[Abandoned] Research & Conquer

[-=- Tanarri -=-]

Thanks for the update Isaiah. Let me know when it's time to do the XML

Have you gotten a start on the coordinatoes and territories yet? If not, it may be worth while getting started on those, especially if Isaiah has decided to keep the gameplay as is.

[iancanton]

a basic research only assaults its advanced one and it's own laboratory ought to be a basic research assaults only its advanced one and its own laboratory.

can u please update the first post to show the number of start positions per player in small games? do both mine and non-mine homeland regions start with n2 neutrals, with non-homeland mines being n3 and bridge mines being n4? how about non-mine non-homeland regions, or do these vary according to a neutral map prepared previously?

my own feeling is that the payback time for the researches is on the long side (so that the best strategy in most clan wars will probably be to load one player to target an enemy capital while deploying minimal troops for research) but, given the meticulous work that has already been done to balance the researches against each other, i'm most interested to see in beta how well the land neutrals compensate for this before we attempt to make adjustments.

ian.

[isaiah40]

a basic research only assaults its advanced one and it's own laboratory ought to be a basic research assaults only its advanced one and its own laboratory.

can u please update the first post to show the number of start positions per player in small games? do both mine and non-mine homeland regions start with n2 neutrals, with non-homeland mines being n3 and bridge mines being n4? how about non-mine non-homeland regions, or do these vary according to a neutral map prepared previously?

my own feeling is that the payback time for the researches is on the long side (so that the best strategy in most clan wars will probably be to load one player to target an enemy capital while deploying minimal troops for research) but, given the meticulous work that has already been done to balance the researches against each other, i'm most interested to see in beta how well the land neutrals compensate for this before we attempt to make adjustments.

ian.

The only start positions will be the labs and homeland capitals, both which will start with 3. I'll get the change in the wording next update.

[-=- Tanarri -=-]

a basic research only assaults its advanced one and it's own laboratory ought to be a basic research assaults only its advanced one and its own laboratory.

can u please update the first post to show the number of start positions per player in small games? do both mine and non-mine homeland regions start with n2 neutrals, with non-homeland mines being n3 and bridge mines being n4? how about non-mine non-homeland regions, or do these vary according to a neutral map prepared previously?

my own feeling is that the payback time for the researches is on the long side (so that the best strategy in most clan wars will probably be to load one player to target an enemy capital while deploying minimal troops for research) but, given the meticulous work that has already been done to balance the researches against each other, i'm most interested to see in beta how well the land neutrals compensate for this before we attempt to make adjustments.

ian.

Thanks for the feedback Ian, it's always nice to see new contributors

There will definitely be a lot of tweaking required to get the land neutral/research neutral balance done right. One other potential solution for the quick elimination problem that I've thought of is switching the losing ondition to holding at least one land territory and possibly making research bonuses dependent on owning your capital. That way if you lose your capital it still hurts a lot, but at least you still have a chance if you have stacks out on the board. It'll be hard to tell whether this will be necessary until it gets to beta though... there's so many things which may end up changing, but it's just impossible to tell until the map has hit beta.

[isaiah40]

OP updated with all bonuses, starting neutrals etc. Let me know if everything looks good and if I missed anything!! Will get an map update here by the end of the weekend!

[isaiah40]

Large:
[bigimg]http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/9638/pxyz.jpg[/bigimg]

Small:
[bigimg]http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/2746/5400.jpg[/bigimg]

[-=- Tanarri -=-]

Hi Isaiah,

Thanks for the updates, here's some thoughts/comments:

* The small map doesn't have the glow around the neutral territories, I'm guessing that still needs to be added?

* I think the only change you made to the map above is the addition of "no standard reinforcement bonus"?

* The colour for N (and possibly E) territories could use some tweaking so they stand out better from the neutral territories with the glow.

* The OP's section re: bonuses has a line that says "+1 per mine" but doesn't have "Mining" in front of it. Also, according to the current map the bonus is +2, which is what I think we're sticking with? If so, then the OP needs to be updated for +2 per mine

It's really nice to see this map getting so close to getting it's graphics stamp. Thanks for all of your hard work with keeping this going

[iancanton]

what happens in a triples game if u lose ur capital, then deliberately miss three turns to be eliminated, so that a teammate receives ur lab and researches? any particular advantage in owning two labs and two researches? do u then have two homelands for national pride?

ian.

[isaiah40]

what happens in a triples game if u lose ur capital, then deliberately miss three turns to be eliminated, so that a teammate receives ur lab and researches? any particular advantage in owning two labs and two researches? do u then have two homelands for national pride?

ian.

Well, if you lose your capital, you are eliminated. That is the losing condition. As for your last point, let me mull it over. I'll post later.

[isaiah40]

Hi Isaiah,

Thanks for the updates, here's some thoughts/comments:

1. The small map doesn't have the glow around the neutral territories, I'm guessing that still needs to be added?

2. I think the only change you made to the map above is the addition of "no standard reinforcement bonus"?

3. The colour for N (and possibly E) territories could use some tweaking so they stand out better from the neutral territories with the glow.

4. The OP's section re: bonuses has a line that says "+1 per mine" but doesn't have "Mining" in front of it. Also, according to the current map the bonus is +2, which is what I think we're sticking with? If so, then the OP needs to be updated for +2 per mine

It's really nice to see this map getting so close to getting it's graphics stamp. Thanks for all of your hard work with keeping this going

Thanks Tanarri!

1. Yea I totally forgot about that.
2. Pretty much except for a little rearranging I did with the legend.
3. They may, but looking at the CB tests these are the best ones thus far. I have to change N & E, and W & SE as they are too close together.
3. I'll get the OP changed to reflect what is on the map which is the +2 per mine.

I'm glad as well. It's been an uphill battle to get this back on track, but it is well worth the effort. Thank you to all who have pitched in again!

Here are the updates!!!
Items done:
1. Glow added around neutral regions on small;
2. Changed all the outer glow on all the homelands, so now they are distinguishable on the CB tests.
3. And I think that was it. LOL!

Large:
[bigimg]http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/9837/wazg.jpg[/bigimg]

Small:
[bigimg]http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/7799/3be8.jpg[/bigimg]

[cairnswk]

isaiah40...the small legend test...it's still not easily legible for me.
I think the issue is that is more squashed up to the left by comparison with the large version.
Is it possible to extend it so it takes up more of the real estate.
Also, does it need a slight drop shadow or backlight so that is reads better.

[isaiah40]

isaiah40...the small legend test...it's still not easily legible for me.
I think the issue is that is more squashed up to the left by comparison with the large version.
Is it possible to extend it so it takes up more of the real estate.
Also, does it need a slight drop shadow or backlight so that is reads better.

I'll experiment with some different colors to try and bring it out more. As for drop shadow, this text is supposed to be etched into the plate so that won't work. As for backlight, what do you mean?

[-=- Tanarri -=-]

I like the new colours you came up with. The only suggestion I can make at this point is to change either W or N to something different from each other that will still be different enough from the neutral territories... looking at the colours, some sort of pink/light purple glow may work. As it is now, I can barely tell the difference between the two colours of homelands.

I do also see what Cairn is saying regarding the small legend as well, it is a bit difficult to read in some of the areas due to the texture colour of the plate, I think.

Other than those two things, I think this is ready graphically. Is it worth getting Oliver to start on the XML at this point? I don't think there's going to be any reason to change anything that will affect the XML?

[cairnswk]

isaiah40...the small legend test...it's still not easily legible for me.
I think the issue is that is more squashed up to the left by comparison with the large version.
Is it possible to extend it so it takes up more of the real estate.
Also, does it need a slight drop shadow or backlight so that is reads better.

I'll experiment with some different colors to try and bring it out more. As for drop shadow, this text is supposed to be etched into the plate so that won't work. As for backlight, what do you mean?

Sorry i wasn't aware it was etched plate.
backlighting is just my term for outer glow

[-=- Tanarri -=-]

what happens in a triples game if u lose ur capital, then deliberately miss three turns to be eliminated, so that a teammate receives ur lab and researches? any particular advantage in owning two labs and two researches? do u then have two homelands for national pride?

ian.

This problem keeps coming back to haunt us... and just when we thought deciding on one starting spot per player solved it

Looks like we're going to need to cram another line worth of text into the legend somewhere stating something like "duplicate researches do not provide additional bonuses" or "research bonuses do not stack".

[isaiah40]

what happens in a triples game if u lose ur capital, then deliberately miss three turns to be eliminated, so that a teammate receives ur lab and researches? any particular advantage in owning two labs and two researches? do u then have two homelands for national pride?

ian.

This problem keeps coming back to haunt us... and just when we thought deciding on one starting spot per player solved it

Looks like we're going to need to cram another line worth of text into the legend somewhere stating something like "duplicate researches do not provide additional bonuses" or "research bonuses do not stack".

It doesn't matter because if you lose your capital you are eliminated from the game, so your teammates wouldn't receive what labs and researches you had.

[-=- Tanarri -=-]

what happens in a triples game if u lose ur capital, then deliberately miss three turns to be eliminated, so that a teammate receives ur lab and researches? any particular advantage in owning two labs and two researches? do u then have two homelands for national pride?

ian.

This problem keeps coming back to haunt us... and just when we thought deciding on one starting spot per player solved it

Looks like we're going to need to cram another line worth of text into the legend somewhere stating something like "duplicate researches do not provide additional bonuses" or "research bonuses do not stack".

It doesn't matter because if you lose your capital you are eliminated from the game, so your teammates wouldn't receive what labs and researches you had.

The exact scenario that ian proposed won't happen, but if in a team game one of the teammates does deadbeat, then another teammate inherits all his territories. This means it's still possible for someone to own more than one set of researches.

[OliverFA]

what happens in a triples game if u lose ur capital, then deliberately miss three turns to be eliminated, so that a teammate receives ur lab and researches? any particular advantage in owning two labs and two researches? do u then have two homelands for national pride?

ian.

Well, if you lose your capital, you are eliminated. That is the losing condition. As for your last point, let me mull it over. I'll post later.

I'd like to add my two cents about this issue:

First, the chances of a capital appearing in a nuclear spoils game is very low.

Second, the cons of allowing a player to continue playing with a lab and without a capital far outweighs the pros of "fixing" the nuclear spoils issue. So the "solution" would create more problems than it fixed.

However... If this really must be fixed, then I vote for allowing a player to continue playing as long as he has any territory from a homeland.

[isaiah40]

I say let's see how it plays in beta, and then if it needs to be changed, then we can do it at that time.

[OliverFA]

I say let's see how it plays in beta, and then if it needs to be changed, then we can do it at that time.

I agree. The best course of action for the map at this moment is to move it to beta so some actual play feedback can be collected.

[Aleena]

Though I know my opinion does not count - I second that motion - think Beta testing would really help give us the feel of the game play and what needs to be done...

[-=- Tanarri -=-]

I say let's see how it plays in beta, and then if it needs to be changed, then we can do it at that time.

Are we at the point then that Oliver should get started on the XML? I think the only possible graphical tweak that's remaining at this point is finding another colour for either N or W homeland territories which is different from the other? That shouldn't affect the XML development at all, AFAIK.

[OliverFA]

Good question Tanarri

[Dukasaur]

I don't understand why Standing Army, Conscription, and Mining have coloured titles, while National Pride, Sabotage, and Propaganda are plain black.

I haven't really followed this map, but my first impression in looking at it is that someone started colouring the titles and got bored halfway through.

[-=- Tanarri -=-]

I don't understand why Standing Army, Conscription, and Mining have coloured titles, while National Pride, Sabotage, and Propaganda are plain black.

I haven't really followed this map, but my first impression in looking at it is that someone started colouring the titles and got bored halfway through.

Hi Dukasaur and welcome to the thread.

The colours are there as a visual aid for matching the basic researches with the advanced researches. A while back (probably a couple years by now) there was some concern that the naming convention alone wasn't enough to make it obvious which basic techs matched up with which advanced ones, so after some discussion we decided to colour the techs which had matching basic/advanced versions to make it visually easier to identify matching techs.