I'm going, going, back, back, to CC, CC

[Victor Sullivan]

VOL

Vomiting out loud?

-Sully

My very thought, Sully. Can anyone clarify?

Okay, so now mods are ganging up on pre-pubescent customers? What the hell guys? VOL is clearly like, 12. Just ignore him if he's being ridiculous. Don't bully the kid. Sure, mock his ideas, but don't mock him. Woodruff is the grown man who constantly bullies the kid, calling him names that one only calls human garbage. Why the f*ck are you joining in? How the f*ck is that acceptable mod behavior? Scratch that, how does any self-respecting adult do this?

I don't know for sure about Victor, but since I have gathered that he and I are about the same age, I was presuming that his was a simple question, born of ignorance. From my viewpoint, it certainly was. I intended no mockery. I honestly have no idea what VOL means here, and Victor's interpretation happened to be exactly what popped into my head. I try to keep current on acronyms like this (I recently discovered TL;DR), but there will always be a first contact experience. Sometimes these things go badly. That is part and parcel of a medium like forum posts, stripped as they are of the non-verbal cues which aid face-to-face communication. I suppose that Sully could have simply asked, "What does VOL mean?", but it is more fun to guess, and frankly, it seemed to fit the context.

As I type this, I am just now seeing Symmetry's post about ViperOverLord. Not sure how I didn't see that, or how I wasn't told more posts had been made. I may have preloaded the page, then wandered away and come back, I don't know. It was not my intent to mock that user.

So was Army of GOD trying to say that ViperOverLord was the user who was in the dispute with Woodruff?

As an aside, the fact that I am a Tech Team volunteer hardly qualifies my every post as a mod comment, especially in the off-topics forum currently known as Davy Jones' Locker.

Yeah, ender's right on point! Sorry, ViperOverLord (and pimpdave), I didn't mean anything if I was being offensive

-Sully

[ViperOverLord]

^^^
I never had any issues there. No worries.

[Victor Sullivan]

Thanks, VOL

-Sully

[BigBallinStalin]

Thanks, VOL

-Sully

What are you trying to imply with that grin?

[Victor Sullivan]

Thanks, VOL

-Sully

What are you trying to imply with that grin?

What are you trying to imply with that grin?



-Sully

[natty dread]

I don't really get any enjoyment at all out of it...I quite simply just don't care. If someone here is saying dumbass things, I'm going to tell them. There is a total of one person on this site (who never posts in the fora) that I actually know in real life, from my military days. His opinion of me is really the only one on this site that matters to me.

Let me ask you something Woodruff...

If none of our opinions matter to you, if you think so little of everyone on this site that you don't care what they think or how they feel about interacting with you... then why visit the forums at all? Wouldn't it be better frequenting some other forum, where you could interact with people that you find more agreeable?

As an ancient chinese proverb which I just made up says: If the company is not to your liking, it is best to change the clubhouse.

[Woodruff]

I don't really get any enjoyment at all out of it...I quite simply just don't care. If someone here is saying dumbass things, I'm going to tell them. There is a total of one person on this site (who never posts in the fora) that I actually know in real life, from my military days. His opinion of me is really the only one on this site that matters to me.

Let me ask you something Woodruff...
If none of our opinions matter to you, if you think so little of everyone on this site that you don't care what they think or how they feel about interacting with you... then why visit the forums at all? Wouldn't it be better frequenting some other forum, where you could interact with people that you find more agreeable?
As an ancient chinese proverb which I just made up says: If the company is not to your liking, it is best to change the clubhouse.

I'm a bit too...hmmm..."aggressively sure of myself" to really get along with any "forum group" regardless of location, so that's not really relevant. <chuckle>

But it's not to say that I don't get along with most of the fora-regulars...I believe I do.

In fact, there are very few who "I think so little of" among those I consider to be regular posters on this site (really only two come to mind, and anyone who has paid attention has a pretty good idea of who those two are).

Just because I don't care what you think of me doesn't mean we don't get along or that I think little of you. I'm just frankly not concerned with your opinion of me...that doesn't necessarily link up as a symptom of anything further than that. You're people on the internet somewhere, so why exactly WOULD your opinion matter that much to me?

As for why I'm here, it basically started because I was hanging around waiting for my turns during speed games and needed something to do...so I hung out in the fora. Sheer boredom. It probably still is, though I no longer play speed games.

[natty dread]

You're people on the internet somewhere, so why exactly WOULD your opinion matter that much to me?

This is the argument I don't understand. It's basically the same when people justify bad behaviour, racism, trolling etc. (not that I'm comparing what you're saying to any of those things) by simply saying "it's the internet", as if that should excuse anything...

I mean, somehow, when you start communicating over a global electronic network, suddenly all the social rules you follow in real life don't apply anymore.

Why is it that you can't have actual relations with people over the internet? Do you need to meet someone in person to care about their opinions? Does meeting someone in person somehow validate to you that they are a real, actual human and their opinions matter, and without it, they're just words on the monitor and you don't have to think of them as human beings?

I mean, if I have friends in real life, their opinion, what they think about me, matters to me. If I make friends over the internet, why wouldn't I care about their opinion about me just as much?

[pimpdave]

I guess Woodruff didn't think about it at all then. Bummer. I was honestly trying to give him a little insight, maybe help him out.

[PLAYER57832]

BES/captain crazy, the lion...
the not returning Dancing Mustard.

[BigBallinStalin]

ERB, marshall mathers, the fox...
the not returning Dangling Dungtard.

[eagleblade]

Krissan. He keeps failing at quitting Conquer Club

[Woodruff]

You're people on the internet somewhere, so why exactly WOULD your opinion matter that much to me?

This is the argument I don't understand. It's basically the same when people justify bad behaviour, racism, trolling etc. (not that I'm comparing what you're saying to any of those things) by simply saying "it's the internet", as if that should excuse anything...

Where did I use it to excuse anything at all? Did you read my post? I'm not justifying anything, I'm simply explaining why your opinion of me doesn't matter.

I mean, somehow, when you start communicating over a global electronic network, suddenly all the social rules you follow in real life don't apply anymore.

Who said the social rules don't apply? My point is that I don't particularly care about the repercussions because you don't mean anything personally to me. While it's possible to do so over the internet (I know there are some on this site who have done so), I have never made any of the particularly close connections on here that would lead to my caring about that, because it's not important to me that I do so...so I've never felt the need to try.

Why is it that you can't have actual relations with people over the internet? Do you need to meet someone in person to care about their opinions? Does meeting someone in person somehow validate to you that they are a real, actual human and their opinions matter, and without it, they're just words on the monitor and you don't have to think of them as human beings?

I've never suggested any of those things. I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't put words into my mouth.

I mean, if I have friends in real life, their opinion, what they think about me, matters to me. If I make friends over the internet, why wouldn't I care about their opinion about me just as much?

I would have to make friends over the internet first for this to apply. That's pretty much my entire point. At any rate, this is far from the point of the thread.

[Woodruff]

I guess Woodruff didn't think about it at all then. Bummer. I was honestly trying to give him a little insight, maybe help him out.

Of course! That must be the case! I just didn't think about it at all! Brilliant!

[natty dread]

Where did I use it to excuse anything at all? Did you read my post? I'm not justifying anything, I'm simply explaining why your opinion of me doesn't matter.

You seem angry. Did I say something that offended you?

Who said the social rules don't apply? My point is that I don't particularly care about the repercussions because you don't mean anything personally to me.

My point is you don't use the same social rules in the internet that you use in real life interactions with people. In real life, when you interact with people on a long term basis, have conversations with them, and do activities together, you eventually form an emotional bond and become friends. Something is apparently preventing you from doing this over the internet, for some reason?

While it's possible to do so over the internet (I know there are some on this site who have done so), I have never made any of the particularly close connections on here that would lead to my caring about that, because it's not important to me that I do so...so I've never felt the need to try.

Why not? You make friends in real life, so why not on the internet?

I've never suggested any of those things. I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't put words into my mouth.

I have never put words in your mouth. I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't suggest that I have.

At any rate, this is far from the point of the thread.

Maybe, but this is far more interesting than the actual point of the thread.

[Woodruff]

Where did I use it to excuse anything at all? Did you read my post? I'm not justifying anything, I'm simply explaining why your opinion of me doesn't matter.

You seem angry. Did I say something that offended you?

If you take that as "angry", you're definitely reading something into it that isn't there. What leads you to presume those questions are asked in anger?

Who said the social rules don't apply? My point is that I don't particularly care about the repercussions because you don't mean anything personally to me.

My point is you don't use the same social rules in the internet that you use in real life interactions with people. In real life, when you interact with people on a long term basis, have conversations with them, and do activities together, you eventually form an emotional bond and become friends. Something is apparently preventing you from doing this over the internet, for some reason?[/quote]

Yes...I've already covered that...I don't care. There isn't enough REAL interaction just through forum posts for an actual real friendship to form, as far as I'm concerned.

While it's possible to do so over the internet (I know there are some on this site who have done so), I have never made any of the particularly close connections on here that would lead to my caring about that, because it's not important to me that I do so...so I've never felt the need to try.

Why not? You make friends in real life, so why not on the internet? [/quote]

We've covered this already...in real life, there are far more meaningful interactions than there are over these fora (for instance). These fora provide one form of interaction. Games provide another form. That's pretty much the extent of the interactions unless you go seriously looking for more...which I don't bother doing.

I've never suggested any of those things. I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't put words into my mouth.

I have never put words in your mouth. I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't suggest that I have.[/quote]

Except that you did, quite clearly.

At any rate, this is far from the point of the thread.

Maybe, but this is far more interesting than the actual point of the thread.[/quote]

Well...yes, I agree. But that's not saying much. <chuckle>

[natty dread]

If you take that as "angry", you're definitely reading something into it that isn't there. What leads you to presume those questions are asked in anger?

Maybe not angry as such, but annoyed? Vexed? Frustrated?

Yes...I've already covered that...I don't care. There isn't enough REAL interaction just through forum posts for an actual real friendship to form, as far as I'm concerned.

What would you classify as "real" interaction? Does it require face-to-face contact?

We've covered this already...in real life, there are far more meaningful interactions than there are over these fora (for instance). These fora provide one form of interaction. Games provide another form. That's pretty much the extent of the interactions unless you go seriously looking for more...which I don't bother doing.

But why do you deem the interaction you have on the forums less meaningful? That's the point I'm trying to find out here.

Except that you did, quite clearly.

Asking questions does not qualify as "putting words in someone's mouth" in my book. Does it in yours?

Well...yes, I agree. But that's not saying much. <chuckle>

That's ok, I don't have anything better to do.

[Woodruff]

If you take that as "angry", you're definitely reading something into it that isn't there. What leads you to presume those questions are asked in anger?

Maybe not angry as such, but annoyed? Vexed? Frustrated?

Not at all. They were serious questions. That you never bothered to answer, I should point out.

Yes...I've already covered that...I don't care. There isn't enough REAL interaction just through forum posts for an actual real friendship to form, as far as I'm concerned.

What would you classify as "real" interaction? Does it require face-to-face contact?

Not at all, necessarily. "Real" interaction for ME (this is surely different for different people) would involve meaningful exchanges. What is meaningful? Well, more than just arguing over the fora, certainly...that's pretty meaningless for the most part. Learning about one another on a very personal level, helping one another out in difficult situations...that sort of thing.

We've covered this already...in real life, there are far more meaningful interactions than there are over these fora (for instance). These fora provide one form of interaction. Games provide another form. That's pretty much the extent of the interactions unless you go seriously looking for more...which I don't bother doing.

But why do you deem the interaction you have on the forums less meaningful? That's the point I'm trying to find out here.

Because it's not important in any real scheme outside of being a salve for boredom.

Except that you did, quite clearly.

Asking questions does not qualify as "putting words in someone's mouth" in my book. Does it in yours?

The implications behind those questions certainly do, yes. The specific word choices that you made in those questions changed the impact of the questions to be far different than the statements that I had made.

[natty dread]

Not at all. They were serious questions. That you never bothered to answer, I should point out.

It seemed your questions were more of a rhetoric nature so I didn't see it necessary to answer them. But if you insist: You didn't use an excuse anywhere nor did I claim that you did. Yes, I read your post.

Not at all, necessarily. "Real" interaction for ME (this is surely different for different people) would involve meaningful exchanges. What is meaningful? Well, more than just arguing over the fora, certainly...that's pretty meaningless for the most part. Learning about one another on a very personal level, helping one another out in difficult situations...that sort of thing.

So, is there something preventing you from having that kind of interaction here? It seems a lot of other people do... for example, people in clans or other usergroups, people with common interests... a lot of cases can be found on the forums of this. So I guess what I'm asking is, are you intentionally keeping a certain distance to the people you interact with on these forums, and if so, why?

Because it's not important in any real scheme outside of being a salve for boredom.

Well, do your real life interactions with people always have to be important or have a rational purpose? Don't you have any friends you're just friends with because you have fun together?

The implications behind those questions certainly do, yes. The specific word choices that you made in those questions changed the impact of the questions to be far different than the statements that I had made.

How does me asking a question have an implication on you? I would think only your answer would have any such implications. After all, all you had to do was answer "no, that's not the case" and any "implication" within those questions would be moot.

[Woodruff]

Not at all. They were serious questions. That you never bothered to answer, I should point out.

It seemed your questions were more of a rhetoric nature so I didn't see it necessary to answer them. But if you insist: You didn't use an excuse anywhere nor did I claim that you did. Yes, I read your post.

You say I didn't excuse anything, yet you clearly used the term "justify" in your statement, as if I were trying to do exactly that. Unless you believe there is a significant difference between "excuse" and justify".

Not at all, necessarily. "Real" interaction for ME (this is surely different for different people) would involve meaningful exchanges. What is meaningful? Well, more than just arguing over the fora, certainly...that's pretty meaningless for the most part. Learning about one another on a very personal level, helping one another out in difficult situations...that sort of thing.

So, is there something preventing you from having that kind of interaction here?

Yes, I don't intentionally open myself up to those opportunities, nor do I care to do so.

It seems a lot of other people do... for example, people in clans or other usergroups, people with common interests... a lot of cases can be found on the forums of this. So I guess what I'm asking is, are you intentionally keeping a certain distance to the people you interact with on these forums, and if so, why?

I intentionally keep a certain distance to the people I interact with in real life, as well, until I know them very well. It's not an unusual thing at all. You seem to be trying very hard to find something interesting here when nothing interesting exists at all.

Because it's not important in any real scheme outside of being a salve for boredom.

Well, do your real life interactions with people always have to be important or have a rational purpose? Don't you have any friends you're just friends with because you have fun together?

Your definition of "good friend" is obviously different than mine. In my view, a "good friend" is someone that I can count on when I need to, regardless of the situation. I don't make friends with people lightly, nor do I care to do so.

The implications behind those questions certainly do, yes. The specific word choices that you made in those questions changed the impact of the questions to be far different than the statements that I had made.

How does me asking a question have an implication on you?

I do certainly hope you're more aware than that. It's a very common tactic.

[natty dread]

You say I didn't excuse anything, yet you clearly used the term "justify" in your statement, as if I were trying to do exactly that. Unless you believe there is a significant difference between "excuse" and justify".

Also contained within my statement was the disclaimer:

(not that I'm comparing what you're saying to any of those things)

Which should clearly indicate that what I said about justifying things applies to the situations which I described, not to you.

Yes, I don't intentionally open myself up to those opportunities, nor do I care to do so.

But the question is, why not?

I intentionally keep a certain distance to the people I interact with in real life, as well, until I know them very well. It's not an unusual thing at all. You seem to be trying very hard to find something interesting here when nothing interesting exists at all.

But that's not the same thing at all. Here, you've been on these forums for several years. That would seem to be plenty of time and opportunity to get to know some people well enough that you wouldn't need to keep a distance to them. It seems more like you don't want to get to know people very well at all here.

I'm also not trying very hard to do anything. I'm having a normal discussion, because the subject honestly interests me. You also keep responding which leads me to assume you don't mind the discussion either. I don't seek to judge or blame you, people all have different boundaries and they should all be respected. I just find it very interesting how differently people see interaction in a virtual setting.

Your definition of "good friend" is obviously different than mine. In my view, a "good friend" is someone that I can count on when I need to, regardless of the situation. I don't make friends with people lightly, nor do I care to do so.

And that's ok, everyone has different definitions of friendship. However, is it not possible to have different degrees of friendship? At one end of the spectrum you have you BFF:s which you can trust your life on in any situation, and then you have some good friends which you would maybe borrow your car to but wouldn't necessarily confide all your deepest secrets, and then at the other end you have more casual acquaintances, with which you just have some mutual respect, and share some common interests, maybe hang out once in a while.

I do certainly hope you're more aware than that. It's a very common tactic.

I don't do "tactics", I just say what I think.

[Woodruff]

I intentionally keep a certain distance to the people I interact with in real life, as well, until I know them very well. It's not an unusual thing at all. You seem to be trying very hard to find something interesting here when nothing interesting exists at all.

But that's not the same thing at all.

Of course it is...it's precisely the same thing. I keep people at arms length until I know them very well, which obviously makes it difficult to get to know people at that level.

Here, you've been on these forums for several years. That would seem to be plenty of time and opportunity to get to know some people well enough that you wouldn't need to keep a distance to them.

You don't seem to understand...as I previously said, online there simply aren't the vast number of different opportunities to "wade in deep" that there are in real life. In real life, opportunities to help people out (for instance) occur all the time, which lead to getting to know one another very well (over a great length of time). I talk to people outside of the fora (through PM) from time to time, but I don't recall any of those conversations being about anything that was actually important (other than my one friend who does frequent this site). There aren't nearly the level of opportunities occurring online. I'm really quite boring.

It seems more like you don't want to get to know people very well at all here.

It only "seems that way"? I believe I've stated as much a couple of times in this thread, actually. Like I said, I tend to keep people at arms length...it's my nature.

I'm also not trying very hard to do anything. I'm having a normal discussion, because the subject honestly interests me. You also keep responding which leads me to assume you don't mind the discussion either.

No, I don't mind the discussion at all...I'd have sent you a PM or something if I did.

I don't seek to judge or blame you, people all have different boundaries and they should all be respected. I just find it very interesting how differently people see interaction in a virtual setting.

I don't believe I view interactions in the virtual setting any differently than I view interactions in the physical setting, honestly. It's just that there are far more opportunities to get to know folks "away from the fora, as it were" in the physical setting.

Your definition of "good friend" is obviously different than mine. In my view, a "good friend" is someone that I can count on when I need to, regardless of the situation. I don't make friends with people lightly, nor do I care to do so.

And that's ok, everyone has different definitions of friendship. However, is it not possible to have different degrees of friendship?

Sure, it's absolutely possible...though I don't really bother with that. I don't really see the point. I have my friends (which would equate to deep, life-long friendships) and I have acquaintances.

And I suppose I have students, which do fall into a separate category in my mind, because to be a good teacher, you MUST form relationships with your students...otherwise you're just spinning your wheels with most kids. But that's not really friendship or an acquaintance (because you do get to know most of your students far too well to consider them acquaintances).

At one end of the spectrum you have you BFF:s which you can trust your life on in any situation, and then you have some good friends which you would maybe borrow your car to but wouldn't necessarily confide all your deepest secrets

I wouldn't even loan my car to my son or daughter, unless it were a very serious emergency...and they obviously fall within the range of my close friends.

and then at the other end you have more casual acquaintances, with which you just have some mutual respect, and share some common interests, maybe hang out once in a while.

I "hang out" with my wife almost entirely, though we do occasionally get together with our close friends...and that's pretty much it.

[pimpdave]

I do certainly hope you're more aware than that. It's a very common tactic.

Wait, hang on. Is there a coordinated gang terrorizing you on the internet, Woodruff? What other tactics do they use?

[natty dread]

Of course it is...it's precisely the same thing. I keep people at arms length until I know them very well, which obviously makes it difficult to get to know people at that level.

Yeah, it seems you do.

You don't seem to understand...as I previously said, online there simply aren't the vast number of different opportunities to "wade in deep" that there are in real life. In real life, opportunities to help people out (for instance) occur all the time, which lead to getting to know one another very well (over a great length of time). I talk to people outside of the fora (through PM) from time to time, but I don't recall any of those conversations being about anything that was actually important (other than my one friend who does frequent this site). There aren't nearly the level of opportunities occurring online. I'm really quite boring.

Well, that's fine. Everyone decides the level of participation they want to invest in any social interaction. However, I think there are such opportunities even in an online setting like CC, it's more of a matter whether you want to pursue those opportunities or not.

Sure, it's absolutely possible...though I don't really bother with that. I don't really see the point. I have my friends (which would equate to deep, life-long friendships) and I have acquaintances.

Yeah, I can see that. One problem with online interaction is that you only get to see the side of a person that they're willing to show, most of the time. But then, that can be true of many other social settings as well... you have to actively & mutually want to get to know a person before you can really get to know them.

I don't know, I guess the thing I was going with this was to offer the suggestion that maybe if you tried to get to know some people a bit more here in CC, maybe your interactions in CC could be more meaningful. But if that's not something you want to bother with, I understand and that's fine too.

I wouldn't even loan my car to my son or daughter, unless it were a very serious emergency...and they obviously fall within the range of my close friends.

Must be a good car

I "hang out" with my wife almost entirely, though we do occasionally get together with our close friends...and that's pretty much it.

Yeah, I can dig that. I spend most of the time with my gf as well, although we have some mutual friends that we see now and then. I don't have many personal friends these days... My friends are all either dead or have moved too far away so I don't get to see them much...

[Woodruff]

I wouldn't even loan my car to my son or daughter, unless it were a very serious emergency...and they obviously fall within the range of my close friends.

Must be a good car

I wish! <laughing> It's a 2006 Toyota Corolla. My reasons have nothing to do with the car, and nothing to do with trust...it has everything to do with car insurance and those potential ramifications.

I "hang out" with my wife almost entirely, though we do occasionally get together with our close friends...and that's pretty much it.

Yeah, I can dig that. I spend most of the time with my gf as well, although we have some mutual friends that we see now and then. I don't have many personal friends these days... My friends are all either dead or have moved too far away so I don't get to see them much...

Same here, since almost all of mine and my wife's (that aren't family) were made while I was in the military. And we're very strongly both "home bodies", so that contributes to it too.