Balance Not Included Come Back Mafia End Game: Mod Down!!!

[Samlen]

Again with the mass claims it helps only the mafia know which person they should kill first. The whole reason I haven't claimed is so that the mafia don't know if it's better to kill me or not. The fact that we forced the doc to claim was unfortunate but unavoidable considering how inactive dj was. Our best option is to make do with all of the claims we have right now.
@DJ if the above events are true are you assuming Dakky is a mafia roleblocker instead of a townsided one?

[Skoffin]

I don't know how else this is supposed to be explained. Have you heard of Occam's razor? The simplest answer is often the right one. I gave a theory that perfectly matches what happened and instead you give a convoluted possibility that 'might' fit in but still doesn't answer most questions and threw up your hands with "this is too confusing! who knows what happened!" and yet my possibility is the ridiculous one? I never 'cleared' dakky, I outright stated he could be lying. Perhaps you would not have had to claim had you actually been paying attention to the game, and maybe I wouldn't have suggested mass claims if there were more action going on here.

Here is what a redirector does.

What did Dakky claim happened? He claimed he targeted DDS. His result was that Nag visited Samlen. HENCE my theory that a redirector chose Dakky, and changed Dakky's target to Nag. If Dakky was selected by a redirector he NEVER visited DDS in the first place. It's such a simple and logical explanation for what happened I don't get why it's being treated as so outlandish and somehow your idea of role ability swaps and other nonsense is more likely.
You know what else helps my theory? The fact that when someone here posted a list of roles that were not randomly selected in the last balance mafia game the role redirector *was on that list* which makes it quite reasonable to find that role in this game considering multiple roles on that list have been claimed in this game already. All the evidence suggest my theory is the best and most likely one. You don't have to like my theory but the idea that mine is somehow ridiculous is preposterous.

[dakky21]

But Skoff, DjF is right, that role block must have had come out of somewhere. If I got redirected, that means I was the one who roleblocked the redirected target as DjF says... But since I'm not the role blocker, then it came from unknown source. Does that mean we have two redirectors?

[Skoffin]

No. DDS was turned into a roleblock, he blocked Legion. You were hit by a redirector if you are truthful.

[dakky21]

No. DDS was turned into a roleblock, he blocked Legion. You were hit by a redirector if you are truthful.

So someone must have targeted me with a roleblock or am I wrong here?

[DirtyDishSoap]

I don't want to make this any more confusing than I already have in the past, but how does Dakky know he targeted Samlen?

Wouldn't it say for my action "Nag visited your target tonight"?

Looking back on it, I can see why Sam was annoyed that I came out and claimed a RB on legion. Didn't think much of it as a no harm, no foul sort of deal...But I'm not sure if anyone is being notified if their target is being switched or not.

[Skoffin]

Ok, so I'm a little baffled at how we've come to here, but I'll try to simplify as best I can:

DDS, you claimed watcher and that you watched Legion last night. You also stated that you somehow got info that you blocked Legion and you did not get watcher results. Is this correct?
Legion confirms that he was blocked.

Dakky, you claim [role](I never saw you roleclaim, amirite?] and that you chose DDS last night. However, you instead got a message that Nag visited Sam. Nothing said about DDS. Is this correct?

Assuming the above is correct, and assuming both DDs and Dakky are truthful:

Someone targeted DDS and changed his watcher ability into a roleblock ability. As it claimed watcher, it's quite reasonable for anyone to assume that DDS would watch Legion and two roles can be nullified at once.

Someone else (redirector) targeted Dakky. They changed Dakky's action from going to DDS to instead go to Nag. Dakky then saw Nag visit Samlen. Dakky never roleblocked anyone, he did not visit DDS at all. He only went to Nag.

Of course, things would be more straightforward if we knew Dakky's role. I'm assuming you are a tracker or somesuch?

[DirtyDishSoap]

That's not what I'm asking though.

I'm asking if he would be aware if his target changed?

My actions have never specifically said "No one visited Fircoal" or "You role blocked Legion due to interference."

I'm asking if it's normal for him to know who his target was after being bussed?

[DirtyDishSoap]

All I get is "Your target", I don't get names so I'm assuming I haven't been bussed.

[Skoffin]

You claimed before that you got a message that stated you blocked legion or something to that affect. Can you please clarify.

In my experience, when roles alter targets (for example a bus driver) the person affected is never told that they have been altered in that manner. Normally you have to work things out based on what info you are given.
So no, if dakky was targeted by a redirector he would not be explicitly told by the mod - otherwise that would make such roles redundant as confusing town is the entire purpose of the role.

[Metsfanmax]

I'm asking if he would be aware if his target changed?

My actions have never specifically said "No one visited Fircoal" or "You role blocked Legion due to interference."

It's not inconceivable that dakky would have been explicitly told who his results were targeted at. This seems rather plausible to me for a role like tracker (though I'm not completely certain that's what dakky is). It's not like roleblock where you don't need to know who you blocked in order for the action to be meaningful. The results of a tracker are obviously interpreted with respect to who the tracker targeted.

I could go either way on this, but as of this moment I don't have a strong reason to believe dakky is lying, which means that I don't have a strong reason to believe that he couldn't have gotten results in the way he's saying.

[DirtyDishSoap]

You claimed before that you got a message that stated you blocked legion or something to that affect. Can you please clarify.

In my experience, when roles alter targets (for example a bus driver) the person affected is never told that they have been altered in that manner. Normally you have to work things out based on what info you are given.
So no, if dakky was targeted by a redirector he would not be explicitly told by the mod - otherwise that would make such roles redundant as confusing town is the entire purpose of the role.

This is why I'm beating myself over the head now that I realized what Sam was saying of just waiting to see if Legion claimed for a RB or not. The message I received simply stated that my action was interfered and would apply to your target. No name was given as to who my target was, so I'm assuming my action had carried out on Legion who I had intended to visit.

As for the second part, this is why I'm trying to understand if he should know who he targeted. When it should simply say "Nag visited your target." Not "Nag visited Samlen."
If he has my role for that night, it would make no sense for him to know who his target was, assuming he was bussed as well and didn't visit me.

[Metsfanmax]

You claimed before that you got a message that stated you blocked legion or something to that affect. Can you please clarify.

In my experience, when roles alter targets (for example a bus driver) the person affected is never told that they have been altered in that manner. Normally you have to work things out based on what info you are given.
So no, if dakky was targeted by a redirector he would not be explicitly told by the mod - otherwise that would make such roles redundant as confusing town is the entire purpose of the role.

This is why I'm beating myself over the head now that I realized what Sam was saying of just waiting to see if Legion claimed for a RB or not. The message I received simply stated that my action was interfered and would apply to your target. No name was given as to who my target was, so I'm assuming my action had carried out on Legion who I had intended to visit.

As for the second part, this is why I'm trying to understand if he should know who he targeted. When it should simply say "Nag visited your target." Not "Nag visited Samlen."
If he has my role for that night, it would make no sense for him to know who his target was, assuming he was bussed as well and didn't visit me.

Wait, why do you think he had your role for the night? =/ This is super confusing, guys.

[DirtyDishSoap]

I misinterpreted it I think.

Before Legion answers, I targeted him for the night and my action was changed to a role block.
Paraphrasing here to avoid a quote, but "Your action was interfered and is now changed to a block for the night and applies to the target."

This is getting really weird.

I targeted you and got the result that Nag visited Samlen... paraphrasing to avoid a quote is similar. I guessed you are a watcher or something like that and you targeted Samlen, but as you say you targeted Legion so that means we were all shifted around with actions... lol... not good.

I really should stop reading this half buzzed lol.

[DirtyDishSoap]

Point is, going back on it, and trying to combat the booze, is that my action was changed to a role block. For whatever reason, I thought Dakky received my role for the night, but since Met's eliminated that confusion of him being a possible tracker, or at the very least, knows who his target is, we can assume that Dakky was bussed or redirected from me to target Samlen. Amirite?

In any event, I don't think this is getting us anywhere.

[Metsfanmax]

Point is, going back on it, and trying to combat the booze, is that my action was changed to a role block. For whatever reason, I thought Dakky received my role for the night, but since Met's eliminated that confusion of him being a possible tracker, or at the very least, knows who his target is, we can assume that Dakky was bussed or redirected from me to target Samlen. Amirite?

In any event, I don't think this is getting us anywhere.

We need to do something today. But no one is making a compelling case at this point. The only people with enough votes for a lynch are Sam and Dj. I don't want to lynch Dj for previously stated reasons, and I don't presently find the case on Sam to be a strong one. I'm just not sure what to do here.

[DirtyDishSoap]

I'm in complete agreement with doing something, I'm just saying this night action and discerning who did what isn't getting anywhere.

[Skoffin]

For simplicity sake, let's sak Dakky is a tracker. Standard procedure is to get a result of [name] visited [name].

Also DDS you said: " When it should simply say "Nag visited your target." Not "Nag visited Samlen." "

I think Nag was his target, not Sam :p

In any case, this isn't worth our time at the moment; and this distraction is part why I distrusted DJ bringing the whole thing up again.

For the moment people I do not want to lynch today are: Dakky, DDS, Legion and Nag.
I am disinclined to vote Sam or Tim.

I'm open to lynching from DJ, mets or Chu.

[TimWoodbury]

jsut random thought to add

N1 was no night kill because it was delayed to day

N2 no night kill and so far no day kill im inclined to bealive it was blocked

in that case who got role blocked last night that must be the scum that had sent in the kill

[TimWoodbury]

unvote vote legion
legion claims he was blocked was no kill last night no kill durning the day so legion must be the bad dude?

[Metsfanmax]

unvote vote legion
legion claims he was blocked was no kill last night no kill durning the day so legion must be the bad dude?

Take a step back and think this through, Tim. Legion was the main reason Ragian got lynched on D2. If Legion was scum and therefore partners with Ragian, why would he have given Ragian up like that?

[TimWoodbury]

unvote vote legion
legion claims he was blocked was no kill last night no kill durning the day so legion must be the bad dude?

Take a step back and think this through, Tim. Legion was the main reason Ragian got lynched on D2. If Legion was scum and therefore partners with Ragian, why would he have given Ragian up like that?

town cred idk why else would there have not been any sort of kill?

[Metsfanmax]

unvote vote legion
legion claims he was blocked was no kill last night no kill durning the day so legion must be the bad dude?

Take a step back and think this through, Tim. Legion was the main reason Ragian got lynched on D2. If Legion was scum and therefore partners with Ragian, why would he have given Ragian up like that?

town cred idk why else would there have not been any sort of kill?

Town cred is a legitimate explanation when your scum buddy has already been outed and you want to jump on the wagon. It's not in this case, because there was no other evidence pointing to Ragian. Ragian probably would not have been lynched if it wasn't for legion. And you never just willfully give up a scum buddy for "town cred." The cost always outweighs the benefit.

[Metsfanmax]

As for why there was no kill, maybe scum tried to kill me and Dj using his doctor ability on me saved me. There are lots of possible explanations.

[TimWoodbury]

true i didnt take into account doc unvote