The Wire Mafia Day 6 [4/13]

[kgb007]

still here, still not voting

[Djfireside]

I'm here as we'll. per last statement out of range and working from phone so limited until tommorrow

[spiesr]

Prod received.

unvote, vote warlord for voting without a reason

Why though? At this point it seems unlikely that he will return, so are you just voting the the guy who isn't here because it is easy? If he ends up getting replaced then his replacement will have a bunch of votes on him that he couldn't even begin to answer for. If he comes back what sort of explanation are you expecting for his action? His sole post was (what I presume to be) basically just a random vote. While it wasn't really appropriate for him to do so at that point in time and he needs to know that much more will be expected of him, is it really a good idea to base our entire Day 1 case off of this? Does what he has done really make you think he is scum or are you just going with the easy vote? (These questions more or less extended to everybody on that vote.) My vote will be staying where it is.

[jonty125]

Prod received.

unvote, vote warlord for voting without a reason

Why though? At this point it seems unlikely that he will return, so are you just voting the the guy who isn't here because it is easy? If he ends up getting replaced then his replacement will have a bunch of votes on him that he couldn't even begin to answer for. If he comes back what sort of explanation are you expecting for his action? His sole post was (what I presume to be) basically just a random vote. While it wasn't really appropriate for him to do so at that point in time and he needs to know that much more will be expected of him, is it really a good idea to base our entire Day 1 case off of this? Does what he has done really make you think he is scum or are you just going with the easy vote? (These questions more or less extended to everybody on that vote.) My vote will be staying where it is.

Well I was expecting/hoping him to return but that now he's been replaced unvote

[spiesr]

Well I was expecting/hoping him to return but that now he's been replaced unvote

He hasn't been replaced yet.

[jonty125]

Well I was expecting/hoping him to return but that now he's been replaced unvote

He hasn't been replaced yet.

The wheels are in motion.

working on a replacement for warlord5

[StubbsKVM]

Prod received.

unvote, vote warlord for voting without a reason

Why though? At this point it seems unlikely that he will return, so are you just voting the the guy who isn't here because it is easy? If he ends up getting replaced then his replacement will have a bunch of votes on him that he couldn't even begin to answer for. If he comes back what sort of explanation are you expecting for his action? His sole post was (what I presume to be) basically just a random vote. While it wasn't really appropriate for him to do so at that point in time and he needs to know that much more will be expected of him, is it really a good idea to base our entire Day 1 case off of this? Does what he has done really make you think he is scum or are you just going with the easy vote? (These questions more or less extended to everybody on that vote.) My vote will be staying where it is.

As soon as he has answered, or his replacement has posted anything at all, I will unvote. There's not much more going on.

[kgb007]

fine i'll spice things up a bit and circle back to lynx since he hasn't said anything to justify his vote despite multiple requests for justification..

Vote: kgb007

For real this time.

Vote: kgb007

For real this time.

any specific reason?

Vote: kgb007

For real this time.

you might want to follow that by some sort of explanation.

What the others said, justification is expected.

lynx_ is active in his current games as of this morning so he should have received the prod as well

I'll vote lynx_ because he still has yet to provide an explanation of his vote on me despite my post giving some initial flavor to the game, that's scum

[betiko]

hum yup, I like that case.

Also, I might be wrong, but I'm almost sure that I saw a post by lynx one night saying that he will elborate when he has more spare time or something like that, wtf? the post has disapeared. Anyone else read that post?

lynx, it is absolutely forbidden to erase your post if you did so!


also, going back I see that I missed something in chuck's post

Skillfusniper33 replaces rishaed

thought we needed 2 replacements! nevertheless skilfull hasn't even showed up..

[Iron Butterfly]

we can give him a day or two I think. perhaps thing swill pick up once school is out for everyone? It amazes me how slow the mafia board has become.

[skillfusniper33]

I am here. I was working on a case for this, but don't like how it turned out.

Will be out of action for a day or two from Thursday the 6th until at least that Sunday. Hope that isn't an issue!

Via the Vacation thread

[safariguy5]

Until we get a replacement for warlord, I will keep my vote where it is. We may have activity issues this game, best to get rid of the dead weight early.

[betiko]

So no one else remembers a post from lynx where he said he would elaborate his vote on kgb when he has time? A post erased before any answer as there is no trace left..

[spiesr]

So no one else remembers a post from lynx where he said he would elaborate his vote on kgb when he has time? A post erased before any answer as there is no trace left..

Is it possible you are confusing yourself about this post?

show

[lynx_]

Hi all, I'm back. So, as you can see, a completely unjustified vote is one way to get things going.
The issue is, I would normally follow it up with more probing, checking reactions all the way.

Anyway, what has happened while I've been gone?

Firstly, I don't think we should be voting warlord. Sure, he gave one unjustified vote then disappeared, but is that really the smoking gun we need for a lynch? The wagon on him is moving quickly, and there is nobody defending him. This suggests to me that he is probably town, certainly enough to give him a pass into tomorrow in the hope of a replacement. The question is whether his wagon is being influenced by scum or just lazy townies.

And next, we have my vote on kgb.

In an effort to nullify lynx's vote and offer something meaningful, here goes...

<tons of useful flavour information but no scum-hunting>

So, when I throw votes out as I did, I look for reactions from the voted player, specifically defensive reactions. Rather than reacting with suspicion at being voted out of the blue (I don't recall him as doing anything particularly scummy up to the point where I voted him), kgb reflexively offered up this flavour information which in itself is a null-tell but in this context appears to be self-preservation.

Then later,

I'll vote lynx_ because he still has yet to provide an explanation of his vote on me despite my post giving some initial flavor to the game, that's scum

kgb seems really worried about having a vote on him judging by this post, and appears to be using a classic chainsaw defense to protect himself from a perceived threat. My vote stays where it is.

One more thing I noticed:

Vote Jonty, his responses to recent actions have given me the vibe that he is trying to jump on everything that comes up. If I extrapolate this, possibly unreasonably, it points towards him hoping that any of that sticks and a "lynch anybody but me" mentality. This vote is weak but should suffice at this time of Day.

I like players who jump on everything that comes up. I personally think jonty is one of the towniest players in this game.
Lampshading a weak vote and justifying it with 'but it's D1' is scummy, FoS spiesr.

I'm afraid that's all I have time for (got to get ready for an interview) but I will repeat that I'm not happy with a warlord lynch. While lurker lynches look good on paper, they too often turn out to be town. A good lynch D1 can make a game much easier later on.

[betiko]

So no one else remembers a post from lynx where he said he would elaborate his vote on kgb when he has time? A post erased before any answer as there is no trace left..

Is it possible you are confusing yourself about this post?

show

Hummm yep!
I went back after looking at kgb s case on lynx and for some reason my visual memory failed me, didn t remember that answer was in a triple quoting and somehow didn t find the message when i looked.. Hum, too bad, someone erasing this kind of message would definitely have something to hide.

Regarding warlord, the idea is not to lynch him but to put pressure on him, then decide.. Of course if he disapears it s a bit complicated to put pressure on him. But i d rather not forget this when his replacement shows up.

Regarding the case on kgb, i don t know, i ve never been convinced by the defensiveness of someone. You are basically called a liar when someone votes for you no matter your alignment, and being defensive is not always suspicious when someone puts crap on your door because of missinformation/ speculations. Taking an acusation smoothly when you are scum is easier cause you are in a lying role all the way anyway. Also, lynx, you basically say he s too defensive but then you acuse him of not caring and going into flavour speculation?

[jonty125]

So in summary lynx, what you're saying is. Your vote on KGB was a 'reaction test', because KGB had done nothing to warrant a vote, and you say I'll explain later. Some time passes, and KGB then votes you for not providing your reason and you say that's scummy. I disagree with your comment that KGB was 'really worried' about your vote, but then again only KGB would know.

I disagree with your random vote in principle but I can see how you've tried to form a case using it. I disagree with your case on KGB but as of now cannot decide whether its just through a disagreeal of opinions, or that your scum looking for town to form a bandwagon.

[kgb007]

Firstly, I don't think we should be voting warlord. Sure, he gave one unjustified vote then disappeared, but is that really the smoking gun we need for a lynch? The wagon on him is moving quickly, and there is nobody defending him. This suggests to me that he is probably town, certainly enough to give him a pass into tomorrow in the hope of a replacement. The question is whether his wagon is being influenced by scum or just lazy townies.

Couldn't this post be construed as defending warlord...? As I've stated many times before, this is my first time playing mafia but because no one jumped to his defense, that automatically makes you believe he is town?

Not sure I buy that explanation (especially since you're now defending him), I'm not saying warlord is or isn't town but that's awfully weak reasoning IMO, I believe people were bandwagoning bc warlord hadn't answered for his "getting the conversation going" vote

Going back through the thread, it appears lynx, warlord and comrade all cast votes in an effort to jumpstart the game (I'm giving warlord the benefit of the doubt since he still has not checked in to explain his vote or say hello since the prod for that matter)

Comrade explained his vote with the following quote (jumpstarting the conversation) but did not unvote or provide further jusitification for his vote on betiko and hasn't posted since Thursday if I'm not mistaken..

I'm not uncomfortable with a discussion about Omar. From what I remember of the show, Omar works with BPD in the first series, so a vig would make much more sense than an sk. It's easy to dismiss my argument as WIFOM but, at that stage of the game, there really was nothing to go on and at least I got a bit of conversation going.

In my experience, character speculation is ok early on but it can quickly get out of hand and serve as a mafia distraction tactic. I'm generally wary of people who focus on the characters because they are leading the conversation away from actual scum hunting.

At that point in the game, I had not voted since unvoting my joke vote and was not planning on voting for warlord or anyone for that matter unless suitable evidence was presented to warrant my vote

And next, we have my vote on kgb.

In an effort to nullify lynx's vote and offer something meaningful, here goes...

<tons of useful flavour information but no scum-hunting>

So, when I throw votes out as I did, I look for reactions from the voted player, specifically defensive reactions. Rather than reacting with suspicion at being voted out of the blue (I don't recall him as doing anything particularly scummy up to the point where I voted him), kgb reflexively offered up this flavour information which in itself is a null-tell but in this context appears to be self-preservation.

Then later,

I'll vote lynx_ because he still has yet to provide an explanation of his vote on me despite my post giving some initial flavor to the game, that's scum

kgb seems really worried about having a vote on him judging by this post, and appears to be using a classic chainsaw defense to protect himself from a perceived threat. My vote stays where it is.

One more thing I noticed:

Vote Jonty, his responses to recent actions have given me the vibe that he is trying to jump on everything that comes up. If I extrapolate this, possibly unreasonably, it points towards him hoping that any of that sticks and a "lynch anybody but me" mentality. This vote is weak but should suffice at this time of Day.

I like players who jump on everything that comes up. I personally think jonty is one of the towniest players in this game.
Lampshading a weak vote and justifying it with 'but it's D1' is scummy, FoS spiesr.

I'm afraid that's all I have time for (got to get ready for an interview) but I will repeat that I'm not happy with a warlord lynch. While lurker lynches look good on paper, they too often turn out to be town. A good lynch D1 can make a game much easier later on.

my response to your claim that I'm worried about your vote is funny for 2 reasons:

1 - you're the only one who voted for me and nobody else seemed inclined to cast another vote against me
2 - you only quoted my vote and not my opening sentence below prefacing my vote since the game had gotten a bit stale towards the end of last week and throughout the weekend and we all got prods

fine i'll spice things up a bit and circle back to lynx since he hasn't said anything to justify his vote despite multiple requests for justification..

my vote aginst lynx was cast in an effort to jumpstart our game (seems to a common theme haha) and revisit the vote against me since lynx had not answered since the vote, i found it curious that much of the attention was focused on warlord bc jonty had spoken up, I thought the rest of the town asking for a reason for the vote against me would be enough to have you post a response but the focus was elsewhere and as you mentioned previously, you were looking for the (eventual) reaction from me

i think it's difficult to correctly lynch someone D1 when all we really have to go on are what people say and no concrete actions so my plan going into this game was not to vote seriously for anyone D1 since odds dictate there are more town than scum and thus most likely facing an innocent lynch

I still may follow through with that plan...but for now I'm leaving my vote on lynx

two final things lynx:

1 - good luck on your interview!

2 - thank you to skillfusniper for pointing out that lynx posted in the vaca thread but I believe the mod asked that we also post in the this thread - if i had known you were going to be out of touch during the weekend, I probably would have kept my big mouth shut and not responded at all haha

[skillfusniper33]

Regarding warlord, the idea is not to lynch him but to put pressure on him, then decide.. Of course if he disapears it s a bit complicated to put pressure on him. But i d rather not forget this when his replacement shows up.

I don't think putting pressure on the replacement is necessarily a bad thing, but he won't be able to offer anything in regards to warlords thoughts. The pressure would be more to see if we can get him to make a mistake, and I don't have an issue with that. I don't like the idea of having what warlord said screw over the replacement if he comes in.

If it comes down to the wire I am with safari and think we need to get rid of deadweight early, otherwise this game will just die, and getting hammer votes later on might become difficult if we have multiple people inactive.

So in summary lynx, what you're saying is. Your vote on KGB was a 'reaction test', because KGB had done nothing to warrant a vote, and you say I'll explain later. Some time passes, and KGB then votes you for not providing your reason and you say that's scummy. I disagree with your comment that KGB was 'really worried' about your vote, but then again only KGB would know.

I disagree with your random vote in principle but I can see how you've tried to form a case using it. I disagree with your case on KGB but as of now cannot decide whether its just through a disagreeal of opinions, or that your scum looking for town to form a bandwagon.

I really think what lynx was trying to do was actually to see if anyone would step up and help defend KGB rather the defense he had, or how much of an overreaction KGB took. Or at least that is what I understood from his post. I would also like to hear a little more about lynx's reasons as well since it seems to be an interesting tactic

[StubbsKVM]

Regarding warlord, the idea is not to lynch him but to put pressure on him, then decide.. Of course if he disapears it s a bit complicated to put pressure on him. But i d rather not forget this when his replacement shows up.

I don't think putting pressure on the replacement is necessarily a bad thing, but he won't be able to offer anything in regards to warlords thoughts. The pressure would be more to see if we can get him to make a mistake, and I don't have an issue with that. I don't like the idea of having what warlord said screw over the replacement if he comes in.

If it comes down to the wire I am with safari and think we need to get rid of deadweight early, otherwise this game will just die, and getting hammer votes later on might become difficult if we have multiple people inactive.

So in summary lynx, what you're saying is. Your vote on KGB was a 'reaction test', because KGB had done nothing to warrant a vote, and you say I'll explain later. Some time passes, and KGB then votes you for not providing your reason and you say that's scummy. I disagree with your comment that KGB was 'really worried' about your vote, but then again only KGB would know.

I disagree with your random vote in principle but I can see how you've tried to form a case using it. I disagree with your case on KGB but as of now cannot decide whether its just through a disagreeal of opinions, or that your scum looking for town to form a bandwagon.

I really think what lynx was trying to do was actually to see if anyone would step up and help defend KGB rather the defense he had, or how much of an overreaction KGB took. Or at least that is what I understood from his post. I would also like to hear a little more about lynx's reasons as well since it seems to be an interesting tactic

I agree on losing the deadweight too. I don't agree on your thoughts about warlord's replacement though. All warlord did was vote without giving any reason and then disappear.
I suppose the putting pressure counts for everyone in this game, not just this replacement. If we're ever going to find scum, we shouldn't focus on just one guy.

Lynx's tactic is interesting, but unfortunately it wasn't very succesful. I'm looking forward to more input from him.

How long did we have exactly after the prod? I don't think I've seen half of the players involved since then.

[StubbsKVM]

EBWOP:
missing comrade kirk and superkeener. Warlord being replaced.

So definitely more than half.

[thechuck51]

new guy1 replaces warlord5

[new guy1]

Confirm, unvote in case his joke vote carried over, and hello all. I have read up on the forum while waiting for the role PM, and I will hold my vote for now because I never collect enough information on day 1 to make cases, must-less when I read it all in one day. Currently, I believe that if we do not find a case to go on soon, and we have 5 days and 5 hours till the deadline (if I am correct) that we should lynch an inactive. Of course this poses the risk that we will lynch a relatively to highly important town role, but I dont think we will be able to find more replacements for the game and I dont want issues with lynching players later on. Thats all I have to add currently.

[Iron Butterfly]

Stubbs said:

I agree on losing the deadweight too. I don't agree on your thoughts about warlord's replacement though. All warlord did was vote without giving any reason and then disappear.
I suppose the putting pressure counts for everyone in this game, not just this replacement. If we're ever going to find scum, we shouldn't focus on just one guy.

Lynx's tactic is interesting, but unfortunately it wasn't very successful. I'm looking forward to more input from him.

How long did we have exactly after the prod? I don't think I've seen half of the players involved since then.

the problem we have had, and warlord is a prime example is that to find scum we need a continuous dialogue. While I agree that voting without an explanation was grounds to put pressure, it by no means assures guilt. With him completely disappearing the whole nature of pressure is now moot because we have never had a dialogue for him to hang himself further or offer a simple explanation.

day one is usually like a dog chasing his tail and this one is no different.

[betiko]

I ve seen superkeener today in the post where we all complained about BOB and other add ons not working with their last site update. He basically posted once here.. Grrrr

Oh and welcome ng1, cool to play another game with you. Is your brother around in case we need a new replacement?