[PC] Average Wait / Response Time

[deeptime]

Of "most people" that you're referring to, do they primarily play 24 hr games? This suggestion would only affect that type of listing in the game finder.

Additionally, when I searched for "duration" and "length" in this forum prior to submitting this issue, there were a number of requests for 6 hr and 12 hr games. That speaks to an unserved need for faster long form games.

I'm skeptical about your generalization.

[chapcrap]

It's not a generalization. It's a fact. Here is the other suggestion: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=156346

[ben.cleuch]

I also felt a bit like this. Then I bought premium and can have as many games running as I want. There are players in many different time zones playing in the same games, so it may well be that there is a delay caused by this. To effectively mark a player as being slow is unfair.

If you are stuck with only four games running it does seem to drag. Introducing a critical marker on a wall will not prevent the player joining games.

The games are meant to be casual and fun not a form of speed game.

[maxfaraday]

I don't think this relevant.
FYI, there are other countries than the US with different time zones.

[macbone]

Consider this as a perk to upgrading to Premium, I guess.

But yeah, I can see your point, deeptime. I play around 40-60 games at a whack, so I'm not worried about people taking their time to take a move, but when you're restricted to 4 games at a time, it can be annoying.

What about a stat that tracks a player's average turn length for 24-hour games?

[perchorin]

I don't think this relevant.
FYI, there are other countries than the US with different time zones.

exactly

[DoomYoshi]

What about a stat that tracks a player's average turn length for 24-hour games?

I think that is what is being proposed.

From a purely mathematical perspective, this stat won't help you at all.

Exhibit A: means are highly changed by outliers. If I take 90% of my turns in 0-4 hours and 10% in 20-24 hours my average will still be around 4-5 hours. This is then useless information because in the above example, none of my turns are in the 4-5 hour range. Using a median may help, but it doesn't represent the 10% of long turns. My point is that it there are a billion different ways that the data can be misrepresented by a point estimate, and it won't help you find opponents.

Exhibit B: check out dice stats. Anyone with 1000+ games has no variability in dice results. I predict a similar result with turn length.

Exhibit C: types of games are different. Team games usually take nearly 24 hours per turn (at least in clan wars, the highest level of team play). This is because there is a lot of discussion and such, not because a player is slow. A player who is very serious about the game may spend an average of 22 hours per turn, but be on all day long. In other words: deciding to play someone in a small casual game based on clan games results doesn't make sense.

............."................
Easiest way: do some research and try to find players in similar time zones who come on at similar times. This method won't work, for the reasons I presented and for the others listed by other players.

With all the time you spend waiting for your turn, you could join a mafia game to help fill your time.

[ben.cleuch]

I don't think this relevant.
FYI, there are other countries than the US with different time zones.

If that was in reply to my post then I think you misread it or I did not make it clear. I said "There are players in many different time zones playing in the same games, so it may well be that there is a delay caused by this. To effectively mark a player as being slow is unfair."

The point I was tring to make was that we do not all live in the same time zone and delay is often unavoidable.

[agentcom]

In the topic chapcrap posted, I stated my support for this idea. That support has turned to indifference. This suggestion only really benefits freemium players (and there might be some premiums who like quick casual games for some reason). If I was a freemium, I would love this, but it would dissuade me from upgrading. I'd rather give freemiums a couple more games or do promotions where they can sign up for 10 games at a a time once per year than implement this suggestion.

[PapaGeek]

Concise description:

• Add a profile statistic for Average Response Time

Specifics/Details:

• Add a moving average of the amount of time it takes a player to make a move once it is their turn to move.
• This is done over their last 100 turns.
• Freestyle moves are not included
  

How this will benefit the site and/or other comments:

• This would be helpful in choosing partners and who to invite to a game
• It would also be advantageous to have a restriction on games only for those with an average response time of 12 hour or less, etc.
• This does not change your actual time limit of 24 hours to make a move, just tells others how long you usually take.

[TheForgivenOne]

And does this include Speed Games?

[PapaGeek]

No, speed games would not be included. Just interested in the 24 hour games.

I've played a number of games with 8 players where I get to make a move no more than twice a week, sometimes just once a week.

[BGtheBrain]

*****

[squishyg]

I see why some people would value this information, but I don't like it because it creates the false impression that take your turn quickly is preferable to taking your turn strategically. Making 2 well thought out turns during the course of a week trumps 2 hastily planned turns a day.

[Dorieus]

One problem with this suggestion is that players in US time zones will have an advantage, whereas players in other zones will wrongly appear to be slower.

[BGtheBrain]

*****

[blakebowling]

One problem with this suggestion is that players in US time zones will have an advantage, whereas players in other zones will wrongly appear to be slower.

huh?

Please elaborate...
1 hour in the US is the same as 1 hour in Europe... unless Im missing something

What I think he is saying is, players in significantly offset timezones from the US (such as europe and china) will appear to be playing slower than players who are sequenced in the same order in the U.S.

I don't think that explained it better, so I'll give an example.

Players 1 - 3 of a 4 player game are in the US in lets say the same time zone (however any of the four US time zones will work). Player 4 is in Europe (at least a 5 hour time difference from the U.S. players). If players 1 - 3 are all on at the same time, and take their turns in order, it will cause them to have lower "response times", while player 4 will appear to take much longer as the times during the day aren't the same in both locations (i.e. when it's morning in the U.S. It's afternoon in the UK, when it's afternoon in the U.S. it's night in the UK).

This won't bias all of the results, but I really don't like it as it's another statistic that can be easily manipulated.

[BGtheBrain]

*****

[squishyg]

I wouldnt join a game with a guy who has an avg turn time of 22 hours though lol

And that's exactly why this suggestion shouldn't go forward. It's discriminatory against people who take their time, people who need more time due to disabilities, people who live in less populated time zones, poor folks who rely on public computers, and Western Hemisphere players who work third shift!

Really, what would the black jesus say?

[Shadow Assassin]

I like this idea, but i think it should be for all games ever played. or even better, an option that lets you specify.\

as for the western hemisphere players playing faster, people can always take a look at your location indicated on your profile.

[zimmah]

I like this.
Instead of 100 I'd prefer 1000

QFT

maybe have 1000 in the profile page and make it clickable to go to a page with more detailed information. like last 100, last 2000, average for all turns since it has been registered. and whatever else you can think of.

[chapcrap]

I don't really care about this at all.

But, if you're gonna do it, I would use information from the last 30 days, instead of a set number of turns. Of course, this information will be a lot more for some than Others. I take 1000 turns in a couple of days... A freemium may take months to take that many turns.

[PapaGeek]

Thanks for all the feedback:

I agree that doing it over the past 30 days would be better than the past 100 turns.

I don’t think that it would affect players who take their time when making a move. The concept is not how long it takes to make the actual move, but how long it takes before you start that move. The time span could go from when the previous player ended their turn and when the next player started theirs, if they take 45 minutes, that should not count against them.

Most days I check the boards when I get up in the morning, then at lunch time at work, then when I get home, and again before I go to bed at night. Some of my moves delay the game 10 to 12 hours, but most are in the 4 hour range.

Some players make their moves just once a day and this stat would point them out.

I play at 7 AM, 12 noon, 6 PM and 10 PM. That is 5, 6, 4, and 9 hours between checking the boards. I’m not sure how shifting times like that by a few hours for someone living in another country would affect this rating. What would affect it would be a person who plays just once a day.

[MoB Deadly]

This would not be in the best interest of the business side of CC. I remember when I was freemium, and I would look for all the players that played fast so I could have quick turnaround time for games.

Having all of your game slots full, entices freemium players to purchase an account and have unlimited games.

[squishyg]

Thanks for all the feedback:

I agree that doing it over the past 30 days would be better than the past 100 turns.

I don’t think that it would affect players who take their time when making a move. The concept is not how long it takes to make the actual move, but how long it takes before you start that move. The time span could go from when the previous player ended their turn and when the next player started theirs, if they take 45 minutes, that should not count against them.

Most days I check the boards when I get up in the morning, then at lunch time at work, then when I get home, and again before I go to bed at night. Some of my moves delay the game 10 to 12 hours, but most are in the 4 hour range.

Some players make their moves just once a day and this stat would point them out.

I play at 7 AM, 12 noon, 6 PM and 10 PM. That is 5, 6, 4, and 9 hours between checking the boards. I’m not sure how shifting times like that by a few hours for someone living in another country would affect this rating. What would affect it would be a person who plays just once a day.

Part of what I like about CC is that I only have to take my turns once a day. They advertise this on the homepage. Why should we make a big deal or create a false preference for player's who log on every few hours?