WWII - Eastern Front-statistic page 1 [Quenched]5000 finish

Nikolai · Post by **Nikolai** » Tue May 22, 2007 11:05 am

Thanks, Guiscard, I thought I might have to tell him to shut up.

hulmey · Post by **hulmey** » Tue May 22, 2007 2:13 pm

Complaining dont get you anywhere mate......

I'll say my 2 pence worth and if they dont take heed then f*ck it.

WidowMakers · Post by **WidowMakers** » Tue May 22, 2007 8:50 pm

First off I would like to say that your map Qwert, is really good. Th3e first time I saw it I was very pleased with the way things were going. Then after looking a little closer I realized there WERE several things that needed to be fixed.

The army circles were way off and the jagged edges of the territories look really bad. Based on what I have read, several people suggested that you fix them. You then had one of two options. 1) Listen to the suggestions and fix the map. 2) Ignore teh suggestion and go on for 113 pages of why the foundry has problems and is not fair.

Well I don't know about you (well actually I do. There are 113 pages on this topic. You chose #2) I would have fixed teh issues and moved on. I have made 3 maps for the site. And every map has had things about it that I would say were OK. The skull on the 8 Thoughts map. I made it and liked it. Then several others commented on how it look poor. Did I complain about how the foundry is not fair? Was I mad that someone did not like my map? NO! I FIXED IT!!!! That is it I fixed the issue that others brough to my attention. I have done that for every map I have made. And so have every other map maker. I don't know if there has ever been so much garbage thrown around over such stupid stuff.

Listen no one is saying you are a bad map maker. They are saying that you need ot make some more final small tweaks to the map. JUST DO IT!

Well if you are not I will. The first map you see it the one you had posted on the first page earlier this morning. It is gone for some reason.
The second map I made in 1 hour and 17 minutes. I fixed the army circles color and positon. I also touched up the borders. 1 hour and 17 minutes. I did not even have original file. Imagine what you could have done 2 months ago if you would have just listened and fixed these small issues.
Original

Widowmakers Touchups

I know this picture does not address all of the issues such as the sea text (I actually like that) and the word below your name (??) but it does show that the changes requested are not so insurmountable that you could never do them.

DiM · Post by **DiM** » Wed May 23, 2007 3:40 am

i agree with the fact that this map has some issues that need to be fixed, issues that aren't that hard or time consuming as proved by wm's version. BUT qwert does have a point. he has not been treated like other map makers. the mere fact that he was not approved final forge even though his map is 99.99 complete is proof os this. lone prophet's map has bigger issues and is in final forge, d-day has gameplay issues and is in final forge. and this one needs just some blurring and army circles moving and it's not final forged.
in this debate everybody is wrong and at the same time they do have a point.

qwert is right about him not being treated fairly while he is wrong for not taking time to adress the issues

andy and keyogi are wrong about not forging this but they are right about the small issues.

the smart thing would be that andy comes and final forges this map and says he wants those touchups for quenching. i'm sure qwert will do it then.

yeti_c · Post by **yeti_c** » Wed May 23, 2007 3:45 am

The lighter shadows work wonders for the map...

C.

Qwert · Post by **Qwert** » Wed May 23, 2007 4:05 am

Quote:
KEYOGI wrote:
Ok, first thing I'm going to mention is the territory names since they seem to be the latest issue. I'm fine with all of them except for one... Isthmus of Perekop. It's quite long and I'm wondering what sort of impact it will have on the drop-down menu. Would it be a problem to just call it Perekop?

The other major issue recently was the borders. These still appear to be a problem. I wonder if reducing the opacity of them slightly would help.

The colour of Stalingrad Army is bothering me. It's pretty awful and unless it has some significance I'm sure you could come up with a nicer shade of green.

Another concern is the army shadows. They pratically disappear in von Rundstedt Army and it's something that I think could be fixed in one of two ways. Change the shade of the army shadows themselves or change the shade of von Rundstedt Army so the shadows are more visible. The shadows also seem to have a faint white edge on them which gives them a rough/aliased look.

It was mentioned some time ago (by I can't remember who) that the legend shadows could possibly be changed. I don't mind the legend staying as it is, but I would like to see the helmets and star given a shadow as well to lift them off the board like the rest of the legend.

I'm not sure the sea labels are needed. They kind of look cramped in there.

Lastly, is there any signifcance to the pictures and foreign text underneath your name on the map? I'm curious to what they mean/represent.

Logical explanation
Quote:
qwert wrote
Now i will try to logical explane Keyogis sugestion
1.I have big and long discusion of names, and finaly i agree with people that all names must be in 1 translation and these translation is russian, and every names is original translation. So these problem is finish.
2.Borders-every body know that i present 5 diferent example with 5 diferent smooth and blur borders with 10%,15%,20%,25% and 30% of opacity, and majority vote for 20%.
3.The colours of Stalingrad Army, well i must say that nobody complains with these, because in begining i work with colours of territory, even Keyogi dont have problems with these, but when i finaly finish last issue, he sudenly dont like colours of these terittory, and why he dont say these in begining, but he waith 2 month to say these. If i dont like something i will say right now and dont waith 2 month.
4. All army shadows is same, and when you put army number, you can se all numbers without any problems.
5.I realy dont understand why Keyogi whait and when something pass majority approval he start complaining, these also been finish and nobody have major complain(except bonus value)
6.Sea labels- well these not decision of 1 person, and i have atention to put in poll vote,I put sea labels to people can better understand location of EAstern Front.

If people say that yours version is better then mine and can be quenched,then i will agree with these.Thanks Widow.

unriggable · Post by **unriggable** » Wed May 23, 2007 5:21 am

Rubben Cassar wrote:If that map ever gets quenched it would create a lot of trouble in the foundry because it's even worse than Montreal visually and gameplay wise it's non existent!

I'ts not that the gameplay is nonexistent, it's just different.

WidowMakers · Post by **WidowMakers** » Wed May 23, 2007 5:26 am

unriggable wrote:
Rubben Cassar wrote:If that map ever gets quenched it would create a lot of trouble in the foundry because it's even worse than Montreal visually and gameplay wise it's non existent!

I'ts not that the gameplay is nonexistent, it's just different.

He was talking about doodle earth I believe.

Qwert · Post by **Qwert** » Wed May 23, 2007 10:22 am

Widow you implement two thing what i like -Army shadows and borders, but i think that major issue dont been changing of all map colours,because my map is darken and yours is lighten.
You are great map maker, can you show me how will map look if you look Keyogis sugestion,of course if you have time. Thanks again

Guiscard · Post by **Guiscard** » Wed May 23, 2007 11:46 am

DiM wrote:the smart thing would be that andy comes and final forges this map and says he wants those touchups for quenching. i'm sure qwert will do it then.

But surely no map should have a 'limit' in terms of improvements, and surely that's the point of final forge! Andy can't say 'do A, B and C and then I'll quench it because then, if and when more issues arise which haven't been considered yet, Qwert will say 'no fair! you said only these things then Quench!'

We don't just give the map makers a list of corrections that need to be made. The foundry is a moving and developing process and unexpected criticisms always arise. A map is quenched when they stop arising, not when the map-maker has completed a set number of changes.

DiM · Post by **DiM** » Wed May 23, 2007 12:17 pm

Guiscard wrote:
DiM wrote:the smart thing would be that andy comes and final forges this map and says he wants those touchups for quenching. i'm sure qwert will do it then.

But surely no map should have a 'limit' in terms of improvements, and surely that's the point of final forge! Andy can't say 'do A, B and C and then I'll quench it because then, if and when more issues arise which haven't been considered yet, Qwert will say 'no fair! you said only these things then Quench!'

We don't just give the map makers a list of corrections that need to be made. The foundry is a moving and developing process and unexpected criticisms always arise. A map is quenched when they stop arising, not when the map-maker has completed a set number of changes.

actually this map is fairly finished other than those few touch-ups there's nothing else to do.
but still i just said andy wants those touch-ups for quenching. i did not say that's all he needs for quenching. or that quenching is guaranteed if those issues are solved.

hulmey · Post by **hulmey** » Wed May 23, 2007 12:19 pm

Guiscard do you honestly think this map does not deserve to be final forged

DiM · Post by **DiM** » Wed May 23, 2007 12:22 pm

hulmey wrote:Guiscard do you honestly think this map does not deserve to be final forged

?

hulmey · Post by **hulmey** » Wed May 23, 2007 12:31 pm

DiM · Post by **DiM** » Wed May 23, 2007 12:37 pm

you forgot to add the question mark

MarVal · Post by **MarVal** » Wed May 23, 2007 12:52 pm

It can not be taken so long, before we can play. I liked the map at the beginning. Great gameplay and strategy shall we play on it, when it will be quenched...

Itsd just a matter of time.... :wink:

Grtz
MarVal

Guiscard · Post by **Guiscard** » Wed May 23, 2007 12:54 pm

hulmey wrote:Guiscard do you honestly think this map does not deserve to be final forged

I didn't make any comment on whether it should or shouldn't be...

I'm only saying that we cannot say 'fix a,b and c and then we'll quench'. There may be further comments and more criticism, whether or not it is final forged. I'd say it probably was deserving of final forge status, but it will do more harm than good because it will convince qwert that he only needs to do a certain number of set things to get quenched. Then, when someone says' actually I think this may need looking at' and we realise we'd overlooked something (for example the colour of the grey continent when combined with army circles is something I missed earlier) he will explode again!

Qwert · Post by **Qwert** » Wed May 23, 2007 1:18 pm

Guiscard, i think that Final forge status get every map who finish all major issue,these wrote when andy Forged some maps,or maybe i dont read good.
I also belive that for final forge in developmental rule must write that you have to apply all major issue.Every body have some sugestion but if we start changing everything then map work will bee very long.
I want to apply sugestion to everybody be happy, and i think that sugestion like"I dont like these colours"its not good.I realy want to belive that these is Keyogi give me sugestion, but for me now its look like order, he put sugestion and dont want to see mine logical explanation. We must talk with others people together,to find logical solution. I read yours post and for me look that you say"He is mod and hes sugestion is supreme",i can not work in these way.
I realy want to finish these map, and i hope that Keyogi will find time to see my explanation,for now when i see widow point of view i can agree with army circle that hes is better and i can apply if people agree,also i can take hes borders and put in mine map if people agree.

hulmey · Post by **hulmey** » Wed May 23, 2007 4:53 pm

im also fucking pissed off that the 2 mods of the foundry dont even answer my questions when the map foundry is pouring it heart out.

Well done chaps now go stick you fucking head in the sand!!!!!!!!!!

DiM · Post by **DiM** » Wed May 23, 2007 4:58 pm

hulmey wrote:im also fucking pissed off that the 2 mods of the foundry dont even answer my questions when the map foundry is pouring it heart out.

Well done chaps now go stick you fucking head in the sand!!!!!!!!!!

well after i wrote a really long post. keyogi answered with an insulting emoticon. really nice attitude coming from a mod. at least andy showed some maturity and answered.

AndyDufresne · Post by **AndyDufresne** » Wed May 23, 2007 5:28 pm

Hulmey, I missed your questions, what are they?

I've been talking with Qwert via PM.

Qwert, do you mind posting what version you are working with? (WidowMaker's?)

--Andy

Qwert · Post by **Qwert** » Wed May 23, 2007 5:45 pm

Like i send you message i can apply army circle and borders, because these will been issue,but colours of all map never been issue and hes map is lighten and mine is darken so i think that colours stays.
You dont give me answer-do you like widows army circles and borders, if you like then these change will be sucesfull, and i hope will finish with borders and circles issue.

AndyDufresne · Post by **AndyDufresne** » Wed May 23, 2007 5:51 pm

Qwert, post whatever map you are going with. Lets get an image up in the thread.

--Andy

Qwert · Post by **Qwert** » Wed May 23, 2007 6:24 pm

I dont have time to change army shadows,and borders like Widow show me, but i will put widow borders and army shadows in these map, and i think that with these combination its will look good.

AndyDufresne · Post by **AndyDufresne** » Wed May 23, 2007 6:34 pm

So are you saying you are going to use his image where he updated the borders and the circles? If so, post that image.

--Andy