The Great Lakes -- [Quenched]

WidowMakers · Post by **WidowMakers** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 5:12 pm

Here are the updates that Keyogi suggested
-I cleaned up the coastline to make it more gradual
-I made the arrows easier to see by giving them a white glow.
-Switched the colors of Ohio and Pennsylvania to separate the pink, purple, and blue colors more.
-Fixed the cloud issue at the top of the map by the title
-Swapped the impassable border images to make sure people don't think the mountains are on the map.
-Adjusted the army shadows of Mackinac and Toronto.

And here is what they look like with army numbers
LARGE
No Flags / Armies

No Flags

Flags /Armies

Flags

Small
Flags

keiths31 · Post by **keiths31** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 5:28 pm

Great map...just great

DiM · Post by **DiM** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 5:35 pm

the green thing that sticks out into the ocean from new york city looks like a dildo :shock:

it could be an elf dildo cause it's green.

but it has no pointy ears so it could be an ogre dildo.

d.gishman · Post by **d.gishman** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:36 pm

I love the way the Ontario flag is blended into Ontario, but the flags don't seem to suit the rest of the states, probably because Ontario is red and the union jack blends really well with that, but some colors of certain flags tend to clash with the colors of the states.

vakEirn79 · Post by **vakEirn79** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:39 pm

Maybe move "Goshen" and its army circle down slightly? Also, Detroit's army circle is crowding the border a bit. Seems like there's enough room to move it right a few pixels.

I like the flags, but I think they looked better in earlier versions of the map, when the coloured border around each state/province wasn't so thick. Right now, some flags stand out very well (Ontario, Ohio), and some are barely noticeable (Pennsylvania in particular). As is, the basic one is cleaner. The flag version looks livelier, but a bit murky at parts.

Something that just occured to me - the text legend should probably be ordered in some way. I don't see any sort of pattern for the current list. A few ways logical ways to arrange the names:

Geographically - Ontario, Minnesota, Michigan, NY, Illinois, etc (going N-S, W-E in the example, although W-E, N-S would also work)
Value - Ontario, Michigan, Wisconsin, Ohio, Illinois, etc (again N-S, W-E for any ties)
Alphabetically - if you're reading this, then you shouldn't need an example

Coleman · Post by **Coleman** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:10 pm

I like the version without flags better actually. I think the flags make the map look dirty for lack of a better word. Like, I want to reach up to my monitor and rub the colors clean again.

KEYOGI · Post by **KEYOGI** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:42 pm

I think it's the clarity of the flags that is the problem. Maybe WidowMakers can bump up the visibilty of some of the flags to see if it helps.

Unit_2 · Post by **Unit_2** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:57 pm

why did you take out Harrisburg? its the capitol of Pennsylvania..

and the arrow from Cleveland to Lake Erie is still the pink color and so is some of the back-ground.

DublinDoogey · Post by **DublinDoogey** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 10:10 pm

I've been following this a bit, and I'm really impressed by the latest stages. I'd have to vote for the version without flags, it looks cleaner than the one with the flags. Also, I'm wondering how set you are on the lake to shore arrows, I think that having a sorta smudged show is a great way to do it, but adding the arrows kinda cluters that up, if that makes any sense.

WidowMakers · Post by **WidowMakers** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 5:22 pm

d.gishman wrote:I love the way the Ontario flag is blended into Ontario, but the flags don't seem to suit the rest of the states, probably because Ontario is red and the union jack blends really well with that, but some colors of certain flags tend to clash with the colors of the states.

vakEirn79 wrote:I like the flags, but I think they looked better in earlier versions of the map, when the coloured border around each state/province wasn't so thick. Right now, some flags stand out very well (Ontario, Ohio), and some are barely noticeable (Pennsylvania in particular). As is, the basic one is cleaner. The flag version looks livelier, but a bit murky at parts.

KEYOGI wrote:I think it's the clarity of the flags that is the problem. Maybe WidowMakers can bump up the visibilty of some of the flags to see if it helps.

It does seem that more people like the map without the flags. I do like how Ontario, Indiana and Ohio look. Those flags blend well with the border colors. The others however mostly have blue in the flags. That does not blend well. If I make them more visible the territory text is hard to read. I will post an updated "more visible" flag pick.

vakEirn79 wrote:Maybe move "Goshen" and its army circle down slightly? Also, Detroit's army circle is crowding the border a bit. Seems like there's enough room to move it right a few pixels.

Done

vakEirn79 wrote:Something that just occured to me - the text legend should probably be ordered in some way. I don't see any sort of pattern for the current list. A few ways logical ways to arrange the names:
Geographically - Ontario, Minnesota, Michigan, NY, Illinois, etc (going N-S, W-E in the example, although W-E, N-S would also work)
Value - Ontario, Michigan, Wisconsin, Ohio, Illinois, etc (again N-S, W-E for any ties)
Alphabetically - if you're reading this, then you shouldn't need an example

These are all good ideas but they were positioned according to the length of the name. Based on the space I had and the perspective of the map, the longest name is on the top and the shortest on the bottom.

Unit_2 wrote:why did you take out Harrisburg? its the capitol of Pennsylvania..

Someone suggested that it was in the mountains and should be changed. I put it back. If there is an issue we will conduct a poll.

Unit_2 wrote:and the arrow from Cleveland to Lake Erie is still the pink color and so is some of the back-ground.

Fixed

DublinDoogey wrote:I've been following this a bit, and I'm really impressed by the latest stages. I'd have to vote for the version without flags, it looks cleaner than the one with the flags. Also, I'm wondering how set you are on the lake to shore arrows, I think that having a sorta smudged show is a great way to do it, but adding the arrows kinda cluters that up, if that makes any sense.

I understand where you are coming from but if there are not arrows then there would need to be text "Lakes can attack land at the blurry shorelines. Only land can attack lakes at the blurry shorelines." With the arrows no text description is needed and it is easier to see and understand for more people. Especially the people who don't read the text on maps anyway.

KEYOGI · Post by **KEYOGI** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 5:27 pm

I don't mind the flags now that they're more obvious, but I do feel you would need to perhaps add a glow or something to the text to make it stand out a little more.

pancakemix · Post by **pancakemix** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 5:43 pm

I'm sorry to be the nit-picking evil type, but my opinion on Harrisburg stands. As a resident of Pennsylvania, I feel the name given previously (Scranton) was better, not only that Harrisburg is in the mountain range, but it is much smaller than Scranton, as is my understanding. If Harrisburg is the popular view, I'll withdraw from my argument. But until then, I'm sticking with Scranton.

DiM · Post by **DiM** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 5:46 pm

DiM wrote:the green thing that sticks out into the ocean from new york city looks like a dildo

it could be an elf dildo cause it's green. but it has no pointy ears so it could be an ogre dildo.

i really wasn't joking in the post i quoted above.

maybe i should put this in a more serious way though.

the green thing is too green, it seems to be darker then the rest of the continent and it sortof hurts the ey, try toning it down a bit.

wiggybowler · Post by **wiggybowler** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 9:03 pm

I would look at the colors, a few of them are together that are really close in color

Kugelblitz22 · Post by **Kugelblitz22** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 10:48 pm

I love this map.

Oh yeah,

No Flags!

Gozar · Post by **Gozar** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 10:52 pm

Flags!

Coleman · Post by **Coleman** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 10:54 pm

Flags are for sissies! :lol:

We may need a poll to end this debate once and for all. Or a firm decision one way or the other from WidowMakers.

ruthlessontogeny · Post by **ruthlessontogeny** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 11:33 pm

i agree that the map without the flags looks cleaner. the only flag that stands out to me is the union jack, the rest you can't really see unless you look for them. aesthetically it would certainly be nice to have them, but they may not be practical.

i also agree with whomever said that the double legend is redundant. it seems that the reduced map with the continent values is sufficient for playability purposes. true, you then wouldn't have the names of the continents on there, but that just doesn't seem important to me from most perspectives.

finally, if you're concerned with clutter, especially in and around the lakes, you could take out the "lake" qualifier and label each of them simply "superior", "huron", "erie", etc. just a thought.

i love the map though. can we play this soon????

ParadiceCity9 · Post by **ParadiceCity9** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 11:36 pm

this is a great map i love it.

mibi · Post by **mibi** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 11:57 pm

DiM wrote:
DiM wrote:the green thing that sticks out into the ocean from new york city looks like a dildo

it could be an elf dildo cause it's green. but it has no pointy ears so it could be an ogre dildo.

i really wasn't joking in the post i quoted above.

maybe i should put this in a more serious way though.

the green thing is too green, it seems to be darker then the rest of the continent and it sortof hurts the ey, try toning it down a bit.

its Long Island... and yeah, it's full of dildos.

WidowMakers · Post by **WidowMakers** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 6:58 am

Sorry everyone. I have had a long weekend and will look over the suggestions and issues Monday. I will post new pics and try to get some of these things sorted out. The biggest I see is the FLAGS/NO FLAGS issue. I believe that will be the next poll.

ruthlessontogeny wrote:finally, if you're concerned with clutter, especially in and around the lakes, you could take out the "lake" qualifier and label each of them simply "superior", "huron", "erie", etc. just a thought.

Do others feel this is a good idea? It would free up space and make the names shorter.

DiM wrote:DiM wrote:
DiM wrote:
the green thing that sticks out into the ocean from new york city looks like a dildo

it could be an elf dildo cause it's green. but it has no pointy ears so it could be an ogre dildo.

i really wasn't joking in the post i quoted above.

maybe i should put this in a more serious way though.

the green thing is too green, it seems to be darker then the rest of the continent and it sortof hurts the ey, try toning it down a bit.

and DiM. The green thing in New York State? It is called Long Island. Just try to keep a clean mind when you play this map. If you have a problem with it call NYC and have them bulldoze it into the ocean. And changing its color won't change it shape. It Stays!

fireedud · Post by **fireedud** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 9:25 am

I like the one with flags, except for PA. I barely see the flag in that state.

KEYOGI · Post by **KEYOGI** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:48 pm

The Great Lakes map is.....

good to go. Just needs the XML now!
59% [ 32 ]
ok but it still needs some name changes.
5% [ 3 ]
pretty close. Some borders need to be adjusted.
7% [ 4 ]
nearly done. Bonuses need work.
7% [ 4 ]
good playability wise. Needs some graphics fixes.
16% [ 9 ]
other. (please post suggestions)
3% [ 2 ]

Total Votes : 54

edbeard · Post by **edbeard** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 5:23 pm

1.
i'm counting 49 territories

minnesota 3, wisconsin 4, illinois 5, indiana 3, ohio 5, pennsylvania 4, new york 4, michigan 7, lakes 5, ontario 9

3 + 4 + 5 + 3 + 5 + 4 + 4 + 7 +5 + 9 = 49

I counted three times but I could be wrong!

Maybe you have reason for 49, maybe people don't think it's a huge deal. It's just nice to have no neutrals for 3, 4 and 6 player games.

I don't think it's a huge deal, but deserves discussion, and I didnt see any in previous pages. (maybe I missed it?)

2.
I think leaving "lake" in all the names is fine. doesn't look cluttered to me.

3.
I love the flags and think they add a lot to the look but the green and purple territories seem to blend with the flags for whatever reason. maybe try the light green on NY and the dark green on Illinois or something

edit: also put Scranton back! fans of "The Office" will love you for that

cheeseweasel · Post by **cheeseweasel** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 5:30 pm

This map is fantastic and will definitely become one of my favorites.

For the record - no flags