The Roman Empire *Page 11* [Vacation]

[Gwalchmai]

In Ancient Roman times the name of the province of Achaea (yours is spelt wrongly)

As is yours. Achaea is the English translation of the classical Greek Achaia. I presume it's to make it sound the same when pronounced. The Romans, however, spelt it Achaia, even though it might have perhaps been logical for them to spell it with an ae.

[Ruben Cassar]

In Ancient Roman times the name of the province of Achaea (yours is spelt wrongly)

As is yours. Achaea is the English translation of the classical Greek Achaia. I presume it's to make it sound the same when pronounced. The Romans, however, spelt it Achaia, even though it might have perhaps been logical for them to spell it with an ae.

Sorry mate but the Romans spelt it Achaea as well in Latin.

Check this link if you don't believe me: http://www.unrv.com/roman-map-for-sale.php
and this one as well:
http://www.unrv.com/roman-empire-map.php

[Gwalchmai]

The problem with that map is that it wasn't written in Roman times. If you check through any decent Latin dictionary (Lewis and Short, Cassell, Oxford, Thesaurus Linguae Latinae) or have a read through some texts like Strabo or Pausanias you'll see it written Achaia not Achaea.

[Ruben Cassar]

The problem with that map is that it wasn't written in Roman times. If you check through any decent Latin dictionary (Lewis and Short, Cassell, Oxford, Thesaurus Linguae Latinae) or have a read through some texts like Strabo or Pausanias you'll see it written Achaia not Achaea.

The map has been done by professionals though. Personally I have come across Achaea much more than Achaia. Anyway I think that the map can be considered as a reliable source and therefore Achaea should be used.

Keep in mind that for example Judaea would be Ivdaea instead of Judaea in Roman times as well but if we make it accurate to the point where we use v instead of u and i instead of j people will find the map difficult to read and play on.

[Guiscard]

The problem with that map is that it wasn't written in Roman times. If you check through any decent Latin dictionary (Lewis and Short, Cassell, Oxford, Thesaurus Linguae Latinae) or have a read through some texts like Strabo or Pausanias you'll see it written Achaia not Achaea.

What heated debate!

Well I've just checked a few volumes of Cambridge Ancient History, which has it spelt Achaea, and my latin dictionary which spells it Achaia. I don't have access to source texts at the moment, but I'll go with Achaia. Thanks for the input.

[Guiscard]

Update time:



Toned down the white and moved the colours around. I've also gone with a single colour per cont. to stop the fading Keyogi mentioned, but kept the three bonus cities brighter.

I've also added Byzantium because, as someone commented earlier, it is not a map of a specific point in Roman history but more a 'generic' one, so the game can 'progress' (as it were) through the years.

I've also toned down the labels slightly (but can do more if needed), corrected the spelling and re-done Brittania in line with what people have suggested.

I've added a sea route from Hispania to Corsica and added a bit of shadow to bring the routes out.

The title has changed to Imperium Romanum.

The bonus legend has changed to numerals to see what people think, and I've also changed the Rome / Carthage / Byzantium but slightly to be more intuitive. Does this explain it well enough? - You must remember that these bonuses will start as neutral territories. Should they be conditional on owning a continent though? I'm tending towards not at this stage,,,

[Ruben Cassar]

Achaea or Achaia is still misspelled in the legend. Also I think Britain should be spelt Britannia. Also Tarraconensis is spelt wrongly. Consider adding an 'et' between Corsica and Sardinia.

Guiscard would you consider adding Alexandria as another major city? Another idea...would you consider adding the seas as territories which do not form part of a continent?

I am not sure about this but was Venetia called as such during the Roman Empire? I am also doubtful about Liguria but I would have to check on that and I don't have time right now.

Looking good now graphically. I love it.

[Gwalchmai]

Just realised I led you into a spelling mistake of my own there. Brittania should be Britannia. Sorry.

The map has been done by professionals though. Personally I have come across Achaea much more than Achaia. Anyway I think that the map can be considered as a reliable source and therefore Achaea should be used.

Keep in mind that for example Judaea would be Ivdaea instead of Judaea in Roman times as well but if we make it accurate to the point where we use v instead of u and i instead of j people will find the map difficult to read and play on.

You'll only come across Achaea more often in modern texts. If you go back to the Latin (still not exactly original but a lot closer) you will find Achaia.

The v for u is an interesting topic in its own right. In inscriptions it is undoubtedly that way round but in texts it seems to be different and the question text editors have to address is whether the consonantal u should be rendered as a v (most usual nowadays and the way found in dictionaries) or as a u, basically whether a word should be iuvo or iuuo, so the u in Judea would remain in a text but become a v in an inscription.

[Guiscard]

Achaea or Achaia is still misspelled in the legend. Also I think Britain should be spelt Britannia. Also Tarraconensis is spelt wrongly. Consider adding an 'et' between Corsica and Sardinia.

Guiscard would you consider adding Alexandria as another major city? Another idea...would you consider adding the seas as territories which do not form part of a continent?

I am not sure about this but was Venetia called as such during the Roman Empire? I am also doubtful about Liguria but I would have to check on that and I don't have time right now.

Looking good now graphically. I love it.

Oh yeh, don't know how I overlooked Britannia...

Will change tarraconensis...

I was going to add Alexandria, but that leaves two major cities in the African cont and it makes it a bit of a behemoth to hold - a massive bonus potential with three borders.

As for Liguri and Venetia... There certainly were the Ligurians and Veneti peoples in those areas, and this map is probably the most detailed source: (although it is pre-Imperial).

[Guiscard]

What do people think about colours / brightness of the latest update?

[Syzygy]

What do people think about colours / brightness of the latest update?

I like. I also prefer the background image in the top right corner.

Maybe Gallia and Africa should be more different colourwise. Maybe make Africa darker?

[johloh]

lookin' good...

-the colors are better but maybe still a bit bright for my personal taste...
-ocean is too white on the blue to white scale...the sea routes dont quite stand out enough from the ocean.
-i think the white glow on the continents is a little harsh too, i think it could be mellowed out a bit.
-the white glow on the map text is a little overkill too, i think it could be toned down.
-i also dont really like the fade effect on the countries...it looks to me like each country has a hill in the middle of it...
-its also not totally clear which continent byzantium is a part of...im going to guess its part of achae.
-byz and hisp continents are pretty close in color...but i think its pretty clear which is which...a little more difference could help though....running byz more to pink and hisp more to deep purple...

[Guiscard]

lookin' good...

-the colors are better but maybe still a bit bright for my personal taste...
-ocean is too white on the blue to white scale...the sea routes dont quite stand out enough from the ocean.
-i think the white glow on the continents is a little harsh too, i think it could be mellowed out a bit.
-the white glow on the map text is a little overkill too, i think it could be toned down.
-i also dont really like the fade effect on the countries...it looks to me like each country has a hill in the middle of it...
-its also not totally clear which continent byzantium is a part of...im going to guess its part of achae.
-byz and hisp continents are pretty close in color...but i think its pretty clear which is which...a little more difference could help though....running byz more to pink and hisp more to deep purple...

Darkening the ocean makes it look a bit dirty and a little too dark and dingy, but I can try anyway...

I'll mellow the blow further... I made it more cream but it can be made darker.

To be honest I really like the fade effect... I like it as it is to be honest, as it is something a little different to the standard flat colour with texture thing... What do other people think?

Byzantium is part of Achaia, and it is blue... Perhaps making Byzantium pinker will make it more obvious.

[Ruben Cassar]

Another idea...would you consider adding the seas as territories which do not form part of a continent?

[Ruben Cassar]

What do people think about colours / brightness of the latest update?

The only problem that I have is with Gallia and Germania. They look a bit too similar to me. Can you darken one of them a bit?

[Steel Panzer]

the colors i like them, but i wonder how would it look tunned down 1-2, even 3 steps.

[Guiscard]

Another idea...would you consider adding the seas as territories which do not form part of a continent?

Hmm... I had considered this in the past, but it seems it would just over-complicate things. Why particularly would you like to see the seas as territories? To me, it would seem that they would simply make it harder to attack key cities from far away.

[Ruben Cassar]

Another idea...would you consider adding the seas as territories which do not form part of a continent?

Hmm... I had considered this in the past, but it seems it would just over-complicate things. Why particularly would you like to see the seas as territories? To me, it would seem that they would simply make it harder to attack key cities from far away.

Hmm I guess you are right on this one Guiscard. It would make the map too busy.

[Wisse]

the map is too flashy and some borders are pixely

[unriggable]

Update time:

I think Britain should have a bonus of one.

Remove the Spain - Sardinia sea route, complicates the map too much.

Make Greece have a bonus of 3.

Make the sea routes less flashy.

[Guiscard]

I think Britain should have a bonus of one.

Remove the Spain - Sardinia sea route, complicates the map too much.

Make Greece have a bonus of 3.

Make the sea routes less flashy.

-Why? I think it deserves two as, although it is 3 territories and one border, it is pretty far away from the high-earning centre of the map, which would make it really hard to expand out of.

-The Spain-Sardinia sea route is there to allow more access to Roma and Carthago and blance the map out a little. If you just mean it complicates things visually, then the sea routes can certainly be toned down... If you mean for gameplay this is gonna need furhter explanation on your part.

-Greece has a bonus of 4 + 1 for Byzatium making it 5. I think this is a valid bonus as, if you hold Greece, you can attack both Roma and Carthago directly, making it vital to hold. Perhaps another sea route from Sicilia to Macedonia would add an extra border and make it more deserving of the bonus...

Anyhow, I appreciate your input but just saying 'Do a, b and c' really isn't much help. I need explanation and discussion of why you think whatever cont. should have a lower bonus, or how you'd like to see the graphics.

the map is too flashy and some borders are pixely

Do you mean bright? Or are you referring to the glow? Either way I can tone it down further if people still find it a bit too much... Borders can be sorted later. I've not blurred them at all yet.

[cairnswk]

Guiscard....I am liking your map a lot, just a couple of things on my eye -
* That pic right of Germania is superb, but looks at odds with the others at the bottom.
* can u reduce the glow on the legend names - Germania, Gallia are Britannia seem more "glowy" that others.
* luv the colours with the exception of the bright light blue sea - can you see if another blue here would change the tone of the map, and don't apply the inner shadow to it.
* also everything seems surrounded by white, seems to give everything that fuzziness....is this deliberate?

[Ruben Cassar]

Can you make an alternate version of the map with black borders? Put them both up so that we can compare which one is better.

[Guiscard]

Can you make an alternate version of the map with black borders? Put them both up so that we can compare which one is better.

Of course, hopefully you'll see why i want to stick with white

[Guiscard]

Guiscard....I am liking your map a lot, just a couple of things on my eye -
* That pic right of Germania is superb, but looks at odds with the others at the bottom.
* can u reduce the glow on the legend names - Germania, Gallia are Britannia seem more "glowy" that others.
* luv the colours with the exception of the bright light blue sea - can you see if another blue here would change the tone of the map, and don't apply the inner shadow to it.
* also everything seems surrounded by white, seems to give everything that fuzziness....is this deliberate?

I'll post a version with a darker sea and without the inner shadow so people can have a look...

Do you think I should get rid of the pics in the bottom areas? or replace them with similar prints rather than carvings?

Thanks for the comments