Russia: "We are preparing for preemptive attack on Europe"

[Phatscotty]

Don't be silly all of you. A new war involving Russia and NATO cannot happen.


Everyone is a pussy. They know the implications. Unless we have a Russian Gabrilo Princip killing say Obama a war won't happen. The US only picks on little countries, wars they can win easily.

Putin seems to be walking the walk...

[Phatscotty]

France and UK have the bomb and trained, experienced armies.

The Russians would be in and out of Poland before the French could make it to the Rhine.

Also, this assumes the French armed forces don't decide to go on strike over pension reform once they're ordered to counter-attack.

"Pardon, Monseigneur Putin - could we please request a 2 month moratorium on the war while we finish contract negotiations?"

LMFAO Wait do the French even bother with the pretense of having a so called army nowadays? From what I understood I thought they just flew white flags from all of their former military bases these days in order to beat the rush.

I think they have a patriotism problem with this latest generation too.

[neanderpaul14]

France and UK have the bomb and trained, experienced armies.

The Russians would be in and out of Poland before the French could make it to the Rhine.

Also, this assumes the French armed forces don't decide to go on strike over pension reform once they're ordered to counter-attack.

"Pardon, Monseigneur Putin - could we please request a 2 month moratorium on the war while we finish contract negotiations?"

LMFAO Wait do the French even bother with the pretense of having a so called army nowadays? From what I understood I thought they just flew white flags from all of their former military bases these days in order to beat the rush.

I think they have a patriotism problem with this latest generation too.

Does that mean they can run faster nowadays anytime a German picks up a cap gun?

[CreepersWiener]

I will show you the start of World War 3:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaliningrad_Oblast

[Juan_Bottom]

• NATO is a weak arm of the US military. The US doesn't have the resources to commit much help to Eastern Europe anymore.
• The US (under Bush) pulled out of the ABMT and now Russia has the technology to nuke anywhere in the world.
• Remember when that plan crashed in Russia and basically the whole Polish government died? Russia sent back the bodies right away... but they held onto all of Poland's secret military codes and battle plans for a week before sending those back.
• During the height of the Cold War, the American Military stationed in German had a 6-hour life expectancy in the event of a Russian invasion.
• Russia has been modernizing it's military for years.

Q: How big is Poland's Military?
The Polish Armed Forces consist of 100,300[20] active duty and 20,000 active reserve personnel. If needed, a further 240,000 personnel can be mobilized. Troop strength in the four different branches was in 2010, as followed:

Polish Land Forces: 68,704[21] (three divisions; 11th Armoured Cavalry Division, 12th Mechanised Division, 16th Mechanised Division, with 1st "Warsaw" Mechanised Division having disbanding on September 1, 2011).

Polish Air Force: 29,126[21]

Polish Navy: 12,102[21] (The force comprised the 3rd Ship Flotilla (based at Gdynia), the 8th Coastal Defence Flotilla (based at Świnoujście) and the 1st Naval Aviation Brigade (based at Gdynia).)

Polish Special Forces: 1,700[22]

All four branches are supported by:

Military infrastructure: 43,768[21] (Representing 39,8% of the entire active duty personnel), it includes:
Ministry of National Defence of the Republic of Poland
Central Support
Military command
Supply and Military logistics
4,500 Military Gendarmes[23][24]

Military reserve forces: 20,000 (Part-time volunteers which serve within the Land Forces, Navy and Air Force)[25]

In addition, the Polish Armed Forces employ around 46,000 civilians which are split through all branches of the military.[26] In 2010 the Ministry of National Defence of the Republic of Poland announced its intention about reducing its number by around 10% until 2012[27]

As of 2011, the Armed Forces are in the middle of a long-term modernisation programme. Immediate plans involve new anti-aircraft missile systems, a Lead-In Fighter Trainer (LIFT) aircraft, medium transport helicopters, a submarine and self-propelled howitzers. However, predictions suggest that the budget might not cope with the need to replace ageing equipment,[citation needed] since several programs such as acqcuisition of new VIP transport aircraft, two air-to-air refueling tankers, 50 transport helicoters or seven multirole corvettes have been already postponed or completely cancelled.
Leopard 2 main battle tank
F-16C block 52+ fighter aircraft
Frigate ORP Generał Tadeusz Kościuszko
Land Forces

Main battle tanks: 906 (Leopard 2A4, PT-91, PT-91MA1, T-72, T-72A, T-72M1, T-72M1D)[28]
AFV: 1687 (KTO Rosomak, BWP-1, BWR-1S, BWR-1D, HMMWV, BRDM-2)[28]
Artillery: 1153 (120mm or greater)[28]
Army Helicopters: 131 (PZL W-3, Mi-8, Mi-17, Mi-24, Mi-2 )[28]

Air Force

Jet Fighter: 83 ( 35 MiG-29A, 48 F-16 C,D block 52+)[28]
Attack Aircraft: 45 (Su-22M4)[28]
Jet Trainer Aircraft: 54 (PZL TS-11 Iskra)[28]
Turboprop Trainer Aircraft: 37 (PZL-130 Orlik)[28]
Cargo aircraft: 41 (C-295, C-130, PZL M28)[28]
Helicopters: 53 (PZL W-3, PZL SW-4, Mi-8, Mi-2)[28]

Navy

Frigates: 2 (Oliver Hazard Perry Class)[28]
Corvettes: 3 (Kaszub class, Tarantul Class)[28]
Submarines: 5 (Kilo Class, Kobben Class)[28]
Fast Attack Craft: 3 (Orkan class)[28]
Mine Counter-Measure Vessels: 19 (Gardno class, Mamry class, 206FM class)[28]
Minelayer-Landing crafts: 5 (Lublin class)[28]
Over 40 other vessels (including survey ships, tankers, rescue and salvage and training ships)[28]
Aircraft: 12 (PZL M28B Bryza)[28]
Helicopter: 30 (Kaman SH-2, PZL W-3, Mil Mi-14, PZL Mi-2, Mil Mi-17)[28][29]

How Big is Romania's Military?
Romania joined NATO in 2004. As a consequence, extensive preparations were made to abolish conscription by 2007 and create a professional army in place of a conscripted one.

The new armed forces include 90,000 men and women, of whom about 75,000 are military personnel (the remaining 15,000 or so are civilians). 60,000 of the 90,000 are active forces; 30,000 comprise the territorial forces.[8] Out of the 75,000 troops which comprise the actual military, about 45,800 make up the Romanian Land Forces, 13,250 serve as the Romanian Air Force and 6,800 are in the Romanian Naval Forces; the remaining 8,800 serve in other fields.[9]
Modernization
Total defence spending currently accounts for 1.33% of total national GDP, which represents approximately 1.78 billion euros.

The structure of the state defence order under President Putin changed. Priority was given to the acquisition of sophisticated modern weapons, in light of the events in Chechnya. Previously, financing of strategic nuclear deterrence forces had been a priority, and up to 80% of assignments for the state defence order were spent on their needs. It was planned that beginning from 2000 the state defence order would comprise two priority directions: assignments for the nuclear deterrence forces, and assignments for purchase of conventional arms including the precision guided weapons.

The recent steps towards modernisation of the Armed Forces have been made possible by Russia's economic resurgence based on oil and gas revenues as well a strengthening of its own domestic market. Currently, the military is in the middle of a major equipment upgrade, with the government in the process of spending about $200 billion (what equals to about $400 billion in PPP dollars) on development and production of military equipment between 2006-2015 under the State Armament Programme for 2007-2015 (GPV - госпрограмма вооружения).[39] Mainly as a result of lessons learned during the August War, the State Armament Programme for 2011-2020 was launched in December 2010. Prime Minister Putin announced that 20-21.5 trillion roubles (over $650 billion) will be allocated to purchase new hardware in the next 10 years. The aim is to have a growth of 30% of modern equipment in the army, navy and air force by 2015, and of 70% by 2020. In some categories, the proportion of new weapon systems will reach 80% or even 100%.[40] At this point, the Russian MOD plans to purchase, among others, up to 150 ICBMs, 600 aircraft, 1,000 helicopters, 18 submarines, 15 frigates, 35 corvettes and 62 air defense battalions. Several existing types will be upgraded.[40][41]

As of 2011, Russia's chief military prosecutor said that 20% of the defence budget was being stolen or defrauded yearly.

Q: How big is Russia's Military?
The number of troops is permitted by decree of the President of Russia. On January 1, 2008, a quota of 2,019,629 units, including the military 1,134,800 units, was set.[5]

In 2010 the International Institute for Strategic Studies (IISS) estimated that the Russian armed forces numbered about 1,027,000 active troops and in the region of 20,000,000 reserves, (largely ex-conscripts)[1] but a significant military reform is underway which will cut the number of active troops. According to SIPRI, Russia's annual defense spending stands at about $52.7 billion in FY2011

Russia VS US

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081216164948AA1ibZz

Best Answer - Chosen by Asker
Active troops U.S. 1,380,000; Russia 1,245,000
Reserve troops U.S. 1,463,000; Russia 1,690,000
Defense budget U.S. $711 Billion; Russia $70 Billion
Fighter aircraft U.S. 2,604; Russia 2,099
Tanks U.S. 7,821; Russia 28,381
Aircraft Carriers U.S. 12; Russia 1
Submarines U.S. 74; Russia 18

Edit:
You can shoot down every MiG the Soviets employ, but if you return to base and the lead Soviet tank commander is eating breakfast in your snack bar, Jack, you've lost the war

— Anonymous A-10 Pilot, USAF

But remember. It's not the US VS Russia. It's Russia VS Eastern Europe (with expected aid from the US). And Eastern Europe gets it energy from Russia.

[saxitoxin]

As Chicago police derailed an attempt by Occupy Wall Street activists to bomb Barack Obama's Chicago headquarters and attack his former Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel, the President shocked the world by announcing his "Son of Star Wars" Missile System was now fully operational.

"The thing is, when the Americans say their missile defense plans are not directed against Russia, they're telling the truth. It's against everybody!" said Fyodor Lukyanov, editor of Global Affairs.

Obama has announced he will personally inspect his new lethal array of killing missiles at U.S. facilities in Poland and Romania later this summer.

[GabonX]

And, why would it be reasonable for the Russian government to allow the US to eventually prevent Russia from retaliating against any aggressor with its nuclear weapons?

Because it's a defensive action...

It's crazy that people are willing to accept the Russian position, that we cannot put up a missile defense system because Russia wants to maintain the ability to destroy Europe via nuclear holocaust, and that they will attack to maintain supremacy..

The fact that Russia has openly taken this position shows that the West needs to be firm and specific in preparations against Russia as well as rouge nations like Iran. Russia's leaders today are the same people who fought the cold war 2 and 3 decades ago and they continue to fight it today.

I hope people realize this sooner rather than later.

[Baron Von PWN]

And, why would it be reasonable for the Russian government to allow the US to eventually prevent Russia from retaliating against any aggressor with its nuclear weapons?

Because it's a defensive action...

It's crazy that people are willing to accept the Russian position, that we cannot put up a missile defense system because Russia wants to maintain the ability to destroy Europe via nuclear holocaust, and that they will attack to maintain supremacy..

The fact that Russia has openly taken this position shows that the West needs to be firm and specific in preparations against Russia as well as rouge nations like Iran. Russia's leaders today are the same people who fought the cold war 2 and 3 decades ago and they continue to fight it today.

I hope people realize this sooner rather than later.

How's about this Gabon, I propose a knife fight. You get a knife. I get a full suit of armor and a knife.

Oh also I'm much stronger than you, am trained in knife fighting and have knifed several people in the past, my knife is razor sharp and supper light, yours is a little dull and rusty, and you haven't been able to train as much as you'd like and I've got a bunch of buddies with knives too, you get one friend but he only has a pointy stick.

Sound good?


You do realize that building this missile shield it makes it easier to attack Russia right?

If the US can prevent a nuclear response from Russia what's stopping the US from hitting Russia?

The USA is already the premier fighting army on the planet and outspends all other militaries combined. The only thing Russia has which might dissuade US military action against it, is it's nuclear arsenal.

The US now hopes to nullify that. Can you not see the threat to Russia's security this represents?

You can't exactly go and claim the US isn't one to invade other countries either, seeing as in the past two decades you've been in active military operations in a number of countries, going so far as to occupy and overthrow two governments. One of them for no reason other than you felt like it well, you thought they might have weapons of mass destruction, so you invaded before they could get them.

Hey wait a minute... The reason you invaded was because they might be able to deter you from invading in the future. Hmmm, what are you proposing to do to Russia? oh get rid of it's deterrent? Yeah they don't have any reason to not want that .

[BigBallinStalin]

I've outsourced my CC posting ITT to BVP, and it has paid off tremendously.

[everywhere116]

I find it weird that a Georgian is defending Russian militaristic foreign policy.

[AAFitz]

I'd go for the "he was drunk" theory.

I even suspect he's a cc member.

Probably lost a 120 against 2 battle, and lost his temper.

[Baron Von PWN]

I find it weird that a Georgian is defending Russian militaristic foreign policy.

I'm a Canadian, I just happen to live in Georgia.

Let's see now just off the top of my head list of countries USA has been involved in militarily in the last two decades.

Serbia/ Former Yugoslavia (unprovoked; intervention in internal Serbian/yugoslav affairs)

Libya (Unprovoked; Intervention in internal Libyan affairs)

Iraq (Unprovoked; outright invasion and overthrow of government)

Afghanistan( semi-provoked; outright invasion and overthrow of government due to a terrorist group being present there.)

Pakistan (semi-provoked; bombings and commando raids of terrorist groups.)

Medley of African countries.

And Now Russia.

Georgia (Provoked; Georgia attempted to retake by force a region which didn't recognize central authority and in the process shelled Russian peacekeepers (there by the cease fire agreement from the Georgian civil war). )

Tell me again who has the militaristic foreign policy?

[BigBallinStalin]

OH SNAP!

[saxitoxin]

[2dimes]

Lybia could be considered provoked if we allow that "Lockerbie business" as a factor. They are certainly more than fashionably late for the party if that's the case though.

[BigBallinStalin]

Lybia is a terrible disease which affects 5 million children around the world every year.

[2dimes]

Not as much now. "Mission accomplished sparky!"

[cutebastard71]

So how about this, China and Russia set up missile defence system in Cuba and South America to prevent possible attacks against there economic interests e.g. oil sources, mines, etc ? Would you in USA feel comfortable about that ?

[GreecePwns]

That is not a very apt comparison because the US would not in a million years nuke Cuba or South America.

Let' say Russia builds the same defense system in Belarus and the Ukraine and every other country that relies on Gazprom. The US now cannot threaten to nuke Russia, meaning its power projection abilities are severely cut. How do Americans and pro-American governments feel about that?

On the other hand, what would happen if both countries had similar defense systems? An interesting question to ponder.

[Juan_Bottom]

Russia did attempt to build a missile defense system in Cuba.
In the end we were 1/2 of an hour away from a full-scale nuclear war when the Soviets decided to be the bigger man and quit.

[saxitoxin]

The analogies are becoming increasingly complex and difficult for me to follow in this thread.



NOW, suppose Burkina Faso set-up a missile defense system in Peru to protect a shoe factory owned by the Burkinan president and the Chinese then attacked Ecuador and some shrapnel hit a Namibian construction worker who had been installing a new air conditioning system at the Burkinan missile system but went on a day trip to Quito -- how would the U.S. feel about THAT?

[BigBallinStalin]

That is not a very apt comparison because the US would not in a million years nuke Cuba or South America.

Let' say Russia builds the same defense system in Belarus and the Ukraine and every other country that relies on Gazprom. The US now cannot threaten to nuke Russia, meaning its power projection abilities are severely cut. How do Americans and pro-American governments feel about that?

On the other hand, what would happen if both countries had similar defense systems? An interesting question to ponder.

From what I remember, the US is decades ahead in missile defense technology and capabilities. It requires more than a few missile sites, and I don't think the Russians could build a comparably effective* system fast enough to counter the US.


*the effectiveness of these systems are unknown, the results aren't disclosed, or is overestimated. I don't think they'll work as well as imagined.

[BigBallinStalin]

The analogies are becoming increasingly complex and difficult for me to follow in this thread.



NOW, suppose Burkina Faso set-up a missile defense system in Peru to protect a shoe factory owned by the Burkinan president and the Chinese then attacked Ecuador and some shrapnel hit a Namibian construction worker who had been installing a new air conditioning system at the Burkinan missile system but went on a day trip to Quito -- how would the U.S. feel about THAT?

The Namibian construction worker must seek compensation through the UN.

[cutebastard71]

That is not a very apt comparison because the US would not in a million years nuke Cuba or South America.

Let' say Russia builds the same defense system in Belarus and the Ukraine and every other country that relies on Gazprom. The US now cannot threaten to nuke Russia, meaning its power projection abilities are severely cut. How do Americans and pro-American governments feel about that?

On the other hand, what would happen if both countries had similar defense systems? An interesting question to ponder.

The only issue is the proximity of US military systems to Russian borders.

[saxitoxin]

The minions are preparing to spend the next 2 weeks beating drums and letting off fireworks right outside the cave of the Russian bear in an attempt to call it out.

SABER STRIKE! is a U.S. Army-led, multi-national exercise scheduled for June 10- 22 at multiple training areas in Estonia and Latvia. The exercise promotes regional stability and security, strengthens international military partnering and fosters trust while improving interoperability between participating nations. SABER STRIKE! 2012 will consist of situational training exercises and a field training exercise taking place at the Adazi training area, Latvia. A command post exercise will be conducted at various sites in Estonia, including one near Tapa. In addition to the U.S. Army Europe, Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania, other participants include: Canada, Finland, France and the UK.

http://www.eur.army.mil/news/2012/06042 ... action.htm

The Finn, once again, makes a mockery of international law. The Finn is bound by treaty to permanent neutrality as punishment for his crimes against civilization in WWII yet here he engages in warmongering with a foreign military alliance. How is this not illegal? The so-called "policeman of the world" is right there - why doesn't he arrest the scofflaw? Because the policeman is a crooked cop.