Egypt: Valley Of The Kings [Quenched]

[cairnswk]

As per the map above, from suggestions offered above, i have also explored incorporating the instructions in the centre into the bonus legend at the right. It took up the entire right side and the title had to be dispensed with and moved to the top of the map and it become a very messy exercise. The legend itself was quite untidy no matter what font was used and design explored.

[Xyl]

Xyl....thanks for the suggestions....
These guys are already DEAD, they are not transitioning from the living world to the dead. What is occuring, is spirit world movement, where in Egyptian minds, it was though that once the king was dead they moved from their tombs through the DARK underworld onto the Afterlife.
Thus i have coloured the underworld as the dark area and given the underworld token the some solour as the region to remind players that they are still in that region before they move to a totally different coloured afterlife.

Since you've explained it, that makes sense flavorfully, but it's still confusing gameplay-wise. Is there a good way to convey the flavor but still make clear that it's part of the region?

I think from the map there is only one afterlife territory that can be obtained, so i see no reason to change to your suggestion as 3 per underworld bonus would cause more confusion in people's minds.

The current legend makes it look like the afterlife territory gives a flat bonus of 3 armies, all by itself. From what I understand, the number of armies it gives is variable: it's 3 for each region with underworld token you possess. The Mind territory from 8 Thoughts, or Alcatraz from San Francisco, have similar mechanics. They use something like the wording I suggested, which is why I thought it might work here too.

On another note, holding the afterlife gives such a big positional advantage I'm not sure that it deserves any bonus armies at all. Even without armies, it's good enough for people to fight over it for the attack possibilities it provides (to the tombs and to all the underworld tokens).

[cairnswk]

The current legend makes it look like the afterlife territory gives a flat bonus of 3 armies, all by itself. From what I understand, the number of armies it gives is variable: it's 3 for each region with underworld token you possess.

Xyl...i'll have another look at the colour etc again shortly but first....
The Afterlife....it does give a flat bonus of 3 if you have all of the pre-requisites.
So let's look at Region D.
Region D = Tombs + Robber + Amente = 3 bonus points.
Underworld for D = Tombs + Robber + Amente + Underworld = total 5 bonus points
Afterlife for D = Tombs + Robber + Amente + Underworld = total 8 bonus points.

if you happen to get to the afterlife first, then you can possibly hang onto it and this gives you the opportunity to stop others from getting the afterlife...the afterlife in egyptian mythology was meant to be all powerful and something that all kings aimed for.

On another note, holding the afterlife gives such a big positional advantage I'm not sure that it deserves any bonus armies at all. Even without armies, it's good enough for people to fight over it for the attack possibilities it provides (to the tombs and to all the underworld tokens).

I do think it deserves a bonus, but as you said perhaps not as big, may a bonus of 2.

What if the Underworld bonuses were increased - that would give everyone more opportunity to attack the afterlife.

What do you think?

[Xyl]

The Afterlife....it does give a flat bonus of 3 if you have all of the pre-requisites.
So let's look at Region D.
Region D = Tombs + Robber + Amente = 3 bonus points.
Underworld for D = Tombs + Robber + Amente + Underworld = total 5 bonus points
Afterlife for D = Tombs + Robber + Amente + Underworld = total 8 bonus points.

Well, let's look at what holding the Afterlife vs not holding the Afterlife gets you.

If you have no regions, holding the Afterlife gives you no benefit.
If you have the Tombs + Robber + Amente + Underworld for B, you get 3 extra armies over what you would get without Afterlife.
If you have the Tombs + Robber + Amente + Underworld for B, and the Tombs + Robber + Amente + Underworld for D, you get 6 bonus armies over what you would get without Afterlife (3 for Tombs B + Robber B + Amente B + Underworld B + Afterlife, and 3 for Tombs D + Robber D + Amente D + Underworld D + Afterlife).

In other words, the bonus you get from holding Afterlife is 3 armies per region + underworld held. It's only worth exactly 3 armies if you hold exactly one region.

[cairnswk]

The Afterlife....it does give a flat bonus of 3 if you have all of the pre-requisites.
So let's look at Region D.
Region D = Tombs + Robber + Amente = 3 bonus points.
Underworld for D = Tombs + Robber + Amente + Underworld = total 5 bonus points
Afterlife for D = Tombs + Robber + Amente + Underworld = total 8 bonus points.

Well, let's look at what holding the Afterlife vs not holding the Afterlife gets you.

If you have no regions, holding the Afterlife gives you no benefit.
If you have the Tombs + Robber + Amente + Underworld for B, you get extra armies over what you would get without Afterlife.
If you have the Tombs + Robber + Amente + Underworld for B, and the Tombs + Robber + Amente + Underworld for D, you get 6 bonus armies over what you would get without Afterlife (3 for Tombs B + Robber B + Amente B + Underworld B + Afterlife, and 3 for Tombs D + Robber D + Amente D + Underworld D + Afterlife).

In other words, the bonus you get from holding Afterlife is 3 armies per region + underworld held. It's only worth exactly 3 armies if you hold exactly one region.

OK Xyl...sorry I can be a bit thick sometimes...but now i understand what you are saying...in the legend I should add "3 per region held"...is that right?

[onbekende]

Starters, great map (can't be said enough)

Continents:
Region A:
- The line between the 2 robbers seems less obvious then between the other robbers
What is that half "+" above Amenhotep I?

Region B:
- Is it me or look the pharao's headpeaces all weird? like they have been turned 1° or so? You see the blue lines not go perfect horizontal as the others.
- Akhanaten, isn't it Akhanaton? as he was a worshipper of Aton.

Region C:
No comments

Region D:
- Again such a weird half "+" next to Thutmose IV.

Region E:
- Yuya, it almost looks like Yuga (or is it?)
- Perhaps the curve of the robber area's more down, thus creating some more room for the name tag "Robber E1", you can then also move the other robber and army shade a tad to the south.

Underworld Region:
- How would Leb look like without the white around it?

Overall:
- The scarbs are not always the same (I probably read over why)
- All arrows on the map are nice except the one going to Robber A1, he seems way bigger then the others.
- Is it me or do I see a green smeer at Maat? Perhaps in stead of such a smeer you can just gradually fade out the stars going to the middle?

Gameplay:I am not that good at this discussion, will give it a shot
I am counting parts of Underworld, go under the assumption Ankh can only attack via arrows
Region A:
11 territories - 5 outgoing attack routes - 5 incomming attack routes
Very nice

Region B:
11 territories - 5 outgoing attack routes - 5 incomming attack routes
very nice

Region C:
9 territories - 5 outgoing/incomming attack routes
perhaps also 4? althou less territories, it has 2 robbers

Region D:
9 territories - 5 incomming/outgoing attack routes
here I don't mind a bonus of 3

Region E:
12 territories - 5 incomming/outgoing attack routes
very nice

Region bonusses:
you get one for holding a complete region plus any Amente? or just the one a pharao is linked to? either way the bonus os nice enough.

Underworld Bonusses:
Again, only the linked Underworld Token (for Regian A => Maat) or anyone? Nonetheless fine

Afterlife:
Hereby I perhaps ask for you to make so that Ankh can't attack the underworld tokens, this makes regions bit easier to hold but strategics still need army's on the underworld tokens as when someone else takes it they already have troops on "stand-by" so to speak.



A very nice map again cairnswk, and if I said something already said before, appology's

[cairnswk]

Starters, great map (can't be said enough)

Thanks you. Glad you could drop in now.

Continents:
Region A:
- The line between the 2 robbers seems less obvious then between the other robbers
What is that half "+" above Amenhotep I?

Fixed

Region B:
- Is it me or look the pharao's headpeaces all weird? like they have been turned 1° or so? You see the blue lines not go perfect horizontal as the others.
- Akhanaten, isn't it Akhanaton? as he was a worshipper of Aton.

Pharao's headpieces fixed...Akhenaten name changed...corrected.

Region D:
- Again such a weird half "+" next to Thutmose IV.

Region E:
- Yuya, it almost looks like Yuga (or is it?)
- Perhaps the curve of the robber area's more down, thus creating some more room for the name tag "Robber E1", you can then also move the other robber and army shade a tad to the south.

Yuya is correct...it's the font that does that. Robber E1 given more space.

Underworld Region:
- How would Leb look like without the white around it?

Given black border.

Overall:
- The scarbs are not always the same (I probably read over why)
- All arrows on the map are nice except the one going to Robber A1, he seems way bigger then the others.

Arrow fixed. Scarabs have eyes coloured same as territory.

- Is it me or do I see a green smeer at Maat? Perhaps in stead of such a smeer you can just gradually fade out the stars going to the middle?

I'm happy with that colour fading onto the Afterlife....its the colour of the region.

Gameplay:I am not that good at this discussion, will give it a shot
I am counting parts of Underworld, go under the assumption Ankh can only attack via arrows

No Ankh can attack into the underworld, and I want to keep it that way....re below comments.

Afterlife:
Hereby I perhaps ask for you to make so that Ankh can't attack the underworld tokens, this makes regions bit easier to hold but strategics still need army's on the underworld tokens as when someone else takes it they already have troops on "stand-by" so to speak.

[onbekende]

very nice

[Wisse]

i don't get what underworld does

[cairnswk]

i don't get what underworld does

Hi Wisse

Amente - Underworld is the spirit world, often referred to as the dark world where strange things occur. It is usually guarded by Anubis, the jackal headed figures on my map, and ruled over by Osiris the God of the Underworld. In the Underworld. the King comes to recevie MAAT - the and has to reconcile against the Scales of Justice.

In the map, it has the same sort of meaning, it is the king's one-way journey from his tomb to the underworld, where he receives a token like MAAT and can then travel to the AFTERLIFE where it is said the king will live for forever or have eternal life. in the map, you can travel back and forth between the afterlife and the underworld, but the journey from the tombs is one-way to the underworld.

Hope this helps.

[cairnswk]

Any further feedback...questions?

[Wisse]

i don't get what underworld does

Hi Wisse

Amente - Underworld is the spirit world, often referred to as the dark world where strange things occur. It is usually guarded by Anubis, the jackal headed figures on my map, and ruled over by Osiris the God of the Underworld. In the Underworld. the King comes to recevie MAAT - the and has to reconcile against the Scales of Justice.

In the map, it has the same sort of meaning, it is the king's one-way journey from his tomb to the underworld, where he receives a token like MAAT and can then travel to the AFTERLIFE where it is said the king will live for forever or have eternal life. in the map, you can travel back and forth between the afterlife and the underworld, but the journey from the tombs is one-way to the underworld.

Hope this helps.

ok, but you get no bonus for it?

[cairnswk]

i don't get what underworld does

Hi Wisse

Amente - Underworld is the spirit world, often referred to as the dark world where strange things occur. It is usually guarded by Anubis, the jackal headed figures on my map, and ruled over by Osiris the God of the Underworld. In the Underworld. the King comes to recevie MAAT - the and has to reconcile against the Scales of Justice.

In the map, it has the same sort of meaning, it is the king's one-way journey from his tomb to the underworld, where he receives a token like MAAT and can then travel to the AFTERLIFE where it is said the king will live for forever or have eternal life. in the map, you can travel back and forth between the afterlife and the underworld, but the journey from the tombs is one-way to the underworld.

Hope this helps.

ok, but you get no bonus for it?

Not for holding all the underworld.
You get accumulative bonus for:
Tombs + Robbers + Amente = 3 or 4
Add 2 if you get a token
Add 3 if you the Afterlife.

I had to put the Amente (underworld) into the Underworld Bonus legend so that players might understand that it is part of the underworld and not the tomb and robber regions.

[AndyDufresne]

Final Forge

---The Egypt: Valley of the Kings Map has reached the ‘Final Forge’ Stage. I've revived this thread from the pits of the Foundry furnace and have examined the contents. Nearly every major concern has been addressed. If there are any other current concerns, please make your voice heard. There will be at least two days (but may extend pass that) for you to post any objections; if no one has posted any protest after two days the map will be deemed finished with the 'Foundry Brand' of approval and will be submitted for live play. If after two days there is still discussion going on it may continue until said discussion has reached the conclusion that the map has reached its final and polished version.

Post questions and concerns if any.


--Andy

[DiM]

finally.
many congrats cairns

[Wisse]

gratz

[Steel Panzer]

good work!

[Sparqs]

I think that in the right-side cartouche, Afterlife should say "3 per Underworld held".

[cairnswk]

Final Forge

---The Egypt: Valley of the Kings Map has reached the ‘Final Forge’ Stage. I've revived this thread from the pits of the Foundry furnace and have examined the contents. Nearly every major concern has been addressed. If there are any other current concerns, please make your voice heard. There will be at least two days (but may extend pass that) for you to post any objections; if no one has posted any protest after two days the map will be deemed finished with the 'Foundry Brand' of approval and will be submitted for live play. If after two days there is still discussion going on it may continue until said discussion has reached the conclusion that the map has reached its final and polished version.

Post questions and concerns if any.


--Andy

Andy what can i say..I'm chuffed...many thanks!

[cairnswk]

finally.
many congrats cairns

Thanks DiM...this one certainly went through the wringer.

[cairnswk]

gratz

Thanks Wisse.

[cairnswk]

good work!

Thanks Steel Panzer...I hope everyone enjoys something a little different!

[cairnswk]

I think that in the right-side cartouche, Afterlife should say "3 per Underworld held".

I'll adjust something to fit it, Sparqs. Thanks

[yeti_c]

Nice work Cairns.

C.

[unriggable]

Is there a large version?