12 hour fog rule

[Vid_FISO]

Can anyone point me (and other clan leaders) to where the rule is posted please? As it's something many clans use a prominent thread/ link would be most useful to avoid confusion as I get the occasional complaint claiming a breach when a move has been played within 12 hours but no opponents terit has been captured.

[IcePack]

Can anyone point me (and other clan leaders) to where the rule is posted please? As it's something many clans use a prominent thread/ link would be most useful to avoid confusion as I get the occasional complaint claiming a breach when a move has been played within 12 hours but no opponents terit has been captured.

This is pretty typical:

12 hour Fog of War rule in effect. If broken, the offending team has to copy/paste
game log and reveal those territories that would have been visible to opposing team.
If not remedied, the offended team can opt to remake the game before playing their first turn.
The rule does not apply to conquest maps or where the only action is deploy/fort without attacks.

Occasionally it's altered a bit depending on whether it's enforced or not.

Example: CL6 Premier League the CD's will not enforce game remakes, so it was altered slightly as a gentle end agreement and not forced punishments.

[Vid_FISO]

I mean the actual rule itself - something along the lines of - "for the very first move in a fog game the first player has to either wait for 12 hours to pass or until the opponents have acknowledged sight of the map, unless that first move does not capture an opponent's terit"

[Lindax]

I mean the actual rule itself - something along the lines of - "for the very first move in a fog game the first player has to either wait for 12 hours to pass or until the opponents have acknowledged sight of the map, unless that first move does not capture an opponent's terit"

There is no official, one rule. What you say is good, without the last bit:

For the very first move in a fog game the first player has to either wait for 12 hours to pass or until the opponents have acknowledged sight of the map".

But everybody words it a bit different....

Lx

[Vid_FISO]

I mean the actual rule itself - something along the lines of - "for the very first move in a fog game the first player has to either wait for 12 hours to pass or until the opponents have acknowledged sight of the map, unless that first move does not capture an opponent's terit"

There is no official, one rule. What you say is good, without the last bit:

For the very first move in a fog game the first player has to either wait for 12 hours to pass or until the opponents have acknowledged sight of the map".

But everybody words it a bit different....

Lx

But my last bit avoids confusion, there is no change to the sight of the map if first to go does not capture an opponent's terit so no disadvantage to 2nd to play if such a move is played immediately. I have had a complaint in the past regarding a move played on a Feudal map immediately which indicates that the reason for the rule is not widely understood.

[Keefie]

or you are only deploying

or a map like City Mogul, AOR etc

[Keefie]

I mean the actual rule itself - something along the lines of - "for the very first move in a fog game the first player has to either wait for 12 hours to pass or until the opponents have acknowledged sight of the map, unless that first move does not capture an opponent's terit"

There is no official, one rule. What you say is good, without the last bit:

For the very first move in a fog game the first player has to either wait for 12 hours to pass or until the opponents have acknowledged sight of the map".

But everybody words it a bit different....

Lx

But my last bit avoids confusion, there is no change to the sight of the map if first to go does not capture an opponent's terit so no disadvantage to 2nd to play if such a move is played immediately. I have had a complaint in the past regarding a move played on a Feudal map immediately which indicates that the reason for the rule is not widely understood.

If you take a neutral in Feudal then you have not broken the rules. You have not altered the visible map.

[Vid_FISO]

If you take a neutral in Feudal then you have not broken the rules. You have not altered the visible map.

Agreed, so back to the original question, is the rule stated somewhere that can be linked to to enable clarity for all?

[IcePack]

Yeah the rule only covers something they would have been able to see had you let them wait.

As Lindax said there is no "one official rule" so the answer is no it's not written somewhere to cover all wars / events. It's tweaked according to whether it's official or voluntary, or some clans prefer it worded in some ways etc

[Keefie]

Found it

It's in the CD and Friends archive.

viewtopic.php?f=738&t=154654


If the second team to join a foggy game also gets the first turn, they must hold their attack for 12 hours or until a member of the opposing team announces that they have taken their snapshot. Should that team accidentally break this agreement, then they will give all relevant information to their opponents in the game chat. eg. territories taken during the first turn, plus the owners of any other territory thrown into the fog as a result of the attack (Note that this does not necessarily include attack information). If all information is provided accurately after the accidental breaking of the agreement, absolutely no consequences shall result of the turn being taken early.

The agreement can be ignored, if the following conditions are met;
a) No borders are shared by both teams at the start. (Conquer Style Maps ie. Antartica, AoR I, AoR II, AoR III, Clandemonium, Feudal, Feudal Epic, Jamaica, King’s Court, Lunar War, Monsters, Peloponnesian War, Woodboro, WWII Poland)

b) If there is no intent to attack an enemy position, but to only drop, fort and leave, then the turn may be taken.

In short, the turn may be taken, if the enemy will not be losing a territory and are still able to see the map as it was on the original setup.

[hotfire]

Found it

It's in the CD and Friends archive.

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... 8&t=154654


If the second team to join a foggy game also gets the first turn, they must hold their attack for 12 hours or until a member of the opposing team announces that they have taken their snapshot. Should that team accidentally break this agreement, then they will give all relevant information to their opponents in the game chat. eg. territories taken during the first turn, plus the owners of any other territory thrown into the fog as a result of the attack (Note that this does not necessarily include attack information). If all information is provided accurately after the accidental breaking of the agreement, absolutely no consequences shall result of the turn being taken early.

The agreement can be ignored, if the following conditions are met;
a) No borders are shared by both teams at the start. (Conquer Style Maps ie. Antartica, AoR I, AoR II, AoR III, Clandemonium, Feudal, Feudal Epic, Jamaica, King’s Court, Lunar War, Monsters, Peloponnesian War, Woodboro, WWII Poland)

b) If there is no intent to attack an enemy position, but to only drop, fort and leave, then the turn may be taken.

In short, the turn may be taken, if the enemy will not be losing a territory and are still able to see the map as it was on the original setup.

part b needs to be re-written....it seems to apply to even when territory is attacked for the sake of reducing it to a 1 even to it shouldn't...

[angola]

If you reduce troops on a territory it is seen by the opponent, so while you attacked it - you didn't conquer it.

I'm not sure I understand where the confusion lies. Perhaps the rule should state that you must announce if you conquer rather than attack?

[Donelladan]

Fog rule is about not losing any information. If you do not take a territory then there is no loss of information for the other side.

It is not because your fog rule say" don't attack before 12h" that you have to follow blindly the rules. If it doesn't change anything of what would have seen the opponent team, then you can do it.

[nicestash]

I do not like the wording pertaining to "not taking a territory". If you bombard a territory, then technically you haven't taken it, but it still results in a loss of information for your opponent and is against the rules.

[codierose]

I do not like the wording pertaining to "not taking a territory". If you bombard a territory, then technically you haven't taken it, but it still results in a loss of information for your opponent and is against the rules.

its not a rule

[DaveH]

The most simple thing to do to avoid any future need for this rule, is for, in fog games, a snapshot be taken that is available to everyone.

[iAmCaffeine]

The most simple thing to do to avoid any future need for this rule, is for, in fog games, a snapshot be taken that is available to everyone.

How would that work when each team sees something different?

[DaveH]

The most simple thing to do to avoid any future need for this rule, is for, in fog games, a snapshot be taken that is available to everyone.

How would that work when each team sees something different?

Sorry, I meant that the differences to the first team's finishing snapshot would be available to the teams.

[Lord Arioch]

I myself dont use snaps but my mates do. It would be nice if the powers that are could program it so that a auto snap, available for all players is taken the moment a game starts:) or is it to dificult...? This function should be clickable so u can choose it or not from interface panel...

[iAmCaffeine]

Apparently the coding for automatic snapshots at the start of games is too complicated. Snapshots at the end of turns are automatic with the panels anyway, not that I use them.

[Coler]

Isn't it just so easy to wait 12 hrs from game start, or confirmation of a snap and then you don't have to worry about it.

That said I see this as more of an etiquette between players than a 'strict' rule of the site. If you break it you look a bit of a nob.

[squishyg]

Maybe players who want to see the board at all times should stick to sunny games.