Vertex/Austrum [Quenched]

koontz1973 · Post by **koontz1973** » Fri Nov 09, 2012 12:03 pm

I understand now about Baird. Will see to a solution tonight.

Victory conditions are rarely used unless you really need to. Now that I see your point clearly, I can see that a reduction is in order. How about 5 or 7?

DoomYoshi · Post by **DoomYoshi** » Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:09 pm

koontz1973 wrote:I understand now about Baird. Will see to a solution tonight.

Victory conditions are rarely used unless you really need to. Now that I see your point clearly, I can see that a reduction is in order. How about 5 or 7?

5 makes no sense at all. 8-player games start with 5. That would mean the objective is to just to hold the central tert, so 5 becomes a meaningless number (unless we ever get 12 player games).
9 seems like a good number (since you start with 8 in 5, but 10 in 4).

Due to the unusual bonus structure though, there are some problems. Particularly with 7 players, since there are 6 starting territories. A 5 on 3 attack succeeds 64%. So there is a 64% chance that the first player can cripple an adjacent player (a drop of 1 being thus considered negligible).

koontz1973 · Post by **koontz1973** » Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:32 pm

I know Doom, I am trying to get it worked out for the next draft but have hit a little problem which is why it is taken me so long to post one. Will get the next one up at the weekend a the latest and by then all gp issues should be solved.

koontz1973 · Post by **koontz1973** » Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:46 am

Vertex
Reduced the number of territs to hold to 10. So now you need to hold Arctous and any ten territs to win the game. Neutral vlaues and troops deployment stay the same.
[bigimg]http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/5528/vertex.png[/bigimg]

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Austrum
This has had a lot of game play work. I have added an extra 2 ships to the map. All ships are a starting position with one territ in the centre. All starting positions will have an underlying neutral which is next to the coloured number. All other territs in the centre are a neutral one apart from Meridiem which is a 15. Winning condition stays the same. 5 ships and Meridium.
Starting positions will be handed out with a max of two. So up to 5 player games, 2 will be handed out, and above only one. Their is no losing condition so if players deploy next to each other, that is not a problem.

[bigimg]http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/6351/austrum.png[/bigimg]

DoomYoshi · Post by **DoomYoshi** » Thu Nov 15, 2012 6:50 pm

I love the new ships.

Are the starting positions mapped out so that if you start with Alston, you also start with AS1 (the red start)?

Seamus76 · Post by **Seamus76** » Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:05 pm

Why do the ships in the legend have red flags, but the ships on the map do not? The ships in the legend seem to have more detail as well.

koontz1973 · Post by **koontz1973** » Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:53 pm

DoomYoshi wrote:I love the new ships.

Are the starting positions mapped out so that if you start with Alston, you also start with AS1 (the red start)?

Yes they are.

Seamus76 wrote:Why do the ships in the legend have red flags, but the ships on the map do not? The ships in the legend seem to have more detail as well.

Ship in legend and on the map are the same in every detail. The ones in the the legend though have been brought out (duplicated that layer) to aid gameplay. Without them, a couple of people where wondering what an Exploratorum was as I had ships all around the board. And before you ask, no I will not be bringing the ones on the map out like that.

Cheers guys.

Seamus76 · Post by **Seamus76** » Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:49 am

koontz1973 wrote:
Seamus76 wrote:Why do the ships in the legend have red flags, but the ships on the map do not? The ships in the legend seem to have more detail as well.

Ship in legend and on the map are the same in every detail. The ones in the the legend though have been brought out (duplicated that layer) to aid gameplay. Without them, a couple of people where wondering what an Exploratorum was as I had ships all around the board. And before you ask, no I will not be bringing the ones on the map out like that.

Ok, you can't say they are "the same in every detail", and then say the ones in the legend are different. They are not the same, and the ones on the legend look better so why not make the ones on the map look better? Obviously you don't have to bring the ones on the map out more, but somewhere along the way I'm sure someone else will point it out or ask them to be changed.

Just a little nit-pick, while I'm sure you would rather some constructive info. Sorry :lol:

koontz1973 · Post by **koontz1973** » Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:59 am

Seamus76 wrote:
koontz1973 wrote:
Seamus76 wrote:Why do the ships in the legend have red flags, but the ships on the map do not? The ships in the legend seem to have more detail as well.

Ship in legend and on the map are the same in every detail. The ones in the the legend though have been brought out (duplicated that layer) to aid gameplay. Without them, a couple of people where wondering what an Exploratorum was as I had ships all around the board. And before you ask, no I will not be bringing the ones on the map out like that.

Ok, you can't say they are "the same in every detail", and then say the ones in the legend are different. They are not the same, and the ones on the legend look better so why not make the ones on the map look better? Obviously you don't have to bring the ones on the map out more, but somewhere along the way I'm sure someone else will point it out or ask them to be changed.

Just a little nit-pick, while I'm sure you would rather some constructive info. Sorry

Seamus, they are the same in every way. Completely identical. Not a pixel has been changed. The only difference is the ones in the legend are on two layers (duplicated). This just gives them a slight edge. And no, the map ones will not go that way. Why, because the legend is dark and the sea is light. So for game play and contrasting issues, they did needed to be brought out more than the ones on the map itself..

I am sure somewhere along the line, others may ask for them to be changed, but that does not mean they will be changed.

Are they not identifiable? Is their some confusion over the ships? I think not. O:)

DoomYoshi · Post by **DoomYoshi** » Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:08 am

Fawkner is the strongest starting position. He can connect his 2 starts by taking a 1 neutral. Also, that 1 neutral borders the objective. Singleton could take it also. Since his island start is in the middle of nowhere behind a bunch of other starters, his ideal first turn would be to start gobbling the SW continent.

Dawson and Mair Doubles team: unstoppable. They can kill yellow turn 1. There may be other little things like this, I will keep looking.

DoomYoshi · Post by **DoomYoshi** » Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:10 am

DoomYoshi wrote:Fawkner is the strongest starting position. He can connect his 2 starts by taking a 1 neutral. Also, that 1 neutral borders the objective. Singleton could take it also. Since his island start is in the middle of nowhere behind a bunch of other starters, his ideal first turn would be to start gobbling the SW continent.

Dawson and Mair Doubles team: unstoppable. They can kill yellow turn 1. There may be other little things like this, I will keep looking.

Ok, maybe not unstoppable. But they are too strong, mainly because their island territories connect.

A team of Dayston and Alliston is not quite as good, for example, even though they could potentially kill green turn 1.

koontz1973 · Post by **koontz1973** » Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:46 am

DoomYoshi wrote:Fawkner is the strongest starting position. He can connect his 2 starts by taking a 1 neutral. Also, that 1 neutral borders the objective. Singleton could take it also. Since his island start is in the middle of nowhere behind a bunch of other starters, his ideal first turn would be to start gobbling the SW continent.

Dawson and Mair Doubles team: unstoppable. They can kill yellow turn 1. There may be other little things like this, I will keep looking.

Doom, remember, these positions are not the only things to start with. The outer islands all so start but with random deployment. So no, no one can be eliminated first turn but like a lot of larger team games, maybe it can be done. As for the different starts, they are deliberate so every game you have to come up with a different strategy. As you rightly said, for some, it is better to head into the middle but with the decays it makes it harder to hold. For others, the outside is better.

DoomYoshi · Post by **DoomYoshi** » Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:50 am

koontz1973 wrote:
DoomYoshi wrote:Fawkner is the strongest starting position. He can connect his 2 starts by taking a 1 neutral. Also, that 1 neutral borders the objective. Singleton could take it also. Since his island start is in the middle of nowhere behind a bunch of other starters, his ideal first turn would be to start gobbling the SW continent.

Dawson and Mair Doubles team: unstoppable. They can kill yellow turn 1. There may be other little things like this, I will keep looking.

Doom, remember, these positions are not the only things to start with. The outer islands all so start but with random deployment. So no, no one can be eliminated first turn but like a lot of larger team games, maybe it can be done. As for the different starts, they are deliberate so every game you have to come up with a different strategy. As you rightly said, for some, it is better to head into the middle but with the decays it makes it harder to hold. For others, the outside is better.

Oh. I thought the outer islands started neutral. My bad.

koontz1973 · Post by **koontz1973** » Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:56 am

DoomYoshi wrote:
koontz1973 wrote:
DoomYoshi wrote:Fawkner is the strongest starting position. He can connect his 2 starts by taking a 1 neutral. Also, that 1 neutral borders the objective. Singleton could take it also. Since his island start is in the middle of nowhere behind a bunch of other starters, his ideal first turn would be to start gobbling the SW continent.

Dawson and Mair Doubles team: unstoppable. They can kill yellow turn 1. There may be other little things like this, I will keep looking.

Doom, remember, these positions are not the only things to start with. The outer islands all so start but with random deployment. So no, no one can be eliminated first turn but like a lot of larger team games, maybe it can be done. As for the different starts, they are deliberate so every game you have to come up with a different strategy. As you rightly said, for some, it is better to head into the middle but with the decays it makes it harder to hold. For others, the outside is better.

Oh. I thought the outer islands started neutral. My bad.

Not a problem Doom. Now that I explained that, do you think anything else needs to be done for either map?

koontz1973 · Post by **koontz1973** » Sat Nov 17, 2012 2:24 am

Vertex
Large islands top left have been split into two different bonuses. Less chance of a bonus drop. The only one that might get a drop in 1v1 games is bottom right (9 territs). I know this is frowned upon but I would like to leave it as is instead of splitting that up as well.
New glows around the land for colour blind people.
Added territ line that was missed till now between Cauda and Anticosti.
Fixed rivers and land bleeds.
[bigimg]http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/5528/vertex.png[/bigimg]
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Austrum
New glows for colour blind people.
Like Vertex, the islands that run around the left side of the board have now been split into two bonuses.
Fixed river and land bleeds.
[bigimg]http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/6351/austrum.png[/bigimg]
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Both maps need to have the glow bleeds fixed.

Can I ask for a game play check please?

koontz1973 · Post by **koontz1973** » Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:40 am

Glow clean up done to both maps. Toned down the glows as well. Still work for the colour blind filters. Names slanted as well. Brought out for readability and glow made more prominent as well for them.
Vertex
[bigimg]http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/4797/vertexg.png[/bigimg]
Austrum
[bigimg]http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/6351/austrum.png[/bigimg]

AndyDufresne · Post by **AndyDufresne** » Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:00 pm

Looking really terrific. Like the new glow and colors and the slanted names.

Is there a reason why Arctous looks all special font wise, and Meridiem doesn't? I may have missed something.

--Andy

koontz1973 · Post by **koontz1973** » Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:20 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:Looking really terrific. Like the new glow and colors and the slanted names.

Is there a reason why Arctous looks all special font wise, and Meridiem doesn't? I may have missed something.

--Andy

Absolutely no reason for them to be different. Will get Meridiem and Arctout changed to be the same but different from the others.

EDIT: Both maps winning condition name has now been made the same. To give it a slight prominence over normal territs, the text is slightly larger and not on a slant.
Vertex
[bigimg]http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/3585/vertexv.png[/bigimg]
Austrum
[bigimg]http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/6351/austrum.png[/bigimg]

AndyDufresne · Post by **AndyDufresne** » Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:24 am

I kind of liked the special color / text for the central region of both maps...! That is what I meant.

--Andy

koontz1973 · Post by **koontz1973** » Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:38 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:I kind of liked the special color / text for the central region of both maps...! That is what I meant.

--Andy

Your wish is my command, but I am not sure about this one just yet. On another note, I sincerely hope you do not stop coming into the foundry after your retirement. Your observations will be missed.

Both now have the older territ text for the winning condition.
Vertex
[bigimg]http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/8607/vertexp.png[/bigimg]
Austrum
[bigimg]http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6351/austrum.png[/bigimg]

AndyDufresne · Post by **AndyDufresne** » Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:14 pm

The current font and color may not be best, but I like the idea of giving those central regions a little something extra, outside of simply slightly enlarging their text or something.

These two maps are probably my two favorites of yours.

--Andy

koontz1973 · Post by **koontz1973** » Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:16 am

The two central territs only for both maps now have a different font than from before but it is within the same family of fonts as all of the other texts but larger and stronger. Glow is also the same as other territs but more rigid and stronger.
Vertex
[bigimg]http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/8916/vertexa.png[/bigimg]
Austrum
[bigimg]http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/6351/austrum.png[/bigimg]

AndyDufresne wrote:These two maps are probably my two favorites of yours.

--Andy

generalhead · Post by **generalhead** » Sun Nov 25, 2012 1:14 pm

I like the different lettering for the middle. These ones look good.

nolefan5311 · Post by **nolefan5311** » Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:08 pm

I will post some things in the next few days koontz. Have been busy with holiday things the past couple days.

koontz1973 · Post by **koontz1973** » Sat Dec 01, 2012 2:13 am

nolefan5311 wrote:I will post some things in the next few days koontz. Have been busy with holiday things the past couple days.

Hi ho!
Hi ho!
It's of to work we go!
With a bucket and spade!
And a hand grenade!
Hi ho!
Hi ho!

New images for both. Little done but added a bridge that got deleted into Vertex.
Vertex
[bigimg]http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/5528/vertex.png[/bigimg]
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Austrum
[bigimg]http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/6351/austrum.png[/bigimg]

Vertex/Austrum [Quenched]

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