strike wolf wrote:It is Game of thrones though. Killing off the seeming protagonist right before they seem to have fulfilled their role is kind of a staple of the series. So anyone who stops watching because Jon is now dead probably shouldnt have been watching from the beginning.
Except, Jon was one of the most popular characters alongside Tyrion, Daenaris and Arya. They haven't killed off a fan favorite since season 1. Even in books, favorite characters usually either get killed at the start or or at the end of a series.
What about Robb? Tywin was kind of a fan favorite villain.
Robb just isn't as popular as the other 4, far from it. In the books Robb isn't even a protagonist. And Tywin was a villain, not a hero. In series it is not unusual to rotate through villains. It is however unusual to the the same to heroes.
I don't consider Tywin a villain. I kind of liked him actually. Like a bunch of characters said, he's the only Lannister that is deserving of any respect. He did do some dasterdly things (striking a deal with the Freys and Boltons) but c'mon, he was just trying to protect his family.
Joffrey was a villain. Tywin is more like a...I don't even know.
Army of GOD wrote:I don't consider Tywin a villain. I kind of liked him actually. Like a bunch of characters said, he's the only Lannister that is deserving of any respect. He did do some dasterdly things (striking a deal with the Freys and Boltons) but c'mon, he was just trying to protect his family.
Joffrey was a villain. Tywin is more like a...I don't even know.
What about having his soldiers gang rape Tyrion's wife/lover? "Protect" my ass.
Army of GOD wrote:I don't consider Tywin a villain. I kind of liked him actually. Like a bunch of characters said, he's the only Lannister that is deserving of any respect. He did do some dasterdly things (striking a deal with the Freys and Boltons) but c'mon, he was just trying to protect his family.
Joffrey was a villain. Tywin is more like a...I don't even know.
What about having his soldiers gang rape Tyrion's wife/lover? "Protect" my ass.
Tywin is a pretty straightforward villain in the books. I can't think of any side you could reasonably sympathise with where he comes across as in the right. In the series he's a brutal pragmatist, and that's much to do with Charles Dance. His first scene does more without words than Martin manages in books.
the world is in greater peril from those who tolerate or encourage evil than from those who actually commit it- Albert Einstein
Army of GOD wrote:I don't consider Tywin a villain. I kind of liked him actually. Like a bunch of characters said, he's the only Lannister that is deserving of any respect. He did do some dasterdly things (striking a deal with the Freys and Boltons) but c'mon, he was just trying to protect his family.
Joffrey was a villain. Tywin is more like a...I don't even know.
What about having his soldiers gang rape Tyrion's wife/lover? "Protect" my ass.
Tywin is a pretty straightforward villain in the books. I can't think of any side you could reasonably sympathise with where he comes across as in the right. In the series he's a brutal pragmatist, and that's much to do with Charles Dance. His first scene does more without words than Martin manages in books.
I think Tywin is very much a "by any means necessary type." I guess that sorta automatically makes him a "villain," but the whole point is that to sit the Iron Throne and rule Westeros requiress utilizing tools which some might find unpleasant or evil. He's more of the needs of many outweigh the needs of the few. iirc it's not like his people in the West suffered under fear or torture. They enjoyed peace and prosperity, but he's a true ruler, efficient and ruthless.
Ned died because he believed in ruling sans brutality or dishonor. Tywin died not because he couldn't rule but because he couldn't accept things he couldn't change, i.e. Jamie being forever a Kingsguard and Tyrion his most fitting heir.
Tywin is an example of why I love GoT so much. You can argue he's a villain, but he is not necessarily a villain in the classic sense. Like Symm said, he's a pragmatist. He gets things done how he thinks they are best done.
now, his major flaw was always his irrational hatred for Tyrion, which I guess could also make him a villain since Tyrion is a de facto hero in the story. But GoT is never binary like that. All characters have flaws, faults, etc, even the best ones. It's up to the viewer to decide who they want to root for and who not to.
Take Dany for example...she is a protagonist by most accounts...but a lot of people decide not to root for her for a bunch of reasons. It's not like LOTR or something where we are told who to root for and not to because there are really only two sides (humans, elves and dwarves vs Sauron and orcs). In GOT we have (or, had) the Lannisters vs the Starks vs the Targaryens vs Stannis vs Renly. It becomes more like a sports league than a generic film (you root for and against different teams with varying degrees)
and even if we take that example above of the 5 different kings...each individual team had characters who you could root for and against as well. Like, the Lannisters are generally regarded as villains, but everyone roots for Tyrion who fought with the Lannisters for a while. Or take Cersei, who probably drummed up some sympathy after the last season despite being a pretty obvious villain
So, how much is it a given that Jon Snow is the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna (and he's supposed to come back from the dead or something)? Or is George Martin gonna pull a Shyamalan with some crappy plot twist?
Are well psyched to see the Jon Snow vs Ramsey Bolton showdown? C'mon, we all know it's coming.
muy wrote:So, how much is it a given that Jon Snow is the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna (and he's supposed to come back from the dead or something)? Or is George Martin gonna pull a Shyamalan with some crappy plot twist?
I have a feeling that we'll find out about Jon Snow's parentage one way or another this season and I'm pretty sure it'll be Bran who shows us. I don't know if the R+L=J theory is the right one or not, but I think we'll find out this season of GoT. Hopefully. Then the interwebz can argue about it for the next ten years. haha.
Metsfanmax wrote:No, what would be interesting was if Jon Snow was to fucking stay dead and have the show move on to less whiny characters.
So, which characters haven't been whiners at this point?
Davos, Littlefinger, Varys, Melissandre, the unsullied, Hodor, ... Basically the sidecharacters are much more badass than the main characters.
Littlefinger is a sociopath, Mellisandre is batshit nuts, the unsullied had the whining beat out of them, Hodor can only say "Hodor" so that's kind of hard to tell...
riskllama wrote:hmmm...55 minutes of hodor saying "hodor". cinematic gold, right there. GoT doesn't suck balls, unlike south park, which cleary does just that.
I know you've been traumatized by 'the goatfuck' so I'll dismiss that piece of blasphemy.
I can't believe they did a casting change right in the middle of a scene for Melisandre. I've heard of changes sometimes in the middle of a season, but never in the middle of a scene. Yet another first for GoT.
On some boards there are people who think that the Dorne storyline is now over (most expressing gratitude given how badly acted and presented the Sand Snakes are) but IDK. I think we'll have to endure too much SS nonsense.
Question, where exactly was Tristan when he got stabbed in the back of the head? Was he on the ship moored in Blackwater Bay outside King's Landing or was he back in Dorne? It wasn't made very clear. It was an awkward scene in it's presentation. The two feminazis were standing on the dock in Dorne when the ship left last season. If Tristan was killed in King's Landing aboard the boat, where were all the guards? How did the feminazis get there? Why did Tristan just sit on the boat? Why did Tristan turn his back on an armed, crazy assassin? Maybe when Myrcella died Jamie turned the boat around and dropped Tristan off and he was in a study back in Dorne? And what about how Areo Hotah getting killed so easily with a tiny dagger to the back? He ain't supposed to go out in such a pussy way. Hotah is a bad ass, or he was supposed to be. The whole Dorne storyline is so fucked up. All those feminazi bitches need to be killed, quickly, but just before let the one with the perfect tits show 'em just one more time. Maybe shake them around some before she gets shanked.
Ser Davos is gonna do some killing. Looking forward to that next episode. I wonder how many traitorous Night's watch Ghost will tear the throats out of in the fight? It's shaping up to be a good hoedown though either way.
Ramsay Bolton is sentimental after all, who'd have thunk it? Not only was he pining away in what almost appeared as melancholy over what's her name, he even remembered for the well being of the hounds.
So, question, speculation really, how does everyone think Jon Snow's resurrection is going to play out? Will Mel raise him from the dead like that other Red Priest did? Will Jon be put on a funeral pyre and when his body is burnt will he rise up and step out of the flames unharmed and alive proving he is Targaryen? Or will his soul be stuck in his dire wolf for the rest of the series? Or will he just stay dead? What say you all?
Seems like Mel has some real magic working for her. Do we think her taking her magic necklace off was a repudiation of her faith or was it just her nightly routine bedding down for the night?
I wonder how many episodes we'll have to endure of Arya getting her blind ass kicked over and over before she does something, anything interesting.
Not a bad episode overall, a decent start to the season minus the Sand bitches.
patches, stop whinning about everything, you are tiresome.
My gues is that the white walkers areabout to come into play, and that everybody in castle black is going to have to become friends again. They'll let melissandre step in and resurect jon. We all agree that once resurected, he'll be freed from his oath and will not have to be a crow anymore? I love how they tell sansa to go check out castle black to go find her bro.
There's a theory circulating that Jon Snow is the bastard child of Rhaegar Targaryen and that once they try to burn his body it'll heal him and resurrect him.
waauw wrote:There's a theory circulating that Jon Snow is the bastard child of Rhaegar Targaryen and that once they try to burn his body it'll heal him and resurrect him.
well everybody knows about his parent's theory.... but i don't really see how fire is supposed to resurect targaryens, otherwise all targaryens would still be alive. On the other hand, the servants of the lord of the light have proved to be able to resurect people... don't remember the name of that guy from the brotherhood without banner....
