SFR Yugoslavia [Quenched]

[natty dread]

I'm considering it... I don't want to make hasty decisions here.

[natty dread]

Ok, I'll remove the impassable there. I'll try to get it done by the end of this week.

[thenobodies80]

Natty, just to be sure I don't want you make a change if you're not willing to do it. I asked for that change because I feel that 1vs1 games (the most popular on this site) could be better without that river in the middle (considering we can't work on neutrals).
But if you're absolutely sure that removing that river won't help and maybe it will ruin the other type of games, in particular team games - and I have to admit I don't play team games so often because people don't like to play with "low rank players" (stupid site where points count more than having fun ) - please don't make that change. I've read your response and it seems reasonable to me, as said I didn't play team games on this map so I'm not able to say a word about them.

So my final word is, if the change do not destroy your current good gameplay for team games, please do it. On the opposite leave the map as it is now, just it won't be a so good map for 1vs1.

Nobodies

[natty dread]

It's ok. I can't imagine it will make that huge a difference in team games or multiplayer. And on the off chance it does, we can always revert back to the current version.

I just have to decide whether I should shorten the river or add another bridge between Doboj/Trebinje...

[thenobodies80]

I would shorten the river, removing also the bridge (and the river) between Doboj and Titovo, so the river will be only between Doboj and Podrinje.

[Condestável]

Take a look at Red's advantage in this threesome:

Game 10208422

Red only needs to do one move to get + 2 next round and another move in the same place against a neutral 2 to get + 4 in two rounds only. I can only hope he doesn't come across this post.

Now what can I do besides praying he doesn't advance through Titogrado, Niksic and Adriatic Sea to get + 7 in three rounds?

Do you realise he has at hand: Kosovo, half of the capitals and also the ports in a couple of moves?

He will not win this game only if he has no clue or no luck at all.

I don't really see him having that big of an advantage, it's not very likely he can take both of Kosovo territories in the same round. If he takes one of them you have a good chance of breaking it.

Tell me how...

Game 10208422

All happened as I predicted.

He had an initial advantage that no one could break, unless he was not smart to get that or I had sided with green (unlikely I would do such).

Anyway, it's your map.

It's graphically superb, though the territory which is exactly Hungary painted with the yugo flag does not look ok.

[Dukasaur]

Game 10208422

All happened as I predicted.

He had an initial advantage that no one could break, unless he was not smart to get that or I had sided with green (unlikely I would do such).

Yeah, he got a really nice drop, and the odds are stacked against you. It would be no different if you were playing Classic and he got 3/4 of South America, and a neutral on Mexico City to protect him. Nice drops can happen on any map, as can bad ones.

[natty dread]

Dear Customer,
Thanks for your input. Let me assure you that your feedback is valuable to us and the entire Foundry. In this particular case, it is not feasible to implement the changes you suggest, but please do not let it discourage you from leaving further feedback to the maps in the Foundry. Your opinions are valuable to us.

Following are the reasons why your feedback was turned down:

- The map of Yugoslavia is part of the title. It's not meant to represent any land area in that position, and Hungary is not a playable part of the map. No one else has complained about having the flag in that location, so we have no reason to believe this is a problem to most of the players on the site.
- The map is not balanced for 3 player games. In general, 3-player games are among the least balanced of game types on any map. I suggest you try the map on some other game configuration, such as 4-8 player Standard/Terminator or possibly Doubles/Triples team games.

[Condestável]

I'm satisfied with the gameplay part. It's your game.

As for the map, it's obvious it's Yugoslavia, and while this is not a Geography or Politics website, justifying that a detailed map of Yugoslavia doesn't mean it's Yugoslavia is quite a stunt.

As for Hungary, naturally people won't complain, because most of them don't know where's Hungary. It's like painting Poland with the German flag and call it irrelevant. Doesn't bother me at all because I'm not the author. Just helping you more than I should care.

[natty dread]

Dear Customer,
We have received your additional notification. We would like to express our gratitude for your continued interest towards our product. Sadly, our Research & Development has informed us that they are not interested in your contribution at this time, but you shouldn't let this discourage you from submitting further suggestions for this or other products.

[thenobodies80]

Stop now.

[natty dread]

What? I'm doing the best I can to give a good experience to the foundry visitors, to ensure that they feel their feedback is being listened even when it's not being accepted. We wouldn't want to drive away commenters by casual comments, now would we?

[AndyDufresne]

Overall, I think I wouldn't mind seeing the river adjusted and some of those internal connections, but I don't think it is a must. From the games I played, the gameplay worked pretty well (from a 1vs1 stand point at least).


--Andy

[natty dread]

I'll do the river change, then we'll do some more playtesting, and if it sucks we can revert back to the current version.

[natty dread]

XML:

yugo3.xml

(18.8 KiB) Downloaded 1307 times

Large:
[bigimg]http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/2895/yugo20.png[/bigimg]

Small:
[bigimg]http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/8122/yugo20s.png[/bigimg]

[natty dread]

Is this being uploaded?

[thenobodies80]

Sent to the turtle, sorry for the little delay.
I fell asleep yesterday so I didn't send the files.

[natty dread]

Ok, nice.

[thenobodies80]

The new version should be live now.

[thenobodies80]

Started a final bunch of 1vs1 to see how it plays. I rarely play team games, so if anyone wants to give a feedback about the new version (with the river change) it would be great!

[thenobodies80]

Natty, what are your thoughts about the current version? I played some games in these days...it doesn't seem so much different to me, just a bit more open in the middle. Anyone with a feedback about team games?

[natty dread]

Well, I'm satisfied with how the map plays now. I haven't heard any complaints about the current gameplay. If no further objections arise I'd be happy to have this quenched as it is now.

[thenobodies80]

OK, nice. Let's go with a last call then.

Last Call

If anyone has any other comments on tweaking the gameplay/graphics, now is the time to speak up! If there are no other concerns within the next couple of days, this map will be quenched!

thenobodies80

[Radosh]

Hello,
I realy like this map, it gives you lot of diferent possibilities to your strategy.
And I was born in Jugoslavija.
One of the best maps I ever play.
Please do not change anything.
Congratilations for good work.
Have a nice time and a lot of luck Radosh

[smithdetlic]

If I may give some suggestions for this map. I love it, but you have missed some points:

1. In SFRJ, Kosovo and Vojvodina were provinces of Serbia (and what you named "Serbia" was "Inner Serbia"). You could put "greater" bonus for holding whole Serbia (Inner Serbia, Vojvodina and Kosovo)

2. There isn't river between Syrmia and Slavonia. River Danube and Tisa divide Vojvodina in 3 regions: Bačka (between Danube on west and south, Tisa on east and Hungarian border on north), Banat (between Tisa on north-west, Danube on south-west and south, Romanian border on east and Hungarian border on north) and Syrmia or Srem (between Danube on north and east, Croatian border on west and Sava river on south).
You could just put Danube and Sava as rivers and maybe Morava
Your division of Vojvodina is ok, but you have made few mistakes with bridges:
-Slavonia and Syrmia are bordering and that border should be crossable
-You should put Danube between Bačka, Syrmia and Banat with bridge only between Bačka and Syrmia
-There should be bridge between Slavonia and Bačka (or Novi Sad how you named it)
-There should be bridge between Syrmia and Belgrade as bridge "Gazela" is one of the most crossed bridges in Balkans (it connects Syrmia and rest of Serbia)
-There is a bridge between Belgrade and Banat, but you could eliminate it to keep game interesting

3. You divided Bosnia and Herzegovina as it is now divided (between Federation of BiH entity and Republic of Srpska entity). Until 1992. regions in B&H were a bit different. In my oppinion you should have made regions: Posavina (North BiH, by river Sava), Bosanska Krajina (western BiH), Cazinska Krajina (north-west of BiH, bordering Croatia), Podrinje (eastern BiH), Herzegovina (southern BiH) and Central Bosnia (perhaps dividing it into Tuzla and Sarajevo)... something like this map

4. Your region "Podrinje" should me renamed to "Mačva" or "Šumadija" if you extend it a bit more

Those are my suggestions, if it's not too late for editing the map