All your children belong to us!

[Phatscotty]

I'm in my mid-20s, have never studied in America and became interested in this thread because I was hoping I might be able to persuade you to reflect on your views a little.

There is no need for me to cherry pick the research. There is an overwhelmingly conclusive trend that people with strong political views (anywhere in the political spectrum) tend not to change their mind once its made up, rejecting any information that would undermine the stance they have taken. If you're desperate for citations then I'll find some but it's be pretty easy (and hopefully informative) for you to look it up yourself.

Obviously such research suggests that there is little point in having this discussion with you, bjt I thought I might as well try.

If only we had an idea what research you are talking about. You can't accuse me of ignoring the research, when I am in fact asking repeatedly for you to share it.

Then why the heck would I reflect based on what you say? Since you never studied in America, how is it you came to have a certain point of view on colleges in America? if the answer is 'studies', by all means, cherry pick the best ones from the pile and let's have a look. What do you base your viewpoint on? Why would you be able to cause me to reflect??? What are you bringing to the table that I should think about?

Contribute something, please! If you are going to try (you been trying for a week now?) try all the way, just post your links and let's have it! Cuz All we have right now is you exiting the discussion when pressed for your information.

[Phatscotty]

anyone who can help think of some good questions for me to ask that finds out how much students are influenced by professors and faculty and campus environment etc, would be appreciated!

I was thinking something like "Describe the following with one word" (Dem, Rep, Tea Party, Libertarian, 1%, occupy wall street, Conservative, Liberal)

and then maybe ask them how many lib professors they have and how many Conservative, or if they feel politically pressured and by what

IDK, what kind of questions can be asked that will reflect influence/impact? There are a grip of colleges around here and I'm up for meetin some new ladies (no way will I use my age or experience or any other advantages to try to 'influence' extremely young ladies into believing things I want them to believe. If professors can't do it over an entire semester, how could I do it in less than 1 minute???? THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE!)

[mrswdk]

Relating specifically to American politics:
Malka & Lelkes, 2010 - More than Ideology...
MacCoun & Paletz, 2009 - Citizens' perceptions...
Charles et al, 1979 - Biased assimilation...
Tetlock, 1994 - Political psychology or...
Plous, 1993 - The psychology of...

People don't tend to allow themselves to be told to change their political views.

[Phatscotty]

Relating specifically to American politics:
Malka & Lelkes, 2010 - More than Ideology...
MacCoun & Paletz, 2009 - Citizens' perceptions...
Charles et al, 1979 - Biased assimilation...
Tetlock, 1994 - Political psychology or...
Plous, 1993 - The psychology of...

People don't tend to allow themselves to be told to change their political views.

But you speak as if that's 100% of students, when that really only covers about 20-30%.

And what about the large majority of students who do not have any political views, and don't know what the political views even are? And you speak as if many people don't change their first year in college, and not just political views, but all kinds of views on all kinds of things. Right or wrong, professor or environment, college changed them. And the famous first Thanksgiving back from college, where the student lectures the parents about their new perspectives on how the world really works...

That's exactly what I mean. There is so much that is not accounted for.

[Metsfanmax]

I know you guys like to use the word 'anecdotal' but it becomes more than anecdotes when all the anecdotes are one sided and happen on a regular basis.

You clearly have never read about the Texas education system.

[Phatscotty]

I know you guys like to use the word 'anecdotal' but it becomes more than anecdotes when all the anecdotes are one sided and happen on a regular basis.

You clearly have never read about the Texas education system.

I have read about how they have guns in school, but no teacher has shot any students yet. No students have been shot by anyone in those schools either, as a matter of fact. Keep that one in your pocket for when Obama gives the order to get all bent out of shape over guns again.

Anyways, about anecdotes, that's how you describe a couple of examples. The Texas education system aside, I have been sharing 'anecdotes' for over a year now, and they all point in the same direction, and there is very little time between anecdotes, which should reveal to an objective person that these are not isolated incidents, they are indicative of an agenda much larger on a regular basis than a few examples here n there,

There are so many happening on a regular basis, because that's the way it is. Not to mention, you have to figure for every audio recording of a Liberal professor bullying a Conservative student and for every video recording of a Progressive professor ridiculing a Conservative in front of the whole class or a Marxist professor making students step on the American flag for an assignment, there is at least 2 or 3 more similar incidents going on at the same time that are not being recorded, and it's more likely there are 20-30 similar incidents (maybe hundreds) that we will never hear about for each one that gets recorded and picked up by media or uploaded on the internet,

[Metsfanmax]

I know you guys like to use the word 'anecdotal' but it becomes more than anecdotes when all the anecdotes are one sided and happen on a regular basis.

You clearly have never read about the Texas education system.

I have read about how they have guns in school, but no teacher has shot any students yet. No students have been shot by anyone in those schools either, as a matter of fact. Keep that one in your pocket for when Obama gives the order to get all bent out of shape over guns again.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/1 ... 01906.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/1 ... 00385.html
http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2013/ ... -shooting/
http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?secti ... id=9246446
http://www.kbtx.com/home/headlines/Cent ... 98171.html
http://www.kltv.com/story/23544389/one- ... tball-game

You seem to have a tenuous grasp on "fact."

Anyways, about anecdotes, that's how you describe a couple of examples. The Texas education system aside, I have been sharing 'anecdotes' for over a year now, and they all point in the same direction, and there is very little time between anecdotes, which should reveal to an objective person that these are not isolated incidents, they are indicative of an agenda much larger on a regular basis than a few examples here n there,

You're posting examples that you think prove your point. Unless you can claim that the only examples of teachers making political comments in public are the very ones you have posted in this thread, then this claim is meaningless. It would be like if I created a thread and posted only examples of people who have successfully enrolled through an insurance exchange at healthcare.gov and therefore declared Obamacare a raging success.

[Phatscotty]

I know you guys like to use the word 'anecdotal' but it becomes more than anecdotes when all the anecdotes are one sided and happen on a regular basis.

You clearly have never read about the Texas education system.

I have read about how they have guns in school, but no teacher has shot any students yet. No students have been shot by anyone in those schools either, as a matter of fact. Keep that one in your pocket for when Obama gives the order to get all bent out of shape over guns again.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/1 ... 01906.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/1 ... 00385.html
http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2013/ ... -shooting/
http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?secti ... id=9246446
http://www.kbtx.com/home/headlines/Cent ... 98171.html
http://www.kltv.com/story/23544389/one- ... tball-game

You seem to have a tenuous grasp on "fact."

You seem to have just wasted a lot of time trying to score a silly point. I said schools that allow teachers to carry guns.

You seriously think I meant no student has ever been shot in a school in the history of Texas? Sometimes I think you do this on purpose

[Phatscotty]

You're posting examples that you think prove your point. Unless you can claim that the only examples of teachers making political comments in public are the very ones you have posted in this thread, then this claim is meaningless. It would be like if I created a thread and posted only examples of people who have successfully enrolled through an insurance exchange at healthcare.gov and therefore declared Obamacare a raging success.

No, I do not think that, but there are a lot more examples in the other 20 page thread that preceded this one, therefore according to you, they are meaningful.

You do that on purpose and are only interested in appearing to score a point. Again, how in the world could I possibly know every comment made by every teacher in every school in the country? Cmon Mets

[Phatscotty]

Mets, let me try to understand you better. Can you make a breif statement on the topic please (MRS too, anyone too). A couple sentences, like "only a couple professors try to brainwash students, and it barely works at that" or "there is some brainwashing, but not as much as Scotty's examples seem to indicate" or "even though Liberals greatly outnumber Conservatives when it comes to faculty, along with the hardcore Leftist teachers unions and education lobby, and we have teachers who say it's their mission to oppose the tyranny of the 1% and get awarded for it.....but none of that has any impact whatsoever, or a little bit of impact" or do you say "professors are not able to influence students on politics, so they should quit spending millions of hours and billions of dollars a year trying to influence students"

sum up in a paragraph, if yall would be so kind. It's easy to sit back and criticize and dismiss examples and introduce Texas education system (Woodruff made this famous) but never actually taking a position or making a statement on the topic. Not saying you specifically haven't, but asking if you would here.

Do you have any good objective ideas for questions to ask students to gauge influence?

[Phatscotty]

Relating specifically to American politics:
Malka & Lelkes, 2010 - More than Ideology...
MacCoun & Paletz, 2009 - Citizens' perceptions...
Charles et al, 1979 - Biased assimilation...
Tetlock, 1994 - Political psychology or...
Plous, 1993 - The psychology of...

I'm going to read these tomorrow regardless of whether or not you have read them or if you just copy pasted them, but they are going to be discussed at length.

[_sabotage_]

Ask, what solutions have been proposed to end the need for the profession being studied?

What is being done to eliminate the servicing of problems of this field and finding the end to the problem?

I would regret it if the years of study, hundreds of thousands spent on education and intentions to help cancer patients was eliminated by an easy to attain and administer cure for cancer, but don't think it should be withheld in order to maintain GDP and income inequality, but I have a hard time believing that it isn't happening.

For example, for one breast cancer patient, the doctor went through all the known expensive methods that have a high failure rate before suggesting the cheap known cure. Sure the doctor made it available, but only after he got his money.

[Metsfanmax]

Mets, let me try to understand you better. Can you make a breif statement on the topic please (MRS too, anyone too). A couple sentences, like "only a couple professors try to brainwash students, and it barely works at that" or "there is some brainwashing, but not as much as Scotty's examples seem to indicate" or "even though Liberals greatly outnumber Conservatives when it comes to faculty, along with the hardcore Leftist teachers unions and education lobby, and we have teachers who say it's their mission to oppose the tyranny of the 1% and get awarded for it.....but none of that has any impact whatsoever, or a little bit of impact" or do you say "professors are not able to influence students on politics, so they should quit spending millions of hours and billions of dollars a year trying to influence students"

sum up in a paragraph, if yall would be so kind. It's easy to sit back and criticize and dismiss examples and introduce Texas education system (Woodruff made this famous) but never actually taking a position or making a statement on the topic. Not saying you specifically haven't, but asking if you would here.

I could do this, but the NY Times already did it for me, and was posted earlier in this thread.

But contrary to conservative rhetoric, studies show that going to college does not make students substantially more liberal. The political scientist Mack Mariani and the higher education researcher Gordon Hewitt analyzed changes in student political attitudes between their freshman and senior years at 38 colleges and universities from 1999 to 2003. They found that on average, students shifted somewhat to the left — but that these changes were in line with shifts experienced by most Americans between the ages of 18 and 24 during the same period of time. In addition, they found that students were no more likely to move left at schools with more liberal faculties.

Similarly, the political scientists M. Kent Jennings and Laura Stoker analyzed data from a survey that tracked the political attitudes of about 1,000 high school students through their college years and into middle age. Their research found that the tendency of college graduates to be more liberal reflects to a large extent the fact that more liberal students are more likely to go to college in the first place.

[Crazyirishman]

anyone who can help think of some good questions for me to ask that finds out how much students are influenced by professors and faculty and campus environment etc, would be appreciated!

I was thinking something like "Describe the following with one word" (Dem, Rep, Tea Party, Libertarian, 1%, occupy wall street, Conservative, Liberal)

and then maybe ask them how many lib professors they have and how many Conservative, or if they feel politically pressured and by what

IDK, what kind of questions can be asked that will reflect influence/impact? There are a grip of colleges around here and I'm up for meetin some new ladies (no way will I use my age or experience or any other advantages to try to 'influence' extremely young ladies into believing things I want them to believe. If professors can't do it over an entire semester, how could I do it in less than 1 minute???? THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE!)

As a student, I feel I am more influenced by other students than professor's for day to day opinions. This of course changes if I am forming my opinion of Kant's metaphysics or changes in the political structure of Russia in the past decade, both of which I lean towards professors' opinions more than students.

This is because I think there exist certain spheres of influence for all the forces that exist on a college campus, and the dude/dudette that stands up and gives a lecture for 50 minutes 3 times a week doesn't penetrate into the average sphere of influence more than other students who one spends 10+ hours a week with. I feel that I am shaped more by the people I interact with, live with, and get drunk with, more than the person who I listen to to try and understand material.

[Phatscotty]

Ask, what solutions have been proposed to end the need for the profession being studied?

What is being done to eliminate the servicing of problems of this field and finding the end to the problem?

I would regret it if the years of study, hundreds of thousands spent on education and intentions to help cancer patients was eliminated by an easy to attain and administer cure for cancer, but don't think it should be withheld in order to maintain GDP and income inequality, but I have a hard time believing that it isn't happening.

For example, for one breast cancer patient, the doctor went through all the known expensive methods that have a high failure rate before suggesting the cheap known cure. Sure the doctor made it available, but only after he got his money.

Sounds like my mechanic, and the salesman at Best Buy, and the waitress trying to get me to order an appetizer by flashing her cleavage during the pitch. Of course though medicine is the last place that orders should get bumped up....good point.

Great post though, thanks

[Phatscotty]

anyone who can help think of some good questions for me to ask that finds out how much students are influenced by professors and faculty and campus environment etc, would be appreciated!

I was thinking something like "Describe the following with one word" (Dem, Rep, Tea Party, Libertarian, 1%, occupy wall street, Conservative, Liberal)

and then maybe ask them how many lib professors they have and how many Conservative, or if they feel politically pressured and by what

IDK, what kind of questions can be asked that will reflect influence/impact? There are a grip of colleges around here and I'm up for meetin some new ladies (no way will I use my age or experience or any other advantages to try to 'influence' extremely young ladies into believing things I want them to believe. If professors can't do it over an entire semester, how could I do it in less than 1 minute???? THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE!)

As a student, I feel I am more influenced by other students than professor's for day to day opinions. This of course changes if I am forming my opinion of Kant's metaphysics or changes in the political structure of Russia in the past decade, both of which I lean towards professors' opinions more than students.

This is because I think there exist certain spheres of influence for all the forces that exist on a college campus, and the dude/dudette that stands up and gives a lecture for 50 minutes 3 times a week doesn't penetrate into the average sphere of influence more than other students who one spends 10+ hours a week with. I feel that I am shaped more by the people I interact with, live with, and get drunk with, more than the person who I listen to to try and understand material.

Good point, I don't think anyone has brought that up yet, but sure students are also a big influence on other students. Now, if you can just post a study proving students influence other students....j/k!

[Phatscotty]

I believe this summarizes the mainstream narrative in American colleges


“Every child in America entering school at the age of five is mentally ill because he comes to school with certain allegiances to our founding fathers, toward our elected officials, toward his parents, toward a belief in a supernatural being, and toward the sovereignty of this nation as a separate entity. It’s up to you as teachers to make all these sick children well – by creating the international child of the future.”

1973, in the keynote speech at the Childhood International Education Seminar in Boulder, Colorado.
By Harvard psychiatrist Chester M. Pierce

[mrswdk]

A great story that goes all but unreported is how liberal Nazis have taken over American education from kindergarten through graduate school and how if you don't rehash their mantra you are doomed academically. The reason for this would be overwhelmingly liberal press. Liberals demand tolerance, but refuse to practice it. We are headed for another civil war.

Blood curdling.

[Neoteny]

Who will stop these professors from spending all their grant money on coffee machines? Rednecks with yellow snake flags, by god.

[Army of GOD]

blood can't curdle


lrn2fluiddynamics

[Metsfanmax]

blood can't curdle


lrn2fluiddynamics

So you've never heard of blood clotting? Interesting.

[Lootifer]

Merge-a-roony

[mrswdk]

WAT.

[Neoteny]

This thread. What is it?

[mrswdk]

I guess all the American football threads will soon be merged into one big thread then.