Re: 1v1: Promontory Summit [10.3.14] BETA

kizkiz · Post by **kizkiz** » Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:01 pm

Dondersteen wrote:I played this where the reos were set to chained and you wind up with lots of orphaned troops strung out behind you. It's unlikely to be won in "a couple turns" unless you have reos set to unltd. Also, I held the gold spike but the game didn't end because I hadn't conquered Brigham Young. I can see where you have to hold all stations along the line, but since the resources are on spur lines, they should be optional for victory. Particularly given that taking them is not really that advantageous unless reos are set to unltd: with all those stacks strung out behind you and only one reo per turn, they become quite useless. (Unless your oppo has made it to your side of the board - a) which should rarely happen and b) is highly unlikely to be a recoverable position, unless you roll all 6s.)

I like the concept of the map - and it reminds me of the Corb Lund song Maybe put a note on it somewhere that you recommend playing with reos = unltd and/or make resources optional to hold, MHO.

With a bit of dice luck (which does seem to be a determining factor over strategy) a guy can play lots of these and rank up very quickly...

Nice work

Ummm, where to start!
1. You need all 4 spikes to win, not just one gold
2. You don't need all your supply depos to win
3. Your oppo cannot possibly get his troops on to your side of the board
4. Your linked game is fog, so we can't see your troops

Dondersteen · Post by **Dondersteen** » Sat Mar 15, 2014 3:14 pm

1. This isn't entirely clear from the wording of the instructions.
4. The game has finally ended, you can see it all now.

Dondersteen · Post by **Dondersteen** » Sat Mar 15, 2014 3:15 pm

1. This isn't entirely clear from the wording of the instructions.
4. The game has finally ended, you can see it all now.

kizkiz · Post by **kizkiz** » Sat Mar 15, 2014 3:55 pm

Dondersteen wrote:1. This isn't entirely clear from the wording of the instructions.

Agreed. Which is why I mentioned it myself

Dondersteen · Post by **Dondersteen** » Sat Mar 15, 2014 7:51 pm

I currently met victory conditions for a turn or two in Game 14149437 and it hasn't ended yet. I don't currently own most of the green terrs, nor the red one, but have held all four spikes for 2 turns.

Dondersteen · Post by **Dondersteen** » Sat Mar 15, 2014 7:53 pm

(And used to be a software test system developer) :geek:

Dondersteen · Post by **Dondersteen** » Sat Mar 15, 2014 7:53 pm

(And used to be a software test system developer) :geek:

Gilligan · Post by **Gilligan** » Sat Mar 15, 2014 8:13 pm

Dondersteen wrote:I currently met victory conditions for a turn or two in Game 14149437 and it hasn't ended yet. I don't currently own most of the green terrs, nor the red one, but have held all four spikes for 2 turns.

You also need your whole rail line.

Dondersteen · Post by **Dondersteen** » Sat Mar 15, 2014 9:41 pm

I've had the whole rail line since turn 13 or so, left a stack of 29 on Green River on turn 19, now it's turn 20, and bombarded the other guy's red a couple of times in between. Something's definitely not right.

Gilligan · Post by **Gilligan** » Sat Mar 15, 2014 9:43 pm

Dondersteen wrote:I've had the whole rail line since turn 13 or so, left a stack of 29 on Green River on turn 19, now it's turn 20, and bombarded the other guy's red a couple of times in between. Something's definitely not right.

Can you please send me a screenshot? No way I can diagnose anything otherwise.

Dondersteen · Post by **Dondersteen** » Sat Mar 15, 2014 9:44 pm

Game just ended once turn limit reached. Had victory conditions anywhere from turn 12-15. Suggest reconstructing the game from the logs.

I tried upload to before without success.

Gilligan · Post by **Gilligan** » Sat Mar 15, 2014 9:46 pm

As far as the XML shows, it has all of the proper conditions...see also, Game 14149741 where someone won from the south. I'm not sure what to say here. If you see it again, be sure to take a screenshot.

patrick1234321 · Post by **patrick1234321** » Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:45 pm

Like the layout of the map and how quickly it is played, don`t like how much luck is involved, good map though thanks for making it.

Vlasov · Post by **Vlasov** » Sun Mar 16, 2014 10:00 am

At the end of my last turn I owned all four "spikes" and my entire rail line (in fact, I had every UP territory in the East/bottom half of the map). I thought that would be the victory condition. What gives?

I don't know how to take a screenshot. However, it is game #14136973... still in progress as of this posting.

Gilligan · Post by **Gilligan** » Sun Mar 16, 2014 10:24 am

Vlasov wrote:At the end of my last turn I owned all four "spikes" and my entire rail line (in fact, I had every UP territory in the East/bottom half of the map). I thought that would be the victory condition. What gives?

I don't know how to take a screenshot. However, it is game #14136973... still in progress as of this posting.

Victory conditions are checked at the start of your turn, not the end.

Vlasov · Post by **Vlasov** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 5:00 am

That means it would be impossible to win unless you can heavily reinforce your own bridge so that your opponent can't "sabotage/bombard" it on his next turn from his "starting point" (Sacramento or Omaha) -- or unless you're using the Nukes or Zombies option, and can take out opponent's starting point by sheer luck.

On most other maps victory is achieved immediately once the conditions are met, unless they specifically include holding X territories(s) for one or more full turns. If that applies to Promontory Summit, it should be spelled out clearly.

Once again, at the end of another turn, I have all four spikes and my entire rail line from Omaha to Promontory Summit UP -- game #14136973.

kizkiz · Post by **kizkiz** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 6:46 am

Vlasov wrote:Once again, at the end of another turn, I have all four spikes and my entire rail line from Omaha to Promontory Summit UP -- game #14136973.

Your oppo bombs your bridge on his turn,
At no point have you held the victory condition at the start of your turn

Freaky1 · Post by **Freaky1** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:38 am

I like it, it adds a different head to head element on CC. In most of the above critiques they fail to acknowledge that there is bombardment that does add a high strategy element as well as a fall back for the player whom the dice gods are pooping on. Nice work.

Gilligan · Post by **Gilligan** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:09 am

Vlasov wrote:That means it would be impossible to win unless you can heavily reinforce your own bridge so that your opponent can't "sabotage/bombard" it on his next turn from his "starting point" (Sacramento or Omaha) -- or unless you're using the Nukes or Zombies option, and can take out opponent's starting point by sheer luck.

On most other maps victory is achieved immediately once the conditions are met, unless they specifically include holding X territories(s) for one or more full turns. If that applies to Promontory Summit, it should be spelled out clearly.

Once again, at the end of another turn, I have all four spikes and my entire rail line from Omaha to Promontory Summit UP -- game #14136973.

Not true, vlasov. No maps have immediate win conditions. It is always at the start of your turn.

Vlasov · Post by **Vlasov** » Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:19 am

I stand corrected, Gilligan. I was confused because I usually play simple games where I only (occasionally!) win after eliminating all opponents. I didn't realize that victory (win) checking occurs at the start of a player's turn.

The game cited above is still in progress, and it has the Zombie option. I think we're in for a long haul...

Also I agree with Freaky1's comment above -- bombardment of the Bridges adds a high strategy element.

Gilligan · Post by **Gilligan** » Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:23 am

Vlasov wrote:I stand corrected, Gilligan. I was confused because I usually play simple games where I only (occasionally!) win after eliminating all opponents. I didn't realize that victory (win) checking occurs at the start of a player's turn.

The game cited above is still in progress, and it has the Zombie option. I think we're in for a long haul...

Also I agree with Freaky1's comment above -- bombardment of the Bridges adds a high strategy element.

Not to worry, that is why we are here

However, it should be noted that losing conditions are checked immediately.

Donelladan · Post by **Donelladan** » Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:12 am

I have played the map 2 times, but I find it so simple, that I completely fail to find any strategy to it.
Does someone has a different idea about the map?
So far the only strategic "thing" i can see is, don't fort out from your starting position after a few rounds in order to be able to bombard opponent to prevent him from winning. But except that ... just rolling dice and observe who has the best one so far.

Also, I am afraid the game can be completely blocked for some setting. Let say adjacent game without round limit.... How a game like that would ever end? I won't even try it !

kizkiz · Post by **kizkiz** » Thu Mar 20, 2014 9:16 am

Donelladan wrote:I have played the map 2 times, but I find it so simple, that I completely fail to find any strategy to it.
Does someone has a different idea about the map?
So far the only strategic "thing" i can see is, don't fort out from your starting position after a few rounds in order to be able to bombard opponent to prevent him from winning. But except that ... just rolling dice and observe who has the best one so far.

Also, I am afraid the game can be completely blocked for some setting. Let say adjacent game without round limit.... How a game like that would ever end? I won't even try it !

Having played a few i can say there is a little bit more to it than that.
You have to decide where to have yoru stack effectively. Do you build out of sight and move in, stack the bridge, stack your stake, stake his stake to block him coming in? I admit it's not a huge amount, but there's a few bits i'm noticing.
As for adjacent, well it would take ages, but you could build a rolling stack, instead of forting it to the front every time

Teflon Kris · Post by **Teflon Kris** » Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:02 am

Excellent map with a unique gameplay for 1v 1. I really like the normal deploy being just 1 troop. Maybe some of the neutrals could be a little easier though? Some single neutrals so the game isnt too slow with no spoils?

Vlasov · Post by **Vlasov** » Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:04 am

My current game is using the Zombie option... as I said, we are in for a long haul. So far it has been a war of fortification and attrition. The Nuclear option might make things go quicker?

I concur with you, kizkiz -- this map is deceptively "simple" but there's a lot more to it. I suppose the best way to win would be to choose (or join a game with) certain "strategic" options at the outset...