The Hobbit Mafia [Town win]

[BuJaber]

And for goodness sake, let's drop this idea of Gandalf being a friggin fake-claim. Depending on how you look at it, he's either the 2nd or 3rd (swapping with Theorn) most important character. I would eat my proverbial hat if Mod-Lovo made him one.
Far more likely (if there are fake claims) that he sprinkled a couple minor dwarves in there along with one or two Small Role, Big Impact characters like Elrond, or hey, what about Beorn?!. He only appears in two scenes in the book, so I can't see him being included as a town role in a game of this size.

Fine. I'm convinced. The alternative means we probably cannot win the game anyway. Let's hope we don't have a cowardly real Gandalf that didn't counter claim among us.
MudPuppy is confirmed town for the remainder of the game.


Unvote.

I'm not hammering because I'm not convinced. But if ragian flips scum that means I was wrong about both MP and Ragian. So I'll just assume I'm wrong about Mitch too. Mitch getting voted D4 if Rag flips scum.

Sorry mitch, nothing personal. When nothing makes sense you have to rethink your assumptions.

[ZaBeast]

Right. When you guys balls up to actually lynch me (should be close now), go for the following next day: Flores and KJ.

Can you disclose why you suspect them? Just throwing up names is not going to convince me.

I have an idea of the role you'd claim, but I think a full claim would be necessary so we could know on who you used your night actions. I'm especially interested in the first night (but that's probably MM).

MM, talking about Thorin? And if not, who is Theorn?

[Ragian]

Lol, KJ 100% scum. Newbie scared of getting picked out and ignoring my first condition.

@MM, do you honestly believe that I'm scum? Come on, son. Be all that you can be instead.

Anyway, posting from phone. Final thought before some misguided person hammers: BuJ is way too cute. He usually harasses me and vice versa. Keep that in mind too.

[ZaBeast]

Can't you at least say who you used your night actions on so we're not left in the dark if you get lynched? We'll piece it out together afterwards. But if you're the role I think you are claiming, it would be a big loss for town. I have an idea of what it could be and who you used it on, but I'd want you to say it (at least the second part) rather than provide you with an answer Unvote until you say who you used it on. But not too long or I'll put it back on. Hiding info from town when you're about to get lynched is not very townie-like.

[ZaBeast]

And while I'm wating, I'll vote BuJaber. You're puting yourself in a position where you can criticize others for a possible mislynch by saying you're not going to hammer because you're not convinced, but by not voting someone else instead you're making Rag the de facto only viable lynch and would be as guilty as the others of a mislynch. And also, as I already said, there's a lot of your posts that look scummy.

[Ragian]

Holy balls... Mudpuppy withholds evidence and everyone is like "back off", but when I do it, it's anti-town. Gimme a break.

Now, if you haven't figured out whom I targeted with any action that I might have, you need to consult your GP.

Pika, Samlen, Hotshot. Way too quiet. Weigh in, please.

[MudPuppy]

I'm taking that response as a refusal to make a full claim or answer any of the questions that have been asked of him.

Vote Ragian

[ZaBeast]

I'm taking that response as a refusal to make a full claim or answer any of the questions that have been asked of him.

Vote Ragian

You shouldn't be the one using that argument... And he did answer. Somewhat.

Fine, I'll lay out what I think Rag's role is

@Beast, you might think that. But when my role description explains that my action impedes all night actions and you guys agree with me that masons talking at night is an action, what am I to do?

This post, and a lot of other ones, look like a jailor claim. He said he wasn't a roleblocker, and a jailor is the other role I know of to block night actions. Incidentally, it's also the most likely role I'd see Beorn in. He can protect you, but you can't go out. I agree it's not the most believable role out there, but it makes sense IMO.

Nothing done, nothing learned. Let's try this again: vote MM

Last game, Benga was lucky with a jail that turned out nicely.

FP'ed by Thor

Makes a lot of sense for a jailor who would have jailed MM N1.

So I think Rag should not be lynched today. Investigated, maybe, but not lynched.

@BuJ: I wouldn't say MP is confirmed town for the rest of the game. Since scum don't know what his power(s) is(are), I don't think they can't afford to keep him alive very long because he is sure to have powers if he's town. I would be open to pressuring him to full claiming later in the game if he isn't dead by then and doesn't improve his gameplay.

[Kamikaze Jawa]

Lol, KJ 100% scum. Newbie scared of getting picked out and ignoring my first condition.

LOL I'm not, but considering you said you would claim when you hit L-2 and then all you've done since is get butthurt and vote for me for putting you at L-2 and then demand we work out what your role is, I'm not sure what you expect us to say. And remind me, what condition am I ignoring?

Anyway, posting from phone. Final thought before some misguided person hammers: BuJ is way too cute. He usually harasses me and vice versa. Keep that in mind too.

This is what, the third, fourth time you've changed your mind on BuJ? Personally I agree that he looks scummy but you've flipped your opinion of him so many times now.

[MudPuppy]

I'm taking that response as a refusal to make a full claim or answer any of the questions that have been asked of him.

Vote Ragian

You shouldn't be the one using that argument... And he did answer. Somewhat.

By inferring I'm a hypocrite, do you feel I should claim my power? If so, why?... do you see no benefit from keeping my power a secret?

For either answer to the first question, why does Gandalf refusing to disclose his power make it OK for Beorn to refuse to disclose his power? I assume you don't think his claim would help scum, otherwise it would have been unwise for you to disclose your hypothesis.... So, what valid reason would a town Ragian have for not making a full claim at L-1 (or L-2 if you discount the bold red vote)?

Pretty sure the following questions of Ragian have been left unanaswered?

You said you'd claim at L-2, so where is your claim? All you've done in response is put through an OMGUS vote.

Perhaps he "somewhat" answered that by referring to his 1st condition of why he's not claiming.... But how is his 1st condition helpful to town??? Answer: it's not.

You've been flip-flopping too... Don't understand why BuJ is now townish in your eyes... was it his Pika "trap" where he built an insincere case or his push to have all masons in the game out themselves that convinced you he isn't scum? Please explain your change of heart in more detail.

Can't you at least say who you used your night actions on so we're not left in the dark if you get lynched?

[ZaBeast]

Now, if you haven't figured out whom I targeted with any action that I might have, you need to consult your GP.

He somewhat answered my question with this post. Because it is obvious, as I imagined, that he targeted MM with his night actions.

By inferring I'm a hypocrite, do you feel I should claim my power? If so, why?... do you see no benefit from keeping my power a secret?
For either answer to the first question, why does Gandalf refusing to disclose his power make it OK for Beorn to refuse to disclose his power? I assume you don't think his claim would help scum, otherwise it would have been unwise for you to disclose your hypothesis.... So, what valid reason would a town Ragian have for not making a full claim at L-1 (or L-2 if you discount the bold red vote)?

I assume it's better for scum to know which role I think he has if it makes him less likely of a lynch target today. I am not disputing the fact that Rag should have full-claimed. And about your two questions, I'm just pointing out that the criticism you've made today could also be applied to you: the lack of activity of HS (though, now that the tax season is done I'm expecting more activity from him), and now the fact that Rag didn't full-claim. I'm not looking for a claim from you.

[lord voldemort]

Vote Count 3.4


Ragian (6): Minister Masket, Pikanchion, FloresDelMal, Kamikaze Jawa, Thorthoth, MudPuppy
MudPuppy (1): Hotshot53,
Kamikaze Jawa (1): Ragian
BuJaber (1): ZaBeast


Not Voting (3): madmitch, Samlen, BuJaber



With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch.
There is now a deadline in place. Click here

Also can we please make sure votes are BOLD AND THIS GREEN or anything brighter

[Minister Masket]

Ragian (or anyone else for that matter) did not jail me N1 as I was perfectly able to talk to Skoffin (presuming I was the target and that a jailing would mean I lose my night action ability).

[BuJaber]

Beast:

1) I've been thinking and trying to lynch MudPuppy since day 1.
I have since changed my mind because the simplest explanation for MP to claim Gandalf is for him to be Gandalf. That fits also with the simplest explanation for why there are no counter-claims, which is that nobody can counter-claim.
I am also but one person. My opinions are meaningless if town don't agree. So I have to trust someone else's reads instead and go with majority to progress the game. If it were a solo game it'd be different.
Since MP being town completely changes my perspective of the game (for instance I've been leaning town for hotshot primarily because I though MP was scum), I would think it's reasonable to give me time to re-organize my perspective of the game before being able to vote someone else. If I'm gonna rush into a vote it will be gut-based only, and that will likely make me vote one of the inactives. Also a lot of my opinions on people right now are conditional. Someone needs to flip so that I can judge whether or not my read makes sense.

2) I don't want ragian lynched, but I won't pretend that it won't give us a ton of information. Did you see how fast people turned on him? If he does flip town then I'll have ammunition to build my next case. And if he flips scum that is also helpful for me because it means I cannot trust my reads this game, and must make future assumptions based on my gut being wrong for Days 1-3.

3) Who would you think is scummier? Someone who has mostly been inactive, or someone who is a very careful poster in the game, both afraid of slipping up, one by avoiding posting at all, and one by posting very carefully written & timed posts. I'm seeing a pattern of posting (or lack of) from some players; just not sure what would be more scum-indicative.

4) I do want credit if Ragian flips town. That is why I'm stating as clearly as I can. I want people to trust my judgement more. Ragian flipping town would make my case that mitch is town a lot stronger. When it comes to the day phase the only difference between scum and a scum-hunting townie is the intention behind the cases they build. Since scum have to make up cases against people they know are not scum, their thought process is dominated by how people would react to their case. But a townie is often trying to convince themselves first, so they often have to create links between the many different reads or assumptions they're getting. That's a lot of work so they think less about how the case will look like to other people.
That is why I find myself leaning towards town for the people who are disagreeing with me the most (if they back it up with assumptions that oppose my own). It tends to mean they have this neat little idea they've made up in their mind, so it's harder to convince them.


Ragian:
I think I'm quite confident in my ability to gauge your alignment. It just usually requires some sort of back and forth between us. If I flip-flopped at any point it would be because I'm seeing some inconsistency. Whether it be based on meta or within the current game.


As for the roleblocking or whatever. I haven't come a cross a game where night talk is considered a role- ability. I wouldn't think any attempt to target MM would have any effect on his/her night chatting.

[BuJaber]

Beast:

1) I've been thinking that he's scum, and trying to lynch MudPuppy since day 1.
.

EBWOP

[MudPuppy]

Ragian (or anyone else for that matter) did not jail me N1 as I was perfectly able to talk to Skoffin (presuming I was the target and that a jailing would mean I lose my night action ability).

That is a question Ragian already answered:

Abandon ship! I've just gotten confirmation that mason talk is a passive ability that can't be tampered with. unvote MM.

So... Yeah... Don't mind me.

[Ragian]

Ragian (or anyone else for that matter) did not jail me N1 as I was perfectly able to talk to Skoffin (presuming I was the target and that a jailing would mean I lose my night action ability).

Now, at least, you know where I'm coming from. This is my exact reason for calling you a liar. Then, of course, LoVo told me that masonry, apparently, is passive ability and thus can't be stopped despite my action stopping my target from using any night ability. I just don't get it.

@Mudpuppy, you show me yours, I'll show you mine. Your hiding is townie, but mine isn't? BS.

[Samlen]

Sorry for keeping quiet. Bit of indecisiveness making me wonder who to vote. I think both ragian and mudpuppy have a decent chance of being town. Mudpuppy because Gandalf doesn't seem like a likely fake claim for scum and ragian because their actions in thread match up with a jailer/roleblocker and beorn is a notable not-scummy character (at least from the books). But now there's a deadline in place and the only person in a position to be lynched is ragian. If going off of gut i'd lynch bujaber, especially after he decided to be more active and helpful after suspicions started rising about him (though I'm guilty of being pretty inactive until called upon too) but mostly because he's still one of my top suspects of people voting dakky yesterday for town cred. Second choice would be hotshot but I just don't have a read on someone who hasn't had time to post at all.
Vote Bujaber

[Pikanchion]

Who did you target each night Ragian?

[BuJaber]

upon too) but mostly because he's still one of my top suspects of people voting dakky yesterday for town cred.

Did you even read D2?

[FloresDelMal]

Ragian you are at lynch minus 1, and puppy is not, so i'ts obvious why you have more reasons for full disclosure than him, as of now you have lead us to believe that you are a jailer and your N1 target was MM, if you are as protown as you are claiming to be there should be no problems with giving us your night actions and the reasons behind the choosing of your targets, if it is convincing enough you might get unvoted and live another day, and even if you do get lynched your priority should be to help us as much as you can before the hammer falls, because sulking and withholding possible pertinent information reeks of scum.

On other note my mother in law is coming to stay with us so i don't know how much time i will have for mafia, but ill do my best to keep up.

[HotShot53]

My opinion on Ragian's not full claiming is the same as on Mudpuppy not full claiming... it's usually a scum move to not full claim when at L-2, and half claims only make me more suspicious whatever the name claim is. I was also suspicious of Ragian for his soft defense of dakky on day 2. So if nothing changes I will hammer ragian before the deadline.

[madmitch]

@ Rags tell us your full claim,we need to know, don't get hammered town needs to know help us to help you

[Ragian]

Who did you target each night Ragian?

I thought it was painfully obvious that I targeted MM both nights (thought I had pulled a Benga N1).

Ragian you are at lynch minus 1, and puppy is not, so i'ts obvious why you have more reasons for full disclosure than him, as of now you have lead us to believe that you are a jailer and your N1 target was MM, if you are as protown as you are claiming to be there should be no problems with giving us your night actions and the reasons behind the choosing of your targets, if it is convincing enough you might get unvoted and live another day, and even if you do get lynched your priority should be to help us as much as you can before the hammer falls, because sulking and withholding possible pertinent information reeks of scum.

On other note my mother in law is coming to stay with us so i don't know how much time i will have for mafia, but ill do my best to keep up.

This is total BS. Mudpuppy was at L-2 which equals full disclosure. Everybody just backed off. And yes, I'm at L-1. Do you think all scumsters are on the wagon, or do you think one of them is mustering up the courage to lynch?

@HS, I didn't SOFT defend Dakky. I flat out stated that I didn't think he was scum. I was wrong. Sue me. (I was about to say kill me, but you are...)

For whoever has not gotten it: I am Beorn. I'm town jailkeeper. I jailed MM both nights. This has already been deduced (well, abduced really) by Beast (I think).

Now, either kill me or move on.

[Thorthoth]

I'm feeling optimistic about the ragian vote. Let's hammer him and move on.
HS. this is your opportunity to make yourself look good, hurry up and don't blow it.