Krazy Kingdoms [Quenched]

[koontz1973]

Give me today to look at the map. You have made some changes and am trying to catch up. But the druids and elementalists you can leave as they are. No need to make the map bonus heavy. The way you have it now gives it a nice overall balance.

[dolomite13]

Just noticed that I completely forgot to mention elimination for not controlling any basic land territories in the map instruction/legend/key area.

=D=

[dolomite13]

Wizards
I think this would be more balanced
* [maelstrom] <==adjacent==>[your favored territories]
* [maelstrom] + [your favored territories] = +1 bonus each
* [maelstrom] Reset 3

Fishermen
I want seas to be more of a terrain blocker. This would make it so that seas provide a bonus and you can get troops in and out but not use them to skip across the sea as blocking terrain.
* [territories that border seas are adjacent for you]
* Seas +2 bonus each.

=D=

[dolomite13]

I had a crazy idea....

what if...

Every territory had two troop locations. The second one would be in an alternate dimension only accessible via the forbidden lands. These lands would provide a bonus of 1 for every 3 but would not count towards special feature bonuses, kingdom bonuses, etc and would not protect you from elimination as any troops on these territories could never return to the main map dimension.

This would be a massive change to hoe the map is laid out and plays which is why I am just floating the idea as a crazy idea and will probably save it for another map in the future with dimensional travel etc...

show

=D=

[koontz1973]

Wizards
I think this would be more balanced
* [maelstrom] <==adjacent==>[your favored territories]
* [maelstrom] + [your favored territories] = +1 bonus each
* [maelstrom] Reset 3

If I understand this, maelstrom is adjacent to favoured territs, and if you control both you get a +1 bonus. This is fine, but you say the maelstrom resets 3. Do you mean it resets to 3 neutrals?

Fishermen
I want seas to be more of a terrain blocker. This would make it so that seas provide a bonus and you can get troops in and out but not use them to skip across the sea as blocking terrain.
* [territories that border seas are adjacent for you]
* Seas +2 bonus each.

An idea for the seas could be this. Seas can only reinforce their auto deploy and cannot attack out. If you use conditional borders, you can have the borders for the sea only bordering the adjoining regions that a player owns. So if you control Sea 3 and F4, you can reinforce out, but if you own sea 3 and not V2, you cannot attack it from the sea. Then a +2 is OK.

I had a crazy idea....

Leave it in the ideas box.

[dolomite13]

Wizards
I think this would be more balanced
* [maelstrom] <==adjacent==>[your favored territories]
* [maelstrom] + [your favored territories] = +1 bonus each
* [maelstrom] Reset 3

If I understand this, maelstrom is adjacent to favoured territs, and if you control both you get a +1 bonus. This is fine, but you say the maelstrom resets 3. Do you mean it resets to 3 neutrals?

Ooo yea I see what you mean ... it should be
* [maelstrom] <==adjacent==>[your favored territories]
* [your favored territories] = +1 bonus each
* [maelstrom] Reset to 3 neutral when held[/quote]

Fishermen
I want seas to be more of a terrain blocker. This would make it so that seas provide a bonus and you can get troops in and out but not use them to skip across the sea as blocking terrain.
* [territories that border seas are adjacent for you]
* Seas +2 bonus each.

An idea for the seas could be this. Seas can only reinforce their auto deploy and cannot attack out. If you use conditional borders, you can have the borders for the sea only bordering the adjoining regions that a player owns. So if you control Sea 3 and F4, you can reinforce out, but if you own sea 3 and not V2, you cannot attack it from the sea. Then a +2 is OK.

Ah i see something like this

* [territories you control that border seas are adjacent to seas]
* Seas autodeploy 2

This way you can attack into seas and reinforce out of seas and you get 2 autodeploy on a sea. Not the same as an "anywhere" type of bonus but since noone else can eliminate those forces except through the forbidden lands that seems fair.

What ya think?

=D=

I had a crazy idea....

Leave it in the ideas box.

Agreed... I have a "dimensional" map idea in mind already involving heaven and hell and lots of imagery from the heavy metal album covers

[koontz1973]

Ooo yea I see what you mean ... it should be
* [maelstrom] <==adjacent==>[your favored territories]
* [your favored territories] = +1 bonus each
* [maelstrom] Reset to 3 neutral when held

OK

Ah i see something like this

* [territories you control that border seas are adjacent to seas]
* Seas autodeploy 2

This way you can attack into seas and reinforce out of seas and you get 2 autodeploy on a sea. Not the same as an "anywhere" type of bonus but since noone else can eliminate those forces except through the forbidden lands that seems fair.

What ya think?

OK

Get these changes done, then will have another look.

[dolomite13]

Ooo yea I see what you mean ... it should be
* [maelstrom] <==adjacent==>[your favored territories]
* [your favored territories] = +1 bonus each
* [maelstrom] Reset to 3 neutral when held

OK

Ah i see something like this

* [territories you control that border seas are adjacent to seas]
* Seas autodeploy 2

This way you can attack into seas and reinforce out of seas and you get 2 autodeploy on a sea. Not the same as an "anywhere" type of bonus but since noone else can eliminate those forces except through the forbidden lands that seems fair.

What ya think?

OK

Get these changes done, then will have another look.

Done

Here is an updated map with those changes.

And the note about needing to control a basic land or you will be eliminated.

=D=

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/3664/kk016lg.png
[bigimg]http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/3664/kk016lg.png[/bigimg]

[koontz1973]

You still need to add the text for the seas only bordering regions owned by the same player and the auto deploy.

[dolomite13]

You still need to add the text for the seas only bordering regions owned by the same player and the auto deploy.

It's there ... the "key" describes the "sea" icon and the "controlled territory bordering a sea"... I might need to reword that just a bit.

Then the icons under fisherman using those descriptions should say that.

[controlled bordering] <== assaults ==> [sea]
[sea] Auto 2



I am wondering if I have looked at the map too much lately ... I would love a set of fresh eyes to explain the map back to me to see if it is clear enough... maybe i could put together a quiz and send it to some friends that play CC.... hmmmm....


=D=

[koontz1973]

dolomite, the wording will need clarification. But before you send it of, list for me all game play changes you have made since bringing this out of holiday.

For the seas though, you could say "Seas only border the regions owned by the same player"

[dolomite13]

dolomite, the wording will need clarification. But before you send it of, list for me all game play changes you have made since bringing this out of holiday. For the seas though, you could say "Seas only border the regions owned by the same player"

Fishermen

Was clarified from "controlled territories are adjacent to seas" which was not correct to "your controlled territories that border seas are adjacent to seas"

Cultists

The bomb was decreased from resets to 10 to resets to 7 when held.

Barbarians

Changed from needing to control your favored territory to be adjacent to allowing your favored territories to be adjacent to the horde.
Dropped the connection between the horde and territories adjacent to your controlled favored territories. This was just too confusing.
Decreased the autodeploy on the horde to 2 from 3. I think start on the horde is up for negotiation still.

Wizards

Dropped your favored territories being adjacent when you hold the maelstrom.
Changed bonus to +1 for each favored territory you hold from +1 when you hold the maelstrom to +1 for controlled favored territory.
Changed the maelstrom from autodeploy 2 to resets 3.

I also want the number of start territories on the map to be limited to a single kingdom per player so I changed that. If that's not possible or you think that might throw off balance we can go back to the standard start drop on the kingdoms and their favored territories.

That looks like all the changes I made. I believe the changes make it more balanced based on a simulation I did with printing out the board and using actual risk pieces to simulate a few games. But then again I could be way off and need your eyes on this

=D=



The seas wording should probably be.

Symbols on the left in the key...
[Sea] - Seas border but are not adjacent to other territories.
[/] - Your controlled territories that border a sea

Symbols on the right
[/] <==> [Sea]


The Key

Do you think I should rework the "Kingdoms" part of the key to be narrower and add a fourth column on the left showing symbols for basic lands like [T] [V] etc... and possibly "all land" and "all sea" from the Cultists?

[koontz1973]

dolomite, all looks OK for now. But the forth column, leave it for now. This is going to be a map not for newbies.

[dolomite13]

dolomite, all looks OK for now. But the forth column, leave it for now. This is going to be a map not for newbies.

=) true dat

=D=

[dolomite13]

I'm not convinced I have Wizards right yet. The +1 bonus they get will be right from the start of the game. No other special gets that. Is it balanced with the maelstrom being a reset to 3 when held?

Maybe it could have something different like ...

- Maelstrom starts with 10 neutral
- [maelstrom] + [controlled favored] = +2
- [maelstrom] == Bombards ==> [favored] (controlled or otherwise)
- [maelstrom] = [your favored] <== adjacent ==> [your favored] (controlled or otherwise)

This would give the wizard +2 only after they spend some time to unlock the maelstrom and then would allow them to jump across the board using the power of the maelstrom. And let the maelstrom be a place they cache forces to clean off their favored territories via bombardment.

Thoughts?

=D=

[koontz1973]

According to the map maelstrom resets to 3 neutrals. So no bonus can come from this at any time, (- [maelstrom] + [controlled favored] = +2)so this cannot be done.

But I am fine leaving it as it is now. No need to completely balance the game.

[dolomite13]

I would make Maelstrom not reset ... but maybe decay of 1 .... I just want Wizards to be cooler than they currently are...

=D=

[koontz1973]

Fine, balance the neutral to the decay. The higher the neutral they have to fight, the lower the decay. No one really wants to hit 10 neutrals and then decay by 10.

[dolomite13]

Yep =) AGreed

[dolomite13]

Here are the new maps... I also have one with starting forces in there .. the small ones lost some quality when uploaded to imageshack and I need to look into that.

=D=

Large

With Starting Forces - http://imageshack.us/a/img577/9949/kk017lgstart.png
With 88's -http://imageshack.us/a/img32/497/kk017lg88.png
With 888's - http://imageshack.us/a/img90/8977/kk017lg888.png
Base Map - http://imageshack.us/a/img42/2842/kk017lg.png

[bigimg]http://imageshack.us/a/img42/2842/kk017lg.png[/bigimg]

Small

With 88's - http://imageshack.us/a/img692/6677/kk017sm88.png
With 888's - http://imageshack.us/a/img341/396/kk017sm888.png
Base Map - http://imageshack.us/a/img41/4291/kk017sm.png

[dolomite13]

The XML for this thing is going to be a monster... I really hope that conditional borders will let me do everything I want with this map... If there is an XML expert that wants to give this a go or give me some guidance I would be happy to work with you.

=D=

[Swimmerdude99]

can't believe I am just now seeing this... but this looks SO cool!!!

[dolomite13]

can't believe I am just now seeing this... but this looks SO cool!!!

=) thanx

[koontz1973]

Small map, text is very hard to read in the bottom legend. Try a glow.

[dolomite13]

Small map, text is very hard to read in the bottom legend. Try a glow.

Agreed

=D=