Hobby Lobby Ruling

[GabonX]

How is all this conservative fear mongering and women-hating answering to the point the OP made in the beginning? By eliminating access to birth control choices for one's employees (because one does not believe in humans getting abortions) will inevitably lead to said employees getting abortions because they were not allowed access through their employer's insurance to obtain contraception?

Because the OP's point was a complete fallacy. 1) Hobby Lobby already provides 16 of 20 forms of Obamacare-mandated birth control, so no employee has lost access to birth control. 2) It is impossible for Hobby Lobby to ban their employees from buying any type of birth control on their own, so exactly 0 people have lost access to birth control.

Except there's not really evidence that these other medications actually cause abortions after conception.

That depends on the definitions you're using. If you believe an abortion occurs as soon as fertilization occurs, even before implantation, then yes, some of the drugs do cause an abortion.

By the way, I believe life starts at implantation because that's the only time the fetus can actually grow, so I don't have a problem with any contraceptives (other than allowing children to use them without their parents knowing). But I do protect the right for other people to have different beliefs and to stop the government from telling people they're beliefs can't exist in public.

Don't talk to them NightStrike...

Talk through them.

[DaGip]

Why stop at fertilization? If it is all part of God's plan, then even if I jerk off and blow a load down the shower drain I am thusly aborting the potential fertilization of 250,000,000 eggs and therefor stopping the lives of 250,000,000 babies! MY GOD! I AM WORSE THAN HITLER EVER DREAMED!

[GabonX]

You seem kind of frustrated DaGip. Maybe this will help.

[GabonX]

Also,

http://www.returnofkings.com/3593/7-tra ... e-feminist

[Phatscotty]

Bottom line, in a Free country, a religious rooted company should not be forced to provide abortions. It's really that simple

They aren't selling Bibles or providing abortions. Legislating from "The Bench" is not a good thing, even in a free country. This Supreme Court decision opens the door for all sorts of religious discrimination and dissent.

The Corporate leadership of Hobby Lobby is absurdly hypocritical
in their choices and methods of operation.

If they aren't providing abortions, then what is all the fuss about?

Legislating from the bench....same with gay marriage?

[Phatscotty]

Anyone who supports the recent Supreme Court ruling AND feels that abortion should be illegal really needs to take a serious look at their values. The ability for a woman to have easy access to contraceptives helps to prevent unwanted pregnancies which LITERALLY helps to keep down the need for abortions. Thus, this ruling actually acts to INCREASE future abortions due to unwanted pregnancies.

When your interviewed by hobby lobby they explain that they are deeply rooted in the catholic community and if you dont like it , you can get the f*ck out. A win for religious LIBERTY.

Did you feel any of this actually counters what I said? Because it doesn't, at all. Did you have a response to my point?

Yeah well let's see if you feel the same way when a future president tries to force an Islamic based company to bail out the pork industry or host a gay marriage.

[DaGip]

Anyone who supports the recent Supreme Court ruling AND feels that abortion should be illegal really needs to take a serious look at their values. The ability for a woman to have easy access to contraceptives helps to prevent unwanted pregnancies which LITERALLY helps to keep down the need for abortions. Thus, this ruling actually acts to INCREASE future abortions due to unwanted pregnancies.

When your interviewed by hobby lobby they explain that they are deeply rooted in the catholic community and if you dont like it , you can get the f*ck out. A win for religious LIBERTY.

Did you feel any of this actually counters what I said? Because it doesn't, at all. Did you have a response to my point?

Yeah well let's see if you feel the same way when a future president tries to force an Islamic based company to bail out the pork industry or host a gay marriage.

You clearly have no understanding of women or gay rights, so of course this makes you an idiot, a bigot, and a racist.

[oVo]

If they aren't providing abortions, then what is all the fuss about?

Don't know why the ownership of Hobby Lobby invests in the development and production of the drugs they don't want made available to their employees. Maybe they will explain how their moral attitude is allowed to slide with their own investments and product sources at some point in the future.

...an idiot, a bigot, and a racist.

racist misogynist

[Frigidus]

Also,

http://www.returnofkings.com/3593/7-tra ... e-feminist

Just hopping on real quick to say that while there are plenty of legitimate criticisms of modern feminism that can be made, Return of Kings is not exactly the kind of guy you want to be aligning yourself with.

[GabonX]

Also,

http://www.returnofkings.com/3593/7-tra ... e-feminist

Just hopping on real quick to say that while there are plenty of legitimate criticisms of modern feminism that can be made, Return of Kings is not exactly the kind of guy you want to be aligning yourself with.

Thanks for letting me know.

[Phatscotty]

I support the ruling , If your logical you should too.

If you're logical you will realize that this means "religious moral grounds" can be used to legally circumnavigate existing law.

What Woodruff has been attempting to express: He thinks Pro-Lifers who are anti-abortion should support all forms of birth control and women's healthcare so that less abortions are necessary.

Pro-Lifers should be known as Pro-Birthers, since their actions show they care little about what happens to people after they enter this world. Once they're here food, clothing, healthcare and a place to live is their problem and of no concern to Pro-Lifers.

Money trumps life? That's a slippery slope. And Woodruff is not the judge of how other people should live their lives and what values they should have, nor is he correct about birth control being supported in all forms by pro-lifers. Maybe that is true for him and people like him, and it wouldn't be the first time someone thought everyone thinks the same way they do.

And I don't think you are right either about pro-life people not caring what happens to people after they are born. Maybe they care more about life on principle; I don't find that unreasonable at all. Obviously nobody here is running around naked and nobody here is starving to death, so really you are pushing the hyperbole angle.

I do understand somewhat your point, but really that's only a point when the government is responsible for everything for all persons, and I do understand things like healthcare and food are becoming harder and harder to afford, where we differ is the reason why those things are happening. The purchasing power of our currency buys less and less, and I understand the natural human tendency to demand the government give aid, and a compassionate society should, but that does nothing to deal with the root of the problem and actually makes it worse. The more money we print, the less purchasing power it will have. And many of you just want to keep printing the money to keep giving aid and government programs without even thinking about where the money comes from, dare I say not even caring, but the bottom line is things will continue to get more and more expensive so long as our currency is worth less and less, which only makes the problems bigger and bigger, which only demands a government that is bigger and bigger, which only demands that we print more and more money. The issues will never be 'fixed' the way we are going, we are only papering our problems over, kicking the can down the road. And while it might work for the short term, it's absolutely impossible to sustain in the long term.

We need real solutions, and that's not going to happen when we continue to turn our backs on our principles.

[GabonX]

The purchasing power of our currency buys less and less, and I understand the natural human tendency to demand the government give aid, and a compassionate society should, but that does nothing to deal with the root of the problem and actually makes it worse. The more money we print, the less purchasing power it will have. And many of you just want to keep printing the money to keep giving aid and government programs without even thinking about where the money comes from, dare I say not even caring, but the bottom line is things will continue to get more and more expensive so long as our currency is worth less and less, which only makes the problems bigger and bigger, which only demands a government that is bigger and bigger, which only demands that we print more and more money. The issues will never be 'fixed' the way we are going, we are only papering our problems over, kicking the can down the road. And while it might work for the short term, it's absolutely impossible to sustain in the long term.

We need real solutions, and that's not going to happen when we continue to turn our backs on our principles.

Scott, you cannot help these people. The solution is to take care of your own. We know that recessions tend to hit hard towards the end of a President's second term, and this time we have a currency bubble... So buy bullion now so you can cash in and buy stocks when they bottom out some time in the next two years.

Thank me later.

[Phatscotty]

If they aren't providing abortions, then what is all the fuss about?

Don't know why the ownership of Hobby Lobby invests in the development and production of the drugs they don't want made available to their employees. Maybe they will explain how their moral attitude is allowed to slide with their own investments and product sources at some point in the future.

Try to muck it up all ya want; they don't want to support/enable abortions or the morning after pill. Reasonable to me.

[Phatscotty]

The purchasing power of our currency buys less and less, and I understand the natural human tendency to demand the government give aid, and a compassionate society should, but that does nothing to deal with the root of the problem and actually makes it worse. The more money we print, the less purchasing power it will have. And many of you just want to keep printing the money to keep giving aid and government programs without even thinking about where the money comes from, dare I say not even caring, but the bottom line is things will continue to get more and more expensive so long as our currency is worth less and less, which only makes the problems bigger and bigger, which only demands a government that is bigger and bigger, which only demands that we print more and more money. The issues will never be 'fixed' the way we are going, we are only papering our problems over, kicking the can down the road. And while it might work for the short term, it's absolutely impossible to sustain in the long term.

We need real solutions, and that's not going to happen when we continue to turn our backs on our principles.

Scott, you cannot help these people. The solution is to take care of your own. We know that recessions tend to hit hard towards the end of a President's second term, and this time we have a currency bubble... So buy bullion now so you can cash in and buy stocks when they bottom out some time in the next two years.

Thank me later.

Thanks for the tip, but I liked that a lot more when it was $4/$290,not when it's $20/$1300 (I was a commodity broker for a while). and don't think for a second people didn't call me crazy the whole time. I even heard people guaranteeing that gold would NEVER hit 400 and nobody wanted it. Then when it got expensive, everyone wanted it. Taught me a lot about herd mentality (real estate NEVER goes down!) and going against the grain, but no pain no gain. colleges even teach that it's a barbaric metal. buy low sell high, but in this case with our current situation people don't have that luxury anymore.

I have a little respect for Ovo still, but it has been waning recently. And I'm not giving up on my countrymen or my country, whether I can help or not, I am still gonna do everything I can, I'm not turning my back on the sacrifices of our founders and the generations hence. They had good ideas that were worth risking their lives, and they deserve to be stood up for today and hopefully forever.

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good people do nothing. I understand the whole destroyer concept from Atlas Shrugged, and I may be Dagny Taggarting, but that's just what's inside of me and who I am.

[oVo]

You do know that the founders of this country created a Republic and not a Democracy. I have mixed feelings on the Supreme Court ruling and wonder why such a thing was pushed this far in the first place. There may be more to this than has been revealed, as to the true intent behind these "religious convictions."

I lean in the direction of "Choice" and not the imposition of religious morals on others. If you're a genuine believer? Let God be the judge and trust the divine being to sort it out when the time comes.

[Night Strike]

You do know that the founders of this country created a Republic and not a Democracy. I have mixed feelings on the Supreme Court ruling and wonder why such a thing was pushed this far in the first place. There may be more to this than has been revealed, as to the true intent behind these "religious convictions."

I lean in the direction of "Choice" and not the imposition of religious morals on others. If you're a genuine believer? Let God be the judge and trust the divine being to sort it out when the time comes.

Except Hobby Lobby is not imposing their owner's religious morals on others. In fact, it was actually the pro-abortion crowd and the government forcing their religious morals on the owners of Hobby Lobby by forcing them to pay for someone else's contraceptives and abortion-causing drugs. If you're truly pro-choice, people would make their own choice then pay for their own choices instead of making a choice and forcing someone else to pay for it.

[DaGip]

You do know that the founders of this country created a Republic and not a Democracy. I have mixed feelings on the Supreme Court ruling and wonder why such a thing was pushed this far in the first place. There may be more to this than has been revealed, as to the true intent behind these "religious convictions."

I lean in the direction of "Choice" and not the imposition of religious morals on others. If you're a genuine believer? Let God be the judge and trust the divine being to sort it out when the time comes.

Except Hobby Lobby is not imposing their owner's religious morals on others. In fact, it was actually the pro-abortion crowd and the government forcing their religious morals on the owners of Hobby Lobby by forcing them to pay for someone else's contraceptives and abortion-causing drugs. If you're truly pro-choice, people would make their own choice then pay for their own choices instead of making a choice and forcing someone else to pay for it.

I started reading and thought to myself,"You know, Night Strike is making a really good point..."

All except the part that governments and pro-choice individuals have a "religion" and are "forcing" this on people.

Okay, so the speed limit is 55...you get caught speeding...somehow the government is forcing it's "religious belief" that 55 is the best speed limit on you and therefor you have to pay a fine.

Dude...what fucking planet did you just land on?

[targetman377]

People are so focused on this issue.. Here is an idea lets have Capital system play it out? You see its simple if you don't like how a company treats its employees fine don't shop there! wow problem solved if you work there and feel your benefits are not what they should be change your job.. some might say that's hard to do but if your a cashier at hobbie lobby i assure you can find the same job at target or wall mart or any other retail. and if more people leave then the price that hobby lobby has to pay to employ people then people make more money!!! you see this whole argument is just really silly Who have a choice to shop there or not, to work there or not. its that simple. if everyone stops shopping there because of the policy they introduce then fine it goes under a new store will take its place!!! woot woot capitalism win.

[DaGip]

People are so focused on this issue.. Here is an idea lets have Capital system play it out? You see its simple if you don't like how a company treats its employees fine don't shop there! wow problem solved if you work there and feel your benefits are not what they should be change your job.. some might say that's hard to do but if your a cashier at hobbie lobby i assure you can find the same job at target or wall mart or any other retail. and if more people leave then the price that hobby lobby has to pay to employ people then people make more money!!! you see this whole argument is just really silly Who have a choice to shop there or not, to work there or not. its that simple. if everyone stops shopping there because of the policy they introduce then fine it goes under a new store will take its place!!! woot woot capitalism win.

So,...you're saying you believe in Pro-Choice then.

[targetman377]

People are so focused on this issue.. Here is an idea lets have Capital system play it out? You see its simple if you don't like how a company treats its employees fine don't shop there! wow problem solved if you work there and feel your benefits are not what they should be change your job.. some might say that's hard to do but if your a cashier at hobbie lobby i assure you can find the same job at target or wall mart or any other retail. and if more people leave then the price that hobby lobby has to pay to employ people then people make more money!!! you see this whole argument is just really silly Who have a choice to shop there or not, to work there or not. its that simple. if everyone stops shopping there because of the policy they introduce then fine it goes under a new store will take its place!!! woot woot capitalism win.

So,...you're saying you believe in Pro-Choice then.

what i am saying is simple if you don't like a company than you have a choice.

and yes i don't think there should be law making abortions illegal. Saying that i don't agree with it personal but thats my choice. and yes i am OK with this ruling. Just as i think there should not be a law to to force people to do pay for something they don't agree with.

[oVo]

What i am saying is simple if you don't like a company than you have a choice.

A simple conclusion that makes sense.

[AndyDufresne]

Just as i think there should not be a law to to force people to do pay for something they don't agree with.

Except for taxes. We all pay for lots of things that we'd rather not see it go towards.


--Andy

[targetman377]

Just as i think there should not be a law to to force people to do pay for something they don't agree with.

Except for taxes. We all pay for lots of things that we'd rather not see it go towards.


--Andy

ANDY STOP SCREWING UP MY ANALOGY WITH LOGIC

Ok Andy but in honest yes you actually still have a choice there. However this one is harder to pull off cause there are more then one country and all you have to do is move into another country where you like where the taxes go. also if you can't move!! and you live in a democracy or republic get out and vote or run for office i see it know ANDY the Monkey here to set all you politicians straight!!

[Night Strike]

You do know that the founders of this country created a Republic and not a Democracy. I have mixed feelings on the Supreme Court ruling and wonder why such a thing was pushed this far in the first place. There may be more to this than has been revealed, as to the true intent behind these "religious convictions."

I lean in the direction of "Choice" and not the imposition of religious morals on others. If you're a genuine believer? Let God be the judge and trust the divine being to sort it out when the time comes.

Except Hobby Lobby is not imposing their owner's religious morals on others. In fact, it was actually the pro-abortion crowd and the government forcing their religious morals on the owners of Hobby Lobby by forcing them to pay for someone else's contraceptives and abortion-causing drugs. If you're truly pro-choice, people would make their own choice then pay for their own choices instead of making a choice and forcing someone else to pay for it.

I started reading and thought to myself,"You know, Night Strike is making a really good point..."

All except the part that governments and pro-choice individuals have a "religion" and are "forcing" this on people.

Okay, so the speed limit is 55...you get caught speeding...somehow the government is forcing it's "religious belief" that 55 is the best speed limit on you and therefor you have to pay a fine.

Dude...what fucking planet did you just land on?

The government paid for building the roads, so they regulate it. That has exactly nothing to do with forcing me to buy birth control for somebody else who refuses to buy their own.

[danfrank666]

I support the ruling , If your logical you should too.

If you're logical you will realize that this means "religious moral grounds" can be used to legally circumnavigate existing law.

What Woodruff has been attempting to express: He thinks Pro-Lifers who are anti-abortion should support all forms of birth control and women's healthcare so that less abortions are necessary.

Pro-Lifers should be known as Pro-Birthers, since their actions show they care little about what happens to people after they enter this world. Once they're here food, clothing, healthcare and a place to live is their problem and of no concern to Pro-Lifers.

Not that what the supreme courts states is binding to all but there opinion is what the debate is all about , Opinion states , there are alternative contraception methods and this ruling would not burden women. ( SO ALL YOU PROGRESSIVES EAT SHIT AND DIE ) 2nd , This wasn`t a constitutional issue but a challenge in the statute of the OC law. Which any fair minded individual realizes the OC Overhaul needs some help. To say the least.

I`m not anti-abortion, I am anti 21st century liberal, progressive ,cocksucka ,jackass , whatever you want to call them. Off the subject , Where are the illegal women and children being bused to ? Any idea ? ............................. Since the popular vote will NEVER determine the presidency , They are being shipped to "right wing districts". To topple the vote . I live on LONG ISLAND and have witnessed this first hand in the late 90`s and early 21st. Why is mexico giving these people free passage ? Why the sudden push for immigration reform, All of you hospitality workers should be against this , it will effect your livelihood guaranteed. No fear mongering there just the facts