sparqs wrote:Confusion comes about because there are 2 terms that are each defined 2 different ways. In the center cartouche Afterlife and Eternal Life are defined as, essentially, contintents. In the right-side cartouche Afterlife is defined as a token. I think this might be OK, except that Eternal Life is then defined as being a bonus of 1 per Region, contradicting the center cartouche.

Now that the Underworld bonuses have become Afterlife bonuses, I think the the right-side cartouche should say "Eternal Life - Ankh 1 - for each Afterlife held". Unfortunately, that will confuse people into thinking that the Ankh token adds 1 for every Afterlife token, as opposed to every Afterlife continent - and that is the key problem. To clear up confusion, I think continents need to be named differently than the tokens required to hold them.

Also, including Amente in the right-side cartouche under the same heading as Afterlife tokens adds confusion. I understand that you want to make clear that Amente means Underworld, but I think doing that in the Afterlife section will always cause confusion. Since Amente is required for a region, why not add a yellow line after Region E 4, and put "<symbol> Amente-Underworld" there?

Sparqs...how is this below? I don't know about your 2nd paragragh...but surely this shoudl make things more understandable>

Egypt: Valley Of The Kings [Quenched]

V43 Update