Easter: The Greatest Love Story Ever Told

[chang50]

What a bizarre outburst,it's my firm opinion that to say someone hates Christianity as a kneejerk reaction to any honest scepticism/questioning is somewhat immature,and I suspect you would not like it either.

Oh, forgive me if I misinterpreted your meaning. Are you saying you don't have a bias against Christianity?

Your point would have more force if Christians had behaved a little bit more like they were supposed to over the last 2000 years.

So for the last 2000 years, the entire span of Christianity, Christians haven't behaved? How are Christians supposed to behave?

I just read an underlying animosity toward Christianity in your post, and likely to all religions. In that post I see no "scepticism/questioning" at all.
You don't seem skeptical in saying Christians have not been behaving for the entirety of their existence.
You don't seem to be questioning your belief in on the ill deeds of Christians.
You seem to have lumped Christians in their entirety and ignore the individual aspect. As if judging just because someone is a Christian they must believe <This (insert whatever your perception is> instead of acknowledging that people are individuals and have their own minds.

You don't assume that this "Christians not behaving" as attributed to the teachings of Jesus, do you?
I mean, that is what this thread is about, Jesus. What misbehavior can you attribute to Jesus?
Certainly, Theocratic systems almost always lead to some sort of injustice or ill deeds. Those cases of "Christians not behaving" can be attributed to the merging of Church and State or the acts of fool individuals who do harmful deeds in the name of God. A phenomenon not exclusive to Christianity....

Christianity just happens to be the religion discussed most often here,probably 'cos most posters are from an at least nominally Christian background,I am equally disbelieving of all religions.My wife is Buddhist,she accepts I am not,without accusing me of hating it.What I said about Christianity would apply to just about any religion 'cos I believe Homo Sapiens are incapable of living up to the ideals of religions,so I stand by my original opinion that whichever religion gained ascendancy would not greatly alter things,we would just go on doing good and bad irrespective.How do you know that if Christianity hadn't flourished another belief wouldn't have filled the vacuum with similiar results?It's all speculation and opinion in the end.

[Night Strike]

Did Jesus support the notion that the only way to salvation was by accepting our inherent flawed nature and submitting to a higher power?
Do you not see how this contradicts with your individualism doctrine?

You say Jesus helped us fight the pressure to submit to state or priest, if only he had gone all the way and helped fight the pressure to submit to god as well ...

That's because it's impossible for a person to become righteous on their own. We have all sinned, and there is no way to do enough good things to outweigh that sin. Only the holy and righteous can be in God's presence as those that even look at the face of God and contain sin will die immediately. God wants us to submit to Him because he is the only perfect being in existence and the only one worthy of being submitted to. Plus, submission to God actually means freedom from being drug down in bondage by sin.

[Symmetry]

Your point would have more force if Christians had behaved a little bit more like they were supposed to over the last 2000 years.

And can you not see how you are projecting what Theocracies, States and the injustices individuals did in those times to blaming individuals of today who have never committed such atrocities?

Your obvious hatred of Christianity clouds you perception so that you assume Christians of today are like those of 2000 years ago.
You blame the mistakes of those in the past on those who live today.

It is very short sighted and bigoted if you think about it honestly....

Oh that tired old canard again,'you hate Christianity',I suppose it was due an airing.Can you not recognise intellectual curiousity,bemusement,bafflement?I want to understand the longevity and enduring nature of particular myths such as Christianity as opposed to the vast majority that rise briefly and disappear.Are you so emotionally invested in your beliefs that you have to automatically ascribe ill motives to any outsider who sincerely questions those beliefs?I hope not because it makes adult discussion very difficult..

Yeah, when you grow up a bit and understand what discussions are, as opposed to referring to them as "adult" discussions, do come back and have a talk. Plenty of people to argue with, agree with, or have a adult discussion with.

What a bizarre outburst,it's my firm opinion that to say someone hates Christianity as a kneejerk reaction to any honest scepticism/questioning is somewhat immature,and I suspect you would not like it either.

So what is your opinion on Christianity? You certainly don't like it, and are obviously not ambivalent, how would you describe your attitude toward the faith?

[chang50]

And can you not see how you are projecting what Theocracies, States and the injustices individuals did in those times to blaming individuals of today who have never committed such atrocities?

Your obvious hatred of Christianity clouds you perception so that you assume Christians of today are like those of 2000 years ago.
You blame the mistakes of those in the past on those who live today.

It is very short sighted and bigoted if you think about it honestly....[/quote]
Oh that tired old canard again,'you hate Christianity',I suppose it was due an airing.Can you not recognise intellectual curiousity,bemusement,bafflement?I want to understand the longevity and enduring nature of particular myths such as Christianity as opposed to the vast majority that rise briefly and disappear.Are you so emotionally invested in your beliefs that you have to automatically ascribe ill motives to any outsider who sincerely questions those beliefs?I hope not because it makes adult discussion very difficult..[/quote]

Yeah, when you grow up a bit and understand what discussions are, as opposed to referring to them as "adult" discussions, do come back and have a talk. Plenty of people to argue with, agree with, or have a adult discussion with.[/quote]

What a bizarre outburst,it's my firm opinion that to say someone hates Christianity as a kneejerk reaction to any honest scepticism/questioning is somewhat immature,and I suspect you would not like it either.[/quote]

So what is your opinion on Christianity? You certainly don't like it, and are obviously not ambivalent, how would you describe your attitude toward the faith?[/quote]

Much the same as all religions,it's adherents are mostly sincere but mistaken.I say mostly as there will inevitably be some whose motives are dodgy,as everywhere.I don't hate them,they just baffle me.Of course it could be that I am mistaken and one of the thousands of religions is correct,I look forward to the day when a religious believer admits as much.Perhaps if religion could be discussed in the same manner as other subjects you wouldn't see my different perspective as animosity,however it seems to be a special category where we are required to 'respect each others beliefs',when what should be respected is the right to hold such beliefs.

[BigBallinStalin]

Did Jesus support the notion that the only way to salvation was by accepting our inherent flawed nature and submitting to a higher power?
Do you not see how this contradicts with your individualism doctrine?

You say Jesus helped us fight the pressure to submit to state or priest, if only he had gone all the way and helped fight the pressure to submit to god as well ...

That's because it's impossible for a person to become righteous on their own. We have all sinned, and there is no way to do enough good things to outweigh that sin. Only the holy and righteous can be in God's presence as those that even look at the face of God and contain sin will die immediately. God wants us to submit to Him because he is the only perfect being in existence and the only one worthy of being submitted to. Plus, submission to God actually means freedom from being drug down in bondage by sin.

Well, that settles it. I guess all the other non-God religions have got it wrong, so their believers are all going to hell. Seems fair and reasonable!

[Night Strike]

Did Jesus support the notion that the only way to salvation was by accepting our inherent flawed nature and submitting to a higher power?
Do you not see how this contradicts with your individualism doctrine?

You say Jesus helped us fight the pressure to submit to state or priest, if only he had gone all the way and helped fight the pressure to submit to god as well ...

That's because it's impossible for a person to become righteous on their own. We have all sinned, and there is no way to do enough good things to outweigh that sin. Only the holy and righteous can be in God's presence as those that even look at the face of God and contain sin will die immediately. God wants us to submit to Him because he is the only perfect being in existence and the only one worthy of being submitted to. Plus, submission to God actually means freedom from being drug down in bondage by sin.

Well, that settles it. I guess all the other non-God religions have got it wrong, so their believers are all going to hell. Seems fair and reasonable!

Actually, that is the reality of things. Reality isn't always the way you want it to be or think it should be. The Bible says "I [Jesus] am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." There is no other way to get to heaven besides accepting the gift of forgiveness through Christ.

[chang50]

Did Jesus support the notion that the only way to salvation was by accepting our inherent flawed nature and submitting to a higher power?
Do you not see how this contradicts with your individualism doctrine?

You say Jesus helped us fight the pressure to submit to state or priest, if only he had gone all the way and helped fight the pressure to submit to god as well ...

That's because it's impossible for a person to become righteous on their own. We have all sinned, and there is no way to do enough good things to outweigh that sin. Only the holy and righteous can be in God's presence as those that even look at the face of God and contain sin will die immediately. God wants us to submit to Him because he is the only perfect being in existence and the only one worthy of being submitted to. Plus, submission to God actually means freedom from being drug down in bondage by sin.

Well, that settles it. I guess all the other non-God religions have got it wrong, so their believers are all going to hell. Seems fair and reasonable!

Actually, that is the reality of things. Reality isn't always the way you want it to be or think it should be. The Bible says "I [Jesus] am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." There is no other way to get to heaven besides accepting the gift of forgiveness through Christ.

I still don't understand why a perfect being wants anything,wouldn't wanting anything at all make it imperfect?

[Night Strike]

Did Jesus support the notion that the only way to salvation was by accepting our inherent flawed nature and submitting to a higher power?
Do you not see how this contradicts with your individualism doctrine?

You say Jesus helped us fight the pressure to submit to state or priest, if only he had gone all the way and helped fight the pressure to submit to god as well ...

That's because it's impossible for a person to become righteous on their own. We have all sinned, and there is no way to do enough good things to outweigh that sin. Only the holy and righteous can be in God's presence as those that even look at the face of God and contain sin will die immediately. God wants us to submit to Him because he is the only perfect being in existence and the only one worthy of being submitted to. Plus, submission to God actually means freedom from being drug down in bondage by sin.

Well, that settles it. I guess all the other non-God religions have got it wrong, so their believers are all going to hell. Seems fair and reasonable!

Actually, that is the reality of things. Reality isn't always the way you want it to be or think it should be. The Bible says "I [Jesus] am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." There is no other way to get to heaven besides accepting the gift of forgiveness through Christ.

I still don't understand why a perfect being wants anything,wouldn't wanting anything at all make it imperfect?

Because you're assuming "wanting" is defined as the human term of wanting something that other people have (aka coveting). God wants a relationship with us because he is the only perfect being in existence and we are his creation. Wouldn't you desire a relationship with someone you created?

[chang50]

at's because it's impossible for a person to become righteous on their own. We have all sinned, and there is no way to do enough good things to outweigh that sin. Only the holy and righteous can be in God's presence as those that even look at the face of God and contain sin will die immediately. God wants us to submit to Him because he is the only perfect being in existence and the only one worthy of being submitted to. Plus, submission to God actually means freedom from being drug down in bondage by sin.[/quote]

Well, that settles it. I guess all the other non-God religions have got it wrong, so their believers are all going to hell. Seems fair and reasonable![/quote]

Actually, that is the reality of things. Reality isn't always the way you want it to be or think it should be. The Bible says "I [Jesus] am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." There is no other way to get to heaven besides accepting the gift of forgiveness through Christ.[/quote]

I still don't understand why a perfect being wants anything,wouldn't wanting anything at all make it imperfect?[/quote]

Because you're assuming "wanting" is defined as the human term of wanting something that other people have (aka coveting). God wants a relationship with us because he is the only perfect being in existence and we are his creation. Wouldn't you desire a relationship with someone you created?[/quote]

Actually I don't think I was assuming that at all.Put it another way,why would a perfect being desire/need/want in any way?How can you have any emotional life at all if you are omniscient?

[Night Strike]

You need to learn out to properly quote posts, otherwise you will become like PLAYER.

Actually I don't think I was assuming that at all.Put it another way,why would a perfect being desire/need/want in any way?How can you have any emotional life at all if you are omniscient?

Just because you know all things doesn't mean you wouldn't want a relationship with those you created. God didn't just create us and leave everything to run on its own (Deism). He wants a personal relationship with us because He is our creator.

[chang50]

You need to learn out to properly quote posts, otherwise you will become like PLAYER.

Actually I don't think I was assuming that at all.Put it another way,why would a perfect being desire/need/want in any way?How can you have any emotional life at all if you are omniscient?

Just because you know all things doesn't mean you wouldn't want a relationship with those you created. God didn't just create us and leave everything to run on its own (Deism). He wants a personal relationship with us because He is our creator.

Sorry I'm still not convinced,surely an omniscient deity already knows in advance whether he will have a personal relationship or not with his creation?In what sense of the word can he want something when the outcome of that want is already known to him?

[BigBallinStalin]

Did Jesus support the notion that the only way to salvation was by accepting our inherent flawed nature and submitting to a higher power?
Do you not see how this contradicts with your individualism doctrine?

You say Jesus helped us fight the pressure to submit to state or priest, if only he had gone all the way and helped fight the pressure to submit to god as well ...

That's because it's impossible for a person to become righteous on their own. We have all sinned, and there is no way to do enough good things to outweigh that sin. Only the holy and righteous can be in God's presence as those that even look at the face of God and contain sin will die immediately. God wants us to submit to Him because he is the only perfect being in existence and the only one worthy of being submitted to. Plus, submission to God actually means freedom from being drug down in bondage by sin.

Well, that settles it. I guess all the other non-God religions have got it wrong, so their believers are all going to hell. Seems fair and reasonable!

Actually, that is the reality of things. Reality isn't always the way you want it to be or think it should be. The Bible says "I [Jesus] am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." There is no other way to get to heaven besides accepting the gift of forgiveness through Christ.

How do you know?

NS: I'm right because this book says so.
Jew: No, I'm right because the Torah says so.
Muslim: No, I'm right because the Quran says so.
Cube God Believer: No, I'm right because the Cube God says so.
Zen Buddhist: All of you are stuck in "either-or" thinking. Read some contradictory koans, and you won't get it.

etc.

That's the reality for most believers, and none of the above can falsify the faith-based claims of each other. (The Zen Buddhists take a novel approach which is much more productive than the approaches above it).

Besides, why is it correct to base one's beliefs on a logical fallacy like the appeal to authority or on circular reasoning?

[BigBallinStalin]

You need to learn out to properly quote posts, otherwise you will become like PLAYER.

Actually I don't think I was assuming that at all.Put it another way,why would a perfect being desire/need/want in any way?How can you have any emotional life at all if you are omniscient?

Just because you know all things doesn't mean you wouldn't want a relationship with those you created. God didn't just create us and leave everything to run on its own (Deism). He wants a personal relationship with us because He is our creator.

No, that doesn't follow. It could be either. The "Creator" might want a relationship, or it might not. You have no idea, but your faith will lead you to believe that your assumption is the correct one.

[Lootifer]

TLDR