D-Day: Omaha Beach! [Quenched]

johloh · Post by **johloh** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 7:27 pm

yeah i pmed my map to mibi and I think we both agree that they are very different styles...and that they actually compliment eachother because mine will have the larger scale troop movements, while mibi's will be a zoomed in beach landing battle that was the most important single part of the invasion...

ill get a draft up by sometime this weekend so this makes more sense.

luckiekevin · Post by **luckiekevin** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 7:29 pm

And I am not saying this because of any bias towards Johlo's map, but I'm not that fond of this one thus far. I don't like how the map gives no perspective of Normandy or the invasion forces. It's far too simple and the invasion had more involved then just those beaches, which are not actually just straight ahead beaches. Also Rommel's Panzer divisions were too far away to have any impact on the Normandy landings. There was a huge blunder on the German side in that the Panzer divisions did not make their way to the Allied forces until far after the allies established a beach head and cleared out all german artillery.

Coleman · Post by **Coleman** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 7:33 pm

Well the way I will probably view the differences between your map and this one, is that this is more of a single Soldier's perspective. This is all one soldier would need to know. While your map sounds like what a General in the air would be interested in.

luckiekevin · Post by **luckiekevin** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 7:45 pm

Coleman wrote:Well the way I will probably view the differences between your map and this one, is that this is more of a single Soldier's perspective. This is all one soldier would need to know. While your map sounds like what a General in the air would be interested in.

Well, I would respectfully disagree with the "all one soldier would need to know" comment as all those involved knew the entire operation inside out from the first day they began training for it. From the Airborne to the Infantry. But thats beside the point. I do think that something can be made of this map but I just feel that some liberties have been taken with the historical account of the invasion. I also agree with Johloh that mibi's map could do a good job focusing on the landings themselves.

Omaha is not between Juno and Sword, it's actually far away to the west next to UTAH beach, which was the most crucial beach head in the invasion as the hills above Utah (veroville) unleashed artillery on the entire allied beach invasion.

The order of beaches are as follows from west to east

UTAH (90 degree angle to the other beachheads), Omaha, Gold, Juno, Sword.

Coleman · Post by **Coleman** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 8:00 pm

Well if we wanted to make this slightly more historically accurate I'd say to rename the beaches to: Omaha <-> Gold <-> Juno as I'd like to see Omaha stay since it is a fairly famous one.

luckiekevin wrote:Well, I would respectfully disagree with the "all one soldier would need to know" comment as all those involved knew the entire operation inside out from the first day they began training for it.

I get what you're saying, but when you storm that beach you're gonna be focused on your one objective and not thinking about everything else that is going on. Or maybe I'm an idiot. Either way...

luckiekevin · Post by **luckiekevin** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 8:15 pm

I think that Utah and Omaha where with two most pivotal beaches. So I'm with you on that. I see your point with the soldier focus on their 1st task.

spiesr · Post by **spiesr** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 8:51 pm

Something needs to be on fire...

KEYOGI · Post by **KEYOGI** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:28 pm

Which name do you prefer?

Battle of Normandy!
21% [ 4 ]
D-Day!
42% [ 8 ]
Operation Overlord!
36% [ 7 ]
Invasion!
0% [ 0 ]

Total Votes : 19

KEYOGI · Post by **KEYOGI** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:33 pm

I'm so glad someone is finally tackling the D-Day invasions. I think there's definately room for both mibi's and johloh's maps, and based on talks I've had with Andy in the past there won't be any problem having both maps quenched. My understanding is, it will be a bit like our Netherlands and BeNeLux situation we have at the moment.

Just on the name thing, my opinion is it would be most appropriate to give the map the title of "Operation Overlord". The battles in Normandy and on D-Day were a lot more involved than just the beach landings, so I find those references a little silly. :wink:

johloh · Post by **johloh** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 10:04 pm

I think there's definately room for both mibi's and johloh's maps, and based on talks I've had with Andy in the past there won't be any problem having both maps quenched

good to hear...ill get out of here and start my own thread in a few days once i have a good draft...

Arcanos · Post by **Arcanos** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 10:44 pm

it bugs me that the ocean is on the bottom of the map.... i know its not a big deal or anything, but i always think of bottom=south top= north and in this map it would be flip-floped
.......but then again i guess if you were coming in on a boat as a soldier this would be more of your perspective with the beach cliffs approaching

i also think that one of the graphical challenges will be to make the sea walls and bunkers

luckiekevin · Post by **luckiekevin** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 10:59 pm

yeah I also agree about the beaches being on the top when they were facing north.

Qwert · Post by **Qwert** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:06 am

Agree-must be on top, and yours story that these beaches was more importan then other, wrong. Exept omaha, all others have light casulty, and only unit in atack on ponte du hoc have bigest casulty(over 50%)

hulmey · Post by **hulmey** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 5:05 am

This is my map that i was doing of the Normandy invasions...So i really feel Mibi has pinched my idea...Daylight robbery, yes Doctor Watson!!!

Qwert · Post by **Qwert** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 7:27 am

Vell hulmey, you can continue work with Mibi hepl :wink:

mibi · Post by **mibi** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 8:23 am

hulmey wrote:This is my map that i was doing of the Normandy invasions...So i really feel Mibi has pinched my idea...Daylight robbery, yes Doctor Watson!!!

yes hulmey, that was gave me the idea in the first place... but i knew you were never going to be able to take it where i wanted it to go graphically, also the top half looked confusing as hell and while our ships and beach are similar... my sea wall, pill boxes, turrents, are very different, i also dont have camps...

sorry if you feel like i ripped off your idea, which i did to an extent, but it was really just a jumping off point.

mibi · Post by **mibi** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 8:30 am

ok just throwing this up to show you where this is going graphically, i have some random army circles and numbers in there.

as for the whole historical thing, maybe this could just be Omaha beach, and the beaches could be named after the landing zones, Charlie, Dog, Easy, Fox or whatever... that might be best, but then what would the flats be named?

oh and i got rid of the confusing one ways and just put some hole sin the seal wall.

for labels and such refer to the original, they arnt in this version yet.

DiM · Post by **DiM** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 8:35 am

barbwires, antitank metal thingys, trenches, ships are blurry just like the little bunkers.

maybe wait with the gameplay until the xml upgrades are in place ranged attacks could be perfect on this map.

from the bunkers to the beach, and from the ships to the bunkers.

also some soldiers on the map would do miracles visually. running, taking cover dead, etc.

PS: the legend is really bad.

hulmey · Post by **hulmey** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 8:46 am

Ok mibi, im not going to take it any further....But might we chat about it so maybe you can see where i was going with it??

Coz it would be great to see my idea with your graphics...I dont want any acknowlegement just to see it with your fantastic graphics is enough...

My version also had trenches which would be fantatsic for gameplay

You want to create a feel with the pill boxes towering over the sand , which is littered with barbed wire fences

mibi · Post by **mibi** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 8:56 am

DiM wrote:barbwires, antitank metal thingys, trenches, ships are blurry just like the little bunkers.

maybe wait with the gameplay until the xml upgrades are in place ranged attacks could be perfect on this map.

from the bunkers to the beach, and from the ships to the bunkers.

also some soldiers on the map would do miracles visually. running, taking cover dead, etc.

PS: the legend is really bad.

yeah all that stuff is good, but i all ready having to-scale problems, so if i included barbwire and hedgehogs there would be endless complaining about them being too big or too small... i tried to include hedgehogs (thost metal X things) on the beach but they really didnt look like much except for X's from above.

soldier would be cool, but i anticipate endless complaining over that issue as well...

also this map has ranged attacks from the turret, id like to wait for xml upgrades, but i dont anticipate it for several months, we havent even begin to talk about it and you know how long it takes for things to get official around here.

mibi · Post by **mibi** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 8:59 am

hulmey wrote:Ok mibi, im not going to take it any further....But might we chat about it so maybe you can see where i was going with it??

Coz it would be great to see my idea with your graphics...I dont want any acknowlegement just to see it with your fantastic graphics is enough...

My version also had trenches which would be fantatsic for gameplay

You want to create a feel with the pill boxes towering over the sand , which is littered with barbed wire fences

feel free to PM me... and i didnt see any trenches... im not sure if trenches were a big part of the d-day landings.

johloh · Post by **johloh** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 10:57 am

id like to wait for xml upgrades

yeah no point in waiting, we have no idea how long it will take. its always something that you could add later if the changes come into effect.

hulmey · Post by **hulmey** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 11:08 am

yes trenches where a massive part of D-Day landings.....Germans had trenches connecting to bunkers for 100 miles along the coasts of France

mibi · Post by **mibi** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 11:52 am

hulmey wrote:yes trenches where a massive part of D-Day landings.....Germans had trenches connecting to bunkers for 100 miles along the coasts of France

oh ok... yeah i thought you meant on the beach... as for german trenches, the borders in the flats look like trenches.. so thats cool...

Coleman · Post by **Coleman** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:17 pm

mibi wrote:id like to wait for xml upgrades, but i dont anticipate it for several months,

Nor sure what you may want to implement here that would require some sort of xml upgrade. Everything looks like something that is possible at the moment without excessive coding. If you were referring to this map.

D-Day: Omaha Beach! [Quenched]

FIRE!